Europan

[linguoboy]

the same as most languages. at leest europano languages. yu dont say mexicoans, colombiaians

But we do say "Paraguayans", "Palauans", "Niueans", "Cebuanos", "Ohioans", etc.

The point is you make this big deal about your system being more regular, then you randomly introduce irregularities into it. Why would I assume the root forms of "barcelonis" and "tuvalis" are "Barcelona" and "Tuvalu" respectively instead of *"Barcelon" and *"Tuval" (or *"Barcelone" and *"Tuvala" or *"Barcelonu" and *"Tuvali", etc. etc.)?

As Luís pointed out, if you were consistent, you'd write *"peris" and not "peruvis", but you don't.

[Zé do Rock]

saim,

"a los noruegos" - brigadu pela informassaum sobri u 'a' pra objetu diretu cum pessoas - ich hab es instinktiv verwendet, wusste nich das es die regel gibt und war mir nie richtig sicher... ee sa vo pour lee jen mai pa pour animo?

"a los noruegos" - thank for the information about 'a' for direct complement with persons - i used it instinctivly, but didnt no about the rule and was nevver very sure... and the rule works for persons but not for annimals?

luís,

y si 'peruvis' ya te a orrorizado, que dirás de la forma final, 'peris'?

and if 'peruvis' shokd yu, wat wil yu say about the final form, 'peris'?

car,

é, ja pensei nisso, mais uma versaum im inglishe normau, mais us meus e-meiu ja taum bem longinhu só cum duas versaum... trotzdeem, später werd ich vermutlich alles alternative auf eine version komprimiren, und eine auf normalinglish.

yeah, i thaut about it, one mor version, in normal inglish, but my e-males ar alredy long enuf with 2 versions... stil, i guess i wil compress all alternativ spelling/languages in one version, and one in normal inglish.

[linguoboy]

s"a los noruegos" - thank for the information about 'a' for direct complement with persons - i used it instinctivly, but didnt no about the rule and was nevver very sure... and the rule works for persons but not for annimals?

It depends to what degree they are "personalised". It's common with pets, but a sentence like vi a un ciempiés would sound very odd to most native speakers.

[Zé do Rock]

Sorry for being so silent here; I don't have time nor energy to say much about the spelling reform or answer the previous messages right now (even though I'd like to). However, there's two things I'd like to know:

1) At first I thought you're aiming at phonemic orthography, which confused me because this clearly isn't a phonemic orthography. So, have I understood it right this time: you're trying to regularize English spelling system

- by deleting silent letters (except when you're not...? Like I said, I don't have time to read your messages carefully enough, but I think I saw you say something about horse vs horss spelling and word final /s/ vs /z/)
- by giving some vowels a phoneme = letter(s) match - and I guess it works only in stressed syllables?
- by adding a double consonant after a stressed syllable

Was there something I missed?

is plus o minu wat yu comprendou. la regla numer 1 is cuting inutile letras. na caso du finale -se, nu cut lu wen la son is /z/ (becaus) e mantene lu wen la son is /s/ (horse). e hors = whores.

ya, nu regularize la cort e la longo vocales dat is tipicli representee bai la vocales a-e-i-o-u (bat-bet-bit-dot-but, date-beet-bite-vote-cute). nu doplize la consonante wen la vocale na pre is cort e tonik, e solo ai un consonante son der (big, bigger, ma test, testing - no tessting). e regla numero fo: F FOR F (cof, enuf, filossofy).

yeah, it's mor or less that. the rule number 1 is cutting redundant letters. in the case of final -se, we cut it wen the sound is /z/ (becaus) and keep it wen the sound is /s/ (horse). and hors = whores.

yeah, we reggularize the short and the long vowels that ar tipicly represented by the vowels a-e-i-o-u (bat-bet-bit-dot-but, date-beet-bite-vote-cute). we duplicate the consonant wen the preceeding vowel is short and stressd, and just folloed by one consonant sound (big, bigger, but test, testing - not tessting). and rule number for: F FOR F (cof, enuf, filossofy).

2) What is the goal?

making inglish ortografie plus isi pro usis e lernis.

to make inglishe spelling eesier for users and lerners.

Who do you do this for?

pro la humanitee! nu vole sauva la mund!

for humanity! we want to save the world!

3) Lol one more, I'd also like to know more about the background. Who are these TESS members, how many are they, how did you meet, where did you get the idea of designing a new spelling for English?

