Why was Vijay banned?

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Woods
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Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Woods » 2022-09-29, 20:54

Am I the only one here to think that banning long-time users for whatever reason is not going to do anything good to the forum?

I myself was dragged into an argument with Vijay, an not only, at some point, and wasn't happy about it - and so what? After everyone insisted on their point of view for a few days, we were friendly again.

I haven't read the discussions where you have insulted each other or whatever happened, but what do we get from someone enforcing authority or rules of conduct on another member? Has he ever done anything that absolutely required the ban - endangered anyone's safety, grossly smirched someone's dignity to the point where the presence of the offender was no longer tolerable?

I have mentioned several times that in my opinion some members lack basic debating culture; and yes, I know I have been accused of the same, but here's what I mean: if they can't understand, or disagree with another member's point of view, or are unable to convince them, they become hateful. I could see where that could have gone; but isn't banning someone you've discussed with on different subjects over many years the ultimate form of disrespect? Is it necessary, and isn't it yet another form of weakness and inability to solve the problem graciously, which would only deprive the forum of that member's contribution?

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Re: ban policy

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-09-30, 0:41

I changed the subject heading because I'm not answering the question you asked in the subject line, but, I think this more general information about bans and banned users might be helpful.

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Woods
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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Woods » 2022-10-26, 9:53

Do you think that me checking out the rule which the moderators based themselves on has anything to do with my point that banning a long-term member with a lot of contributions because of some stupid quarrel makes the forum a less fruitful place?

Very strange that nobody involved in the ban actually said anything.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-10-26, 14:07

Woods wrote:Do you think that me checking out the rule which the moderators based themselves on has anything to do with my point that banning a long-term member with a lot of contributions because of some stupid quarrel makes the forum a less fruitful place?

The relevance was that bans are based on more specific things than "because of some stupid quarrel". Users are not banned for simply disagreeing over things. The policy explains that.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Woods » 2022-10-26, 19:49

Linguaphile wrote:
Woods wrote:Do you think that me checking out the rule which the moderators based themselves on has anything to do with my point that banning a long-term member with a lot of contributions because of some stupid quarrel makes the forum a less fruitful place?

The relevance was that bans are based on more specific things than "because of some stupid quarrel". Users are not banned for simply disagreeing over things. The policy explains that.

You're missing my point, my friend. Otherwise I perfectly understand what you're saying - he probably insulted someone or did something else justifying a ban. Nothing to do with my point though, albeit I've called my thread "Why was Vijay banned."

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Antea » 2022-10-26, 20:15

I don't know what happened, but I hope the misunderstanding will be quickly fixed and forgotten. Communication on internet can be complicated sometimes.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-10-26, 22:47

I don't know of anything currently happening that is related to this topic. The only thing I know about happened something like six months ago and although there are details I'm not privy to, I thought we'd all moved on, any bans from that time had ended, etc. (That's why I posted the link to the banned users list and the link to the policy about two-week bans etc.) With that in mind I'm not really sure why it is being brought up six months later. I guess I am still missing the point, or if something happened more recently, I missed that too.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Woods » 2022-10-27, 7:22

The bans have ended, but my impression is that some people were offended by the bans and will never return to the forum. Like even though I wouldn't insult anybody, if somebody banned me after discussing different topics for many years, I would probably feel that way. So I prompted the moderators to think about it, but they just ignored my point. Either way you're not the one who caused that, so it was up to someone else to answer.

Linguaphile wrote:With that in mind I'm not really sure why it is being brought up six months later.

It just came to my mind. I looked at one of the forums where Vijay had written like a hundred times and realised he probably never would again because some discussion got heated, they couldn't sort it out and one of the moderators was like "let me ban that person."

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Naava » 2022-10-27, 10:07

Woods wrote:So I prompted the moderators to think about it, but they just ignored my point.

Hi, just a quick note - since you've felt like you've been ignored, I want to let you know I've seen this thread and will write an answer to you, but unfortunately it has to wait a bit. I'm currently very hungry and need to go make some lunch before I go to work. I'll see if I have time to sit down at the computer later today, but if not, I'll answer you at the weekend (unless other moderators have time to answer before that, of course). :)

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-10-27, 17:32

Woods wrote:The bans have ended, but my impression is that some people were offended by the bans and will never return to the forum.

Maybe talk to those people directly rather than speculating on the causes of their motivations?

