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Woods wrote:Well, I want to make it clear that it's Taiwanese I'm interested in. Many languages are part of something, but have their entries (including with far fewer speakers).
PS Did you move to Taiwan now???
vijayjohn wrote:Woods wrote:Did you move to Taiwan now???
Almost a year ago. I'm moving back in a little over a month.
Woods wrote:I personally had to google Minnan when you mentioned it to confirm that it's Southern Min. And then I don't even know if all the Southern Min dialects are mutually intelligible. Also I would associate the term with dialects spoken in the People's Republic of China and not in the Republic of China. So I think the Taiwanese version - as a language spoken by 70% of the population of another country - totally deserves its own version.
Would you like to share what you are doing there?
It's a great place!
And did you learn any Taiwanese?
vijayjohn wrote:Woods wrote:I personally had to google Minnan when you mentioned it to confirm that it's Southern Min. And then I don't even know if all the Southern Min dialects are mutually intelligible. Also I would associate the term with dialects spoken in the People's Republic of China and not in the Republic of China. So I think the Taiwanese version - as a language spoken by 70% of the population of another country - totally deserves its own version.
I mean, OldBoring's profile says he's native in "Wu," so...
vijayjohn wrote:Woods wrote:It's a great place!
What makes you think so? Have you been here before?
vijayjohn wrote:And did you learn any Taiwanese?
Not really, I barely even hear any Taiwanese, and even when people do speak it, they seem to code-switch with Mandarin.
OldBoring wrote:There isn't Taiwanese Mandarin on here either: so people choose Mandarin with traditional script.
OldBoring wrote:There is a shortcut to imply that you're learning Taiwanese Minnan/Hokkien: you can set Minnan and Traditional script.
OldBoring wrote:Keep in mind that if you learn Minnan through Pe̍h-ōe-jī, this writing system is basically not used by anyone anymore, except a minority of Christians.
Woods wrote:Doesn't matter - I think nobody would disagree that it makes perfect sense to have Taiwanese Hokkien (Tâi-gí / 台語) in list the list of options.
As a moderator, can you request it from those who can implement it?
Does that school require some diploma or can an amateur like me with good English and teaching skills get a place someday? And does it pay well?
vijayjohn wrote:And did you learn any Taiwanese?
Not really, I barely even hear any Taiwanese, and even when people do speak it, they seem to code-switch with Mandarin.
Really? Well, I don't even speak Mandarin so it was kind of surreal when I was there. Almost all the time I had a friend with me who speaks Mandarin though, so she was my personal interpreter. Before I go next time I need to learn either Mandarin or Taiwanese though. I don't know which one will be easier - Mandarin is insane with all the characters, whereas for Taiwanese I haven't found that many ressources. But it could be a shortcut if I learn it through Pe̍h-ōe-jī and skip the characters. Don't know if it will work for other than casual conversations though?
What makes people say that 70% of the population speaks Tâi-gí then?
I can't tell if what I heard was it or Mandarin, cause as a person who speaks neither, they sound similar to me - and they did so even more back then.
vijayjohn wrote:Woods wrote:Doesn't matter - I think nobody would disagree that it makes perfect sense to have Taiwanese Hokkien (Tâi-gí / 台語) in list the list of options.
Okay, but I think it would make just as much sense to have Qingtianese and Wenzhounese given that one of our most active users is native(ish) in both.
vijayjohn wrote:You don't have to be a moderator just to request that. You can ask for it yourself here.
vijayjohn wrote:For that matter, you could just learn Mandarin with Pinyin and skip the characters, too.
vijayjohn wrote:People will probably understand both Taiwanese and Mandarin, but IME they use Mandarin by default with everyone, and Taiwanese seem to be pretty shocked at the idea of a foreigner speaking Taiwanese whereas a foreigner speaking Mandarin does not have this effect at all. I've heard that the extent to which you hear Taiwanese depends on where exactly in Taiwan you are and it even varies between different parts of the same city.Woods wrote:What makes people say that 70% of the population speaks Tâi-gí then?
People can speak it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they actually do speak it in practice. I think it's only slightly less endangered than the various language varieties in China.
Woods wrote:Taiwan is a country.
It has 20+ million inhabitants.
That makes it special.
The linguistic situation in Mainland China is a lot more diverse and complex.
Don't we have Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian, if they're all supposed to be Serbo-Croatian?
Also there's the band Chthonic which gives me motivation to learn Taiwanese since it's my favourite band that sings in a Sinitic language!
But what about the future - do you think they'll make more effort to revive the language?
vijayjohn wrote:The linguistic situation in Taiwan is a lot more diverse and complex than you seem to be making it out to be. There's a lot more to Taiwan than just Mandarin and Taiwanese; you have Hakka, plus all kinds of other varieties of Chinese imported from the mainland (just like Taiwanese and Hakka were, incidentally), and you have all the indigenous Austronesian languages
vijayjohn wrote:North Korea has more (and is universally recognized as a country). Does that mean we should have a "North Korean" and "South Korean" instead of just "Korean," too?
vijayjohn wrote:Taiwan is still not even fully recognized as a country by its own closest allies, its official name is still the "Republic of China,"
vijayjohn wrote:Oh, and also the fact that the government is trying to make English an official language!
Woods wrote:But the most widely-known Astronesian language has 20 000 speakers, Hakka has 2 million and Tâi-gí has 16 million.
Uh? They're mutually intelligible and practically the same. But yeah - why not, if somebody wants to have the distinction? I see "American English" in your profile - shouldn't that be unified with all other kinds of?
vijayjohn wrote:Taiwan is still not even fully recognized as a country by its own closest allies, its official name is still the "Republic of China,"
Yes. Shame on the US, and the rest of the world.
vijayjohn wrote:Oh, and also the fact that the government is trying to make English an official language!
Really? How is that going to work?
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