TESS is a societee fundat in 1908 bai lordis e profesis tu reform el inglish ortografie. uni de su unale patronis was george bernard shaw, hu lasou parte de su heritu pro la creacion av a neu ortografico sistem, con a stenografico scrivu (DAT is difisile tu le!), uni de su laste patronis was prinso philip af ingland. un activo membro was douglas everingham, ex salude ministro af australia. la membris is pople ki faite pro a reform af el inglish ortografie. la societee had plus o minu 200 membris na toto mund, wen i was activo der. i sa no cuanto lis is nau. moustis is no yung, meibi inter 50 e 90 - un membra, la mama de rebecca romijn, a plus o minu famoso hollywood actora, ha dai pre poco mes.

dopo i scrivou main unale buk, a membro du societee, un universitee profeso de birmingham, scrivou un article abaut lu na societee jornal, e sendou mi el article. nu stanou amigis, et ik a membro du societee.

el idee de reform el inglish ortografie is super oud, uni af el unale reformis was noah webster. i sa no si lo creatou neu vordes, i pensa ki lo rada putou la plu logical ortografie de vordes in su diccionar, meme si lus was no la maxim usetus. somus was acceptee, otrus no. lus is in parte wat nu nomize 'americanisms' nauadeis. otre famoso reformi was dale carnegie, un otri was roosevelt: in su presidense tempo la blanco haus usou 300 vordes co simplifiet ortografie, as 'hav', 'enuf', 'thru' etc. somus de lus stanou otre USismos.

personalik i laike lerne linguas et i laike no la difisilitees, so i change la lingua et i sta plu facile tu mi... i laicau if ale linguas had so a simple ortografie as suomian. in fact i sa no si suomiano ha so a perfect ortografie, ma dat is un etern argumentu de TESS: anglofone landes havau a so hai alfabetizacion nivel as suomi, si lis havau a so perfect ortografie as suomian. mas i no securo ki dis argumentu funcciona reali. et i sa no meme si suomian is so perfect - lu is?

TESS was a society founded in 1908 by lords and professors to reform the inglish orthografy. one of thare first patrons was george bernard shaw, who left part of his heritage for the creation of a new spelling sistem, wich ended up being a stenografic script calld 'shavian' (THAT is hard to reed!), one of the last patrons was prince philip of ingland. an activ member was douglas everingham, ex helth minnister in australia (and the sines in his minnistry sed indeed 'helth ministry'). the members ar peeple who fite for a reform of the inglishe spelling. the society had mor or less 200 members wen i was activ thare (i left maybe 5, 6, 7 yeers ago), i dont no how menny they ar now. most of them arnt yung, ennyway, i reckon between 50 and 90 - one member, the muther of rebecca romijn, a mor or less famus hollywood actress, died a few munths ago.

after i rote my first book, a society member, a birmingham professor, rote an article about it in the society jurnal and sent me the article. we became frends, and i became a society member, later a comittee member.

the idea of reforming inglish orthografy is quite old, one of the first reformers (i'v herd of) was noah webster. i dont no if he created enny new words, i think he rather put words with mor logical spellings in his dictionary eeven if they wernt as commonly used as uthers that had a worse spelling. sum of them wer accepted, uthers wernt. they'r usualy calld americanisms. it's funny wen peeple say they dont like reformd spellings - they use them all the time, also in the UK - they spel music and not musick. peeple just forget that neerly evry word had alredy dozens of spellings in the past. anuther famus reformer was dale carnegie, anuther one was roosevelt: in his presidency, the wite house used 300 words with reformd spellings, as 'hav', 'enuf', 'thru'. sum of them stayd, as uther americanisms.

personaly i like lerning languages and i dont like dificultys, so i change the language and it gets eesier for me... i'd like it if all languages had a simple spelling as suomian. actualy i dont no if suomiano has such a perfect spelling, but thats an argument of TESS for spelling reform: anglofone cuntrys would hav such a hi litracy levvel as suomi, if they had such a perfect spelling too. but i dont no if this argument realy works. and i eeven dont no if suomian is so perfect - is it?

bai the wei, a fjuu jiirs agou wi hääd the 'noordik book weeks' in mjuunik, äänd thei invaitid mi tu rait the tekstit in german with däänish, noorweegiän, sweedish äänd finish "ääksents', thäät is in a wei thäät thei looked laik the loucal läänguage... thäät was fun!

