Language List

[Karavinka]

Minnan for Taiwanese makes some sense as Taiwanese is not the only variant of Minnan.

Whereas we don't have the same problem with Cantonese. Cantonese is fine IMO.

Isn't the same true of Cantonese though? Granted, it's the most common one and sometimes the name Cantonese is used for the entire group, but technically Cantonese is just one variety of Yue. There is Guangzhou (Cantonese), Taishanese (Toishanese), etc.
What about calling it "Yue/Cantonese"? If just one name must be used, I'm in favor of changing it to Yue.

I should have stated the above more clearly: if just one name must be used for Yue/Cantonese (rather than using the two names and calling it something like "Yue/Cantonese"), I'm in favor of changing Cantonese to Yue.

If Taishanese is to be added then Taishanese is to be added. Making it "Yue" sounds like merging Spanish, Portuguese and Galician into "Ibero-Romance" IMO.

And like vijayjohn mentioned, "Taiwanese" can mean many things and we don't really have an option because the word can be just as ambiguous as "Scottish", but I don't think Cantonese has that problem. (If someone is actually studying different Minnan varieties, then we can probably add Taiwanese Minnan as a separate entry along with other Minnan varieties, but I don't think that's necessary as of now)

[księżycowy]

*Raises hand*
I'm studying Taiwanese Hokkien.

[Linguaphile]

If Taishanese is to be added then Taishanese is to be added.

It could be done on the model of what's been done for Arabic and Saami: yue (Yue) is the inclusive code but below it there are more specific ones like yue-can (Yue - Cantonese) and yue-tai (Yue - Taishanese).

[księżycowy]

Which would be added even more to the list.

In all honesty, from my stand point, I'm perfectly fine with leaving Taiwanese Hokkien under the umbrella term Minnan.
As for Caontonese, I think it may be a little out of place considering that every other dialect/language/variety of Chinese is listed as Wu, Minnan, Mindong, etc. And these designations mean that we don't have to get into the nitty gritty things, like Shanghainess vs. Wenzhounese, or Cantonese vs. Taishanese etc.

Otherwise it would only be fair to split up the rest.

Yue may be problematic, but I see it as the less problematic option. Cantonese can mean the same as Yue, or mean the specific dialect of Yue. It's not the case the other way around.

I do get the concern that people learning Cantonese may not know it can be classified as Yue, but we're all helpful people, aren't we?

[Linguaphile]

Which would be added even more to the list.

In all honesty, from my stand point, I'm perfectly fine with leaving Taiwanese Hokkien under the umbrella term Minnan.
As for Caontonese, I think it may be a little out of place considering that every other dialect/language/variety of Chinese is listed as Wu, Minnan, Mindong, etc. And these designations mean that we don't have to get into the nitty gritty things, like Shanghainess vs. Wenzhounese, or Cantonese vs. Taishanese etc.

Otherwise it would only be fair to split up the rest.

Yue may be problematic, but I see it as the less problematic option. Cantonese can mean the same as Yue, or mean the specific dialect of Yue. It's not the case the other way around.

I do get the concern that people learning Cantonese may not know it can be classified as Yue, but we're all helpful people, aren't we?

Makes sense to me!

[księżycowy]

So, are we settled on changing Cantonese to Yue, or are there still reservations?

[vijayjohn]

I guess I'm okay with that as long as it doesn't pose a problem for people who already have Cantonese in their profiles (especially e.g. if they're a native speaker).

EDIT: Actually, you know what? In Chinese itself, it's already Yue. It's just the English name that's wrong.

[księżycowy]

Do you have any native speakers?

[vijayjohn]

"You"?

But yes. Gong Sun Hao Ran.

[księżycowy]

Obviously i meant "we."

[dEhiN]

Min and Yue are two of the big groups of varieties of Chinese. Minnan (Southern Min) is a subgroup within Min (along with Northern Min, Central Min, Eastern Min, and Puxian Min, if not also Leizhou Min, Shao-Jiang Min, and Hainanese), and then Hokkien is a variety of Minnan, and Taiwanese Hokkien in turn is a variety of Hokkien.

I came here to ask about adding Hokkien to the language list, only to find a (roughly month-old) discussion on varieties of Chinese. So my current question is: now that I'm part of the (Amoy?) Hokkien study group, if I want to add that language to my signature, what should I use? Specifically, which flag (code) should I use? The one for Minnan Chinese?

[księżycowy]

Based upon our prior discussion, yes, you'd use the Minnan code.

I'd also like to re-request the change of "Cantonese" to "Yue" while I'm here.

[Linguaphile]

In the Language List the listing for myn-TZH needs to be changed to reflect that the correct name of the language is Tzeltal. It can also be spelled Tseltal or Ts'eltal, but not Tzetzal.

[Luís]

In the Language List the listing for myn-TZH needs to be changed to reflect that the correct name of the language is Tzeltal. It can also be spelled Tseltal or Ts'eltal, but not Tzetzal.

Fixed!

[księżycowy]

So.....are we leaving Cantonese as it is, or....?

[OldBoring]

And because of the conventional linguistic classification, I can't list both Qingtianese (native) and Wenzhounese (not native, despite my father's claims) in my profile, because there's only a generic Wu.

And I'm interested in Shanghainese or Suzhounese. In that case Wu would be both my native language and beginner level.

[Linguaphile]

In the Language List the listing for myn-TZH needs to be changed to reflect that the correct name of the language is Tzeltal. It can also be spelled Tseltal or Ts'eltal, but not Tzetzal.

Fixed!

Thanks!

[Luís]

So.....are we leaving Cantonese as it is, or....?

Well, I'm no authority when it comes to Chinese, so I'd like to hear what other people (and native speakers) have to say about it. One option would be to use Yue/Cantonese, as Linguaphile suggested, so that newbies can still identify the language easily.

Also, where's Karavinka?

[księżycowy]

Concidering what OB said a few posts up, I'd be interested in what he has to say about it all.

[Bubulus]

I suggest just using "Yue", without Cantonese. That's what the Chinese term already says anyway.