Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

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księżycowy
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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-12, 20:42

As I told dEhiN in a PM, I was joking around, but that's good to know anyway.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby Johanna » 2018-02-12, 21:01

księżycowy wrote:As I told dEhiN in a PM, I was joking around, but that's good to know anyway.

I suspected, but I thought it would be good to put it out there just in case :)
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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby atalarikt » 2018-02-12, 22:12

Based on Irusia's post...

Irusia wrote:As I understand, there are two variants:
1. Southeast Asian languages subforum + Australian and Oceanian languages subforum
2. Mainland Southeast Asian languages subforum + Pacific languages subforum (or we can call it Australian, Austronesian and Papuan languages subforum)
I seems that I'm the only one in favour of the later (and maybe vijayjohn? although it seems he is ok with either of the options), but we can still make a poll.


...I have made a poll without time limit (adding it would make the poll kinda ineffective, I guess). This may (or may not) be a solution for the current discussion.
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-13, 3:08

Luís wrote:Is there a TL;DR version of this discussion? :P

Basically, I think (or at least thought...) we've come to a decision: We'd like the Polynesian languages forum to be renamed the Pacific languages forum and include the Austronesian, Australian, and Papuan languages there, too. This would require moving some threads from the Other languages and Southeast Asian languages forums into what is now the Polynesian forum.

(not really tl;dr here)
Originally, we were trying to decide which languages exactly should go into the Pacific forum. One option proposed by księżycowy was Oceanic + Australian + Papuan. Another one proposed/supported by Irusia was Austronesian + Australian + Papuan. I know księżycowy has basically given in by now, but I'd like to point out the following problem with the first option, which I think makes it relatively obvious: There is an island to the northeast of Timor called Kisar. One language spoken there is a Papuan language called Oirata. Another is an Austronesian language called Kisar (same as the island). Under księżycowy's proposed scheme, Oirata would be included in the Pacific forum, but Kisar would not, even though the justification for this scheme is supposed to be geographic and they're spoken on the same island.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-13, 10:06

The results of the poll keep amusing me. They keep being tied. :lol:

And really Vijay, only you would give such a shit about those languages spoken in and around Timor. :lol:

I wouldn't say I've given in, but I just see no point to hitting my head against the same wall all day. :P

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-13, 13:16

księżycowy wrote:And really Vijay, only you would give such a shit about those languages spoken in and around Timor. :lol:

I wouldn't say I've given in, but I just see no point to hitting my head against the same wall all day. :P

:lol: To be fair, I realize that the only real objection I have is how geographically messy it is to group Papuan in with Oceanic rather than with Austronesian more generally. I'd like to hear what other people besides just you and me think, though.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-13, 13:23

I just had to say something about the poll, didn't I? Now the opposition is ahead. :P

And yes, I'd like to hear from others as well.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-14, 2:58

I guess Irusia's already expressed her own opinion, though. (Of course, she's free to add anything if she likes).

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-14, 10:05

Yes, she most certainly has.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby atalarikt » 2018-02-14, 22:52

Looks like the second option has outnumbered the first one. :hmm:
Shall we now progress onto renaming and moving threads or not?
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-14, 22:54

Won by a good margin. I suppose now I have to claim defeat for good. :P

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 14:05

It occurs to me that the designation "mainland SEA" is not the best opnion to rename the SEA forum. At least, why does it need to be changed? Especially if we do go with the non-lingiistic designation of "Pacific languages"?

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-15, 14:10

I'm not sure anyone meant that; I at least don't think the forum name needs to be changed.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby Irusia » 2018-02-15, 14:11

księżycowy wrote:It occurs to me that the designation "mainland SEA" is not the best opnion to rename the SEA forum.

What's wrong with it? What name would you suggest?
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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-15, 14:12

He's saying the current name is fine, and I agree.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 14:16

Exactly.

And for the record, I'm not saying that we can't group the Papuan and Austronesian languages into the Pacific Forum. It's just a name thing.

Sure, it could cause some confusion with Tagalog and the languages of the Philippines (and probably other places that I can't think of at the moment :P ), but concidering how much interest there is in them to begin with, I don't that think it'll be much of a head ache to direct people to the right forum.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby Irusia » 2018-02-15, 14:20

Ok, then we can leave the name as it is.
But why admins (or whoever has the right to rename forums) do not say anything? Is the forum actually going to be created?
Last edited by Irusia on 2018-02-15, 14:23, edited 1 time in total.
Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 14:22

I think they're probably waiting until we've settled things here before they decide and what not.

And I think we're wrapping up our end, so.....

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 14:47

So, by way of recap, I think most of us that have taken part in this conversation agree to the following:

-The SEA forum stays with the same name, and includes all the languages of mainland SEA (for example: Vietnamese, Cambodian, Cham, Hmong, etc.)

-The Polynesian forum becomes the Pacific forum and includes the following language families/groups: Australian Aboriginal, Papuan, Austronesian (except those that have their own forum).

Yes?

My last remaining question is, are we moving languages that are in forums already, such as Tagalog, under the current scheme or not?

I think we've all agreed to leave Malagasy in the African subforum. My question is confined to the SEA forum.

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Re: Language Subforums Renaming Discussion 2018

Postby Irusia » 2018-02-15, 15:16

księżycowy wrote:So, by way of recap, I think most of us that have taken part in this conversation agree to the following:

-The SEA forum stays with the same name, and includes all the languages of mainland SEA (for example: Vietnamese, Cambodian, Cham, Hmong, etc.)

-The Polynesian forum becomes the Pacific forum and includes the following language families/groups: Australian Aboriginal, Papuan, Austronesian (except those that have their own forum).

Yes?

I think yes.

My last remaining question is, are we moving languages that are in forums already, such as Tagalog, under the current scheme or not?

Yes, I think they should be moved. It's logical.

I think we've all agreed to leave Malagasy in the African subforum. My question is confined to the SEA forum.

I think so too.
Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
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