(i no, ää isnt rite heer, but it is rite for the german feeling for spelling...)(just trying to avoid the next criticism from sumware)

[Luís]

luís,
and if 'peruvis' shokd yu, wat wil yu say about the final form, 'peris'?

I don't understand the point you're trying to make... What is "the final form"?

[Zé do Rock]

wel, i lookd up too, but wat about the adjectiv? marshallian, marshallan, marshallese, mashallish, solomonan, solomonian, solomonese, solomonish... (i know the answer, i'm asking to know if yu know without looking up)? ennyway i'm sure yu lookd for the answer, or do yu know the demonyms for all the cuntries, reegions and cities of the world?

Do you know the name of the capital city of every country in the world? Of course not; if for some reason you happen to need this information, you look it up. I don't understand why that's such a huge burden for you.

I've lived nearly half a century on this planet without ever needing an adjectival form for either of these countries. If live for a half century more, I'll most likely still never need one.

é comu eu ja dici: si você ta nus USA, tauveis você num tenha problema cu computador purkê tudu ta consentradu nu inglish, i você num tem ki pensar si u nomi ki você tem ki procurar é milano, milan, mailand ou milao. warscheinlich gibt es nur milan. mai ici en deutshland jai 3 pocibilitee, ee kelc program seul coness une ou deuz opcion. y cuando no viajas mucho a países diferentes, tampoco es un problema. mais eu viaju, eu tiv im 146 paiz, i eu screví sobri elis. tuvalu inklusive. cest une trai petit republic, lil a 30 km de longeur ee 300 m de larjeur. el país solo tiene un restaurante y una caye, para taxistas es muy facil: algien entra en el coche, el conductor pregunta: acia adelante o acia atrás?

claru, da pra continuar sempri cu sistema ki a jent ta, mezmu ki tenha sistema bem mais simplis, né. wie das metrische sisteem. ee si tu vi dans un vilaj, sest pa un problem. pero si tienes a ver con el mundo globalizado, es mas complicado, por eso una misión a marte fracasó, algunos instrumentos estaban en el sistema imperial, otros en el sistema metrico, y una vez los confundieron...

i agora u brazileis, u wunschdeutsch, u HS, u ultrafransai i u ultraspaniol taum completu, acin comu u europan. jetz werden brazileis und ultraspaniol allmälich zum portuniol sientifico, eine metodische mischung aus portugalian und espanian, wunschdeutsch, das basisdemokratische deutsh, wird zum ultradoitsh, das is ein fonemisches deutsh, das HS wird zum RITE, das ultrafransai zum panlatino.

as i sed befor, heer or sumware else: if u'r in the USA, probbably u dont hav trubble with the computer becaus all is concentrated on inglish, and u dont hav to think wether u should look for milano, milan, mailand or milao if u want to go thare, u just hav inglishe 'milan'. but in deutshland u hav 3 possibilitys, and sum programs just no one or two options. and wen u dont travvel to menny difrent cuntrys, it's not a problem either. but i do, i'v been in 146 cuntrys, and i rote about them. including tuvalu. it's a tiny republic, the iland is 30 km long and 300 m broad. the cuntry has one restaurant and one rode, for taxi drivers it is very eesy: a passenger cums in, the driver asks: forwards or bakwards?

sure, u can stay in a complicated sistem, eeven if thare ar mor simple solutions, as the metric sistem. and wen u'r in a village, it's not a problem. but if u work with the globalized world, it gets mor complicated, like the mars mission that went awry, becaus sum instruments had the impeerial sistem and uthers the metric sistem, and they confounded it once...

so now brazileis, wunschdeutsch, HS, ultrafransai and ultraspaniol ar compleet, as is europan. now brazileis and ultraspaniol wil graddualy evolv to portuniol sientifico, a methodic mix of portugalian and espanian, wunschdeutsch, the democratic deutsh, wil evolv to ultradoitsh, wich is a foneemic deutsh, HS wil becum RITE, ultrafransai wil becum panlatino.

[Zé do Rock]

they'r the same in my sistem, simply the original names.