I'm in contact with Vijay. This isn't the only online forum he's stopped frequenting. He's quit others where he was never banned. I won't say the ban had no effect on his decision, but it wasn't the only factor. If you want to know more about his reasons, I suggest reaching out to him.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby vijayjohn » 2022-10-27, 22:48

Hi, everyone! I haven't been posting on this forum for a long time in part because I'm trying to start my own business. I refuse to say anything more about it. If you don't already know the rest of the reason why I haven't been around, I'll probably never feel comfortable telling you anyway. Please leave me alone.

Currently, I don't have the energy or desire to be as active on this forum as I used to be, but I might still post on occasion such as right now.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Woods » 2022-10-29, 8:24

vijayjohn wrote:Hi, everyone! I haven't been posting on this forum for a long time in part because I'm trying to start my own business. I refuse to say anything more about it. If you don't already know the rest of the reason why I haven't been around, I'll probably never feel comfortable telling you anyway. Please leave me alone.

Currently, I don't have the energy or desire to be as active on this forum as I used to be, but I might still post on occasion such as right now.

No probs, bro - all the best and lots of luck with the business!

I just looked at your many posts and had seen that thing about the ban, so I asked myself why they would have to ban you. Strangely, it doesn't look like anyone got my point; but that happens a lot, so maybe I will stick to purely factual linguistics when I visit UniLang.

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Re: Why was Vijay banned?

Postby Naava » 2022-11-01, 17:05

Naava wrote:
Woods wrote:So I prompted the moderators to think about it, but they just ignored my point.

Hi, just a quick note - since you've felt like you've been ignored, I want to let you know I've seen this thread and will write an answer to you, but unfortunately it has to wait a bit. I'm currently very hungry and need to go make some lunch before I go to work. I'll see if I have time to sit down at the computer later today, but if not, I'll answer you at the weekend (unless other moderators have time to answer before that, of course). :)


Hi Woods, and thanks for your patience! I'm writing this answer on behalf of the whole admin team, since you addressed your questions to us all.

Firstly, you said you had felt we were ignoring your post. I'm sorry for this, and I hope you believe me when I say none of us wanted that. We all understood your post the same way as Linguaphile. We had nothing to add to what she had posted to you as an answer, and since you didn't ask for clarification or in any other way show that it hadn't been what you had meant, we thought you had received the answer you were looking for. Since you've now said that wasn't the case, I'm writing this post that hopefully will answer your original questions. If it doesn't, please don't hesitate to ask further questions.

Secondly, you asked about Vijay's ban. Unfortunately, we cannot comment on individual cases. We sometimes receive information that is not publicly viewable on forum to other members, and since we do not want to betray people's trust by publishing what they've told us privately, we've decided that we will not discuss any case - not Vijay's or any other - in public.

So, although I can't talk about individual cases, I can describe to you what we do on a general level. When someone reports a post or a PM, or when one of the admins sees a post that might be against the forum policy, we let the others know about it. We then discuss it together to see if the policy has been broken, and if yes, how we should react. We check the policy for what should be done and go through the pros and cons of letting it be, reminding, warning, or banning a member. For example, if the forum policy states that breaking the rule X may result in an immediate ban, we then discuss what kind of arguments there are for warning a member instead of a ban, and what kind of arguments there are for banning the member. After this, we vote, and only if a majority is in favour of the decision, it will be implemented. We may also lock or hide posts or threads from view for the duration of our discussion if needed, and if the posts or thread are found to be breaking the forum rules, they will stay locked or hidden.

I want to emphasise that no one is allowed to ban a member on their own. You must always consult others first, and no matter how much you would want to ban someone, if a majority of the other admins do not agree with you, the member won't be banned. The only exception to this is spammers, who would fill up the forum with hundreds of spam links if they were not banned as soon as they were caught.

Lastly, if you - or anyone else - would want to start a discussion on forum policy or ban policy in order to update it, we are always ready to welcome and encourage it. The times change and the forum changes, so it is only natural that the rules would also be changed eventually. We can arrange, for example, polls to see what the members think similar to what was done with the previous TAC forum. However, I hope we can keep the focus on the future of the forum when discussing the policy instead of talking about individuals and the reminders, warnings, or bans that they've received. I understand that sometimes the wish to change things stems from what has happened in the past to you or someone else, but this could easily derail the discussion and scare off people who were not involved in particular cases but might also want to say something about potential changes to the forum policy.

Hope this helps, and if you feel I missed something you wanted to get an answer to, please let me know!


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