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Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 13:33
by Linguaphile
Luís wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:- Uralic languages [excluding Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, and Saami]


Looking at the poll results so far (and there are two of them) people seem to want to merge Sami with other minority Uralic languages, though. No votes for "No: keep the Saami forum as it is" in any of the two polls.

I think we should probably start with the easy stuff (e.g. renaming the Creole Languages forum) and then deal with forums in which there are polls currently going on (Sami, Hebrew, Georgian).

We also need to identify all threads that need to be moved (if any).

As far as identifying threads that would need to be moved to the Uralic forum, we have been searching for them and h34 has done a terrific job of compiling them into a list. These are the ones we've found so far. The only two threads I'm aware of (so far) that are not on the list are the Uralic Music Thread which was created after the last update of the list, and the UL Uralic Café which is the thread the list itself is on.
The languages that say "own forum" in h34's list should be left as they are unless the poll results/final decision etc. determine that things should be merged. The list itself is not intended to express a position on that, it's just stating the current situation (that they currently do have their own forum).
Speaking of polls, some people have made comments along the lines of "if I'd known X, I would have voted Y." Remember that you can change your vote if something has made you change your opinion. The polls are still open. My opinion is still the same, but I can see that a few people have changed their votes [note that I don't mean that I know how any particular person has voted, I just mean that some options have gained votes while others have lost votes], so this is just a reminder to the rest of you in case anyone didn't realize you could change your vote if you want to. (And I'm with Luís in terms of not being sure why the second Sámi/Saami poll was created.)

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 13:49
by Luís
księżycowy wrote:Not to mention activity is very difficult to predict, as Linguoboy pointed out.


Interest level might be a better indicator (although equally subjective). For instance, there are several people interested in Uralic languages, so a new forum probably makes sense. On the other hand, I don't remember anyone who's been learning or posting about Mongolian recently (though I might be wrong), so it would probably make more sense to wait and create such a forum only when there are enough people interested in learning it.

Also, group forums can have their advantages too. For instance, most people who post in the AAPL or NAIL forums aren't necessarily interested in the same languages. If everything was separated by language (or language family) there would probably be much less interaction between users.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 13:59
by księżycowy
Another good point.

As much as I see good reason to split up the NAIL forum (for example :whistle: ), I do worry about interaction.

Everyone that frequents my forum has a different interest area.

Idk. :hmm:

If we were to split this forums up, maybe we could have a general forum too? But then again the question would be, why have both. Idk. It's kind of a rock and a hard place in my eyes.

That reminds me, I was going to suggest keeping a general forum for the smaller languages/language families that didn't fit into Vijay's scheme above. I don't know if that could lead to some general threads and general interaction. :hmm: :hmm:

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 14:08
by Luís
księżycowy wrote:That reminds me, I was going to suggest keeping a general forum for the smaller languages/language families that didn't fit into Vijay's scheme above. I don't know if that could lead to some general threads and general interaction. :hmm: :hmm:


Isn't that basically the Other Languages / "Trash Can" forum? :P

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 14:11
by księżycowy
I mean like an "Other North Americans" subforum or something like that, so not as bad as a Trash Can subforum. :P

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 23:16
by vijayjohn
I meant to imply such general forums in my proposal; that's why I didn't suggest getting rid of existing wide-ranging forums (like the NAIL forum).
Aurinĭa wrote:Furthermore, the more inactive and dead subforums there are, the more inactive the forum as a whole will appear, even if the overall level of activity doesn't go down. Such a forum seems less likely to tempt potential new users into registering and becoming active.

While I do think new subforums probably wouldn't be very active, I find this argument unconvincing. To me, at least, the only other people who have expressed an opinion so far seem less concerned about how much activity each subforum has and more concerned about making subforums more representative of the world's languages. If long-term forum activity really was the major concern, then there would probably only be about three subforums: one for Portuguese, one for Spanish, and one for everything else. Even the English forum is not as active as the Portuguese or Spanish ones.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 23:20
by księżycowy
vijayjohn wrote:I meant to imply such general forums in my proposal; that's why I didn't suggest getting rid of existing wide-ranging forums (like the NAIL forum).

Ah, I see. I didn't think I read that, so maybe I just inferred that you meant the opposite. Sorry.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-12, 23:40
by vijayjohn
No worries. Like I said earlier, it's easy to get lost in this thread. :)

EDIT: Also, to be fair, the way I phrased it was pretty confusing (and I think I was kind of afraid of that while I was writing it :para:). Btw I actually didn't forget Eskimo-Aleut. Eskimo-Aleut is pretty small, albeit well-known.

EDIT2: Late, but I think I should point something out:
linguoboy wrote:
księżycowy wrote:What do you suggest we do with the "Other Languages" section (which I affectionately call the Trash Bin) then? Nothing? Or make a shit ton of subforums? (Maybe I'm misreading you?)

So it's basically a discussion about how to organise the trash bin that existing subfora are getting dragged into?