The "original names"? So a mix of grunts and gestures?

heh heh

[Zé do Rock]

but the fact is that we made a pole asking peeple wether they find HS very eesy, eesy, rather eesy, rather dificult, dificult or very dificult to reed, and 80% sed it is very eesy, almost 20% sed it is eesy - a single person sed it is very dificult, but he also sed he hates spelling reform

Source? Who was polled, what were the questions, and what was the response rate like? You can get almost results you want from an unscientific poll if you know what to do.

no, dat was no siensale sondag. la membris tolco sendou a mini seleccion de textos ki ha plus o minus ale son af el inglishe lingua tu amigis e sabetis, e cuestionou lis si lis considera lus izi o difisile tu le. ma lu confirma main experiens: i scrive mai bukes et e-meiles in diverso sistemas, HS change 20% du vordes, e la pople co poco linguistico talento starte reclama wen plu ki 50% du vordes is diferent. clar, somi co linguistico talento can le meme textos vo 100% du vordes is diferent, bes problemas, ma lis no multi.

clar, yu corect, oni can izli manipul a sondag. mas in dize cazo vou ai no sens in lu, coze nu volou no fa publisitee co lu. nu volou sa si pople can soporta lu.

e naturalik i spik de sistemas vo la letras hav un expectee valu (internacional), no wen la letras ha nonexpectee valus (pro exemple Q pro shwa: intqrnashqnql qliqns).

no, it wasnt a sientific pole. the members just sent a small selection of texts that hav mor or less all the sounds in them to frends and aquaintances, and askd them if thay considder the texts eesy or dificult to reed. but it confirms my expeerience: i rite my books and e-males in varius sistems, HS changes 20% of the words, and peeple with little linguistic tallent start complaning wen mor than 50% of the words ar difrent. of corse, sum peeple with linguistic tallent can eeven reed texts ware 100% of the words ar difrent, without enny problems, but thay'r not menny.

sure, u'r rite, it's eesy to manippulate a pole. but in this case thare would be no sense in it, since we didnt want to make enny publicity with it. we wanted to no if it's barable to the peeple.

and i'm oanly speeking of sistems ware the letters hav an expected vallu (internacional), not wen letters hav unexpected vallus (for instance Q for shwa: intqrnashqnql qliqns).

[linguoboy]

sure, u can stay in a complicated sistem, eeven if thare ar mor simple solutions, as the metric sistem. and wen u'r in a village, it's not a problem. but if u work with the globalized world, it gets mor complicated, like the mars mission that went awry, becaus sum instruments had the impeerial sistem and uthers the metric sistem, and they confounded it once...

But this isn't actually a solution to the problem you identify! If anything, it compounds the problem by introducing yet another set of forms to be learned.

The metric system only solved the issue of multiple conflicting standards because everyone (or nearly everyone) had adopted it and abandoned their previous system. What you're doing is akin to inventing your own "improved" system of weights and measures and insisting on using it even though no one else does. Deciding to call the distance between Munich and Milan "200 superpassi" does nothing to change the fact to most people it's either "500 km" or "300 miles".

[Zé do Rock]

the same as most languages. at leest europano languages. yu dont say mexicoans, colombiaians

But we do say "Paraguayans", "Palauans", "Niueans", "Cebuanos", "Ohioans", etc.

The point is you make this big deal about your system being more regular, then you randomly introduce irregularities into it. Why would I assume the root forms of "barcelonis" and "tuvalis" are "Barcelona" and "Tuvalu" respectively instead of *"Barcelon" and *"Tuval" (or *"Barcelone" and *"Tuvala" or *"Barcelonu" and *"Tuvali", etc. etc.)?

As Luís pointed out, if you were consistent, you'd write *"peris" and not "peruvis", but you don't.

évidemen ay dee mo ki conserva see voyal final. mintnan jai regardee dan la lista dee pai, ee vrémen ay plu dee ca ou on conserva la voyal ke dee ca ou on la conserva pa. mas en la mayoría de los casos es la/s vocal/es final/es que se fusionan con el sufijo (i)an (bolivia-bolivian), o cuando la vocal(es) final(es) es tonic en el final (korea-korean). im palabra normau a vogau finau na maioria dus cazu num fais part da raiz. possible-possibility, und das E is wek. ee sa vo pour lés ôtre lang oci. el come, que el coma, yo comí, change, changing, blume, blumig, amigo, amigable.

o sea en europano la raiz acab en la última consonante - si después viene vocal, no interesa. claru ki tem cazu speciau, pur ezemplu