More like a discussion about how to organize the trash bin that's used for anything that doesn't already have a subforum to go into (pace Albanian).

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-13, 8:40
by Antea
I am also lost in the thread. I don't know anymore in which poll I have voted, if the poll in this thread is a new one or the "right" one, If I have to vote another time, and in this case, if I have to chose the "let the Sami forum as it is" or the "other option" in order to vote for the creation of a new Uralic forum, independent of the Sami forum :hmm:

Regarding with the activity of new created forums, I don't know what to say. I am now interested in Uralic languages, but as they aren't obviously my mother tongue, I only can take part in them in vocabulary games, or in sharing music or grammar links. I cannot be as active as in other forums (like correcting grammar, vocabulary, engaging in written conversation), because I don't have the capacity to do so in these Uralic languages.

Moreover, people can have now an interest in them, but you cannot foresee how many time this interest will last :hmm: I don't know, I just think that making them more visible could be a positive thing for them to become more active.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-13, 13:19
by księżycowy
vijayjohn wrote:No worries. Like I said earlier, it's easy to get lost in this thread. :)

EDIT: Also, to be fair, the way I phrased it was pretty confusing (and I think I was kind of afraid of that while I was writing it :para:). Btw I actually didn't forget Eskimo-Aleut. Eskimo-Aleut is pretty small, albeit well-known.

Small or not, it does tend to be one of the hotter linguistic groups in my subforum.

At any rate, I think I'll start a poll to test the waters for this kind of idea.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-14, 1:34
by Linguaphile
Antea wrote:I am also lost in the thread. I don't know anymore in which poll I have voted, if the poll in this thread is a new one or the "right" one, If I have to vote another time, and in this case, if I have to chose the "let the Sami forum as it is" or the "other option" in order to vote for the creation of a new Uralic forum, independent of the Sami forum :hmm:

If you have already voted, the vote you cast should have its circle filled in with a black dot.
However, if you want to make sure, you can always click on "submit vote" again (select the choice you want to make if it isn't the one that is already selected!). It only lets your vote count once, so clicking "submit vote" multiple times just allows you to change your vote if you want to (or, in the case of not being sure if you have voted or not, to make sure your vote was counted). Whatever choice you make last is the one that "counts".
(p.s. Other than the polls, I'm pretty lost on this thread too. But I'm pretty sure I understand the polls.)

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 3:53
by vijayjohn
atalarikt wrote:It was a previous suggestion from Johanna. Should I add the thread from the Sami subforum instead? Maybe Vijay can redirect his vote and opinion there. (Hopefully you don't mind doing so, Vijay! :oops: )

Done!
księżycowy wrote:I notice, by the way Vijay, that you didn't break up the South Asian or South East Asian forums. :whistle:

That's because neither South Asia nor Southeast Asia is anywhere near as diverse as North America or, God forbid, Central and South America (that's probably even more diverse than Papua New Guinea!). :P

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 8:42
by księżycowy
You don't want to see it split between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian? I though we were gunning for linguistic groupings here. All the better if it's not as diverse. That just means less new subforums, right?

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 9:57
by Saim
I was thinking maybe we should mandate language tags for the titles of threads of multi-language subforums? WordReference does this in its Indo-Iranian subforum, where you see threads with [Urdu], [Persian], [Punjabi], etc... it makes it much easier to sort through. If it's not immediately apparent from the thread titles what language they're about (especially if they're in a non-Latin script), this actually discourages activity.

Like, I understand making things simpler, especially if these subforums are not hugely active. But there must be a way to acheive that without making activity decrease even further.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 11:52
by Car
I definitely agree there.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 12:17
by vijayjohn
księżycowy wrote:You don't want to see it split between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian? I though we were gunning for linguistic groupings here. All the better if it's not as diverse. That just means less new subforums, right?

Well, it means fewer new subforums out of that forum, but on top of the many subforums that would come out of NAILs and CSAILs and Papuan.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 12:24
by księżycowy
I will say that so far, we may not have to worry about the NAIL forum. Most people voting seem to be in favor of keeping it as is.

Speaking as both a user and the mod, I am in favor of splitting up the NAIL forum. But I can see the logic in wanting to keep it as one subforum.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 12:46
by atalarikt
vijayjohn wrote:
atalarikt wrote:It was a previous suggestion from Johanna. Should I add the thread from the Sami subforum instead? Maybe Vijay can redirect his vote and opinion there. (Hopefully you don't mind doing so, Vijay! :oops: )

Done!

Thanks! I've edited the starter post here.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 15:02
by Luís
Car wrote:I definitely agree there.


I think there's an extension that allows users to easily add and manage tags. I can look into it.

Re: Language Subforums Management Discussion 2018

Posted: 2018-03-15, 17:43
by Car
Luís wrote:
Car wrote:I definitely agree there.


I think there's an extension that allows users to easily add and manage tags. I can look into it.

Is an extension for that really necesssary, though? Sure, if it's no big deal, feel free to add it, but I was thinking about doing it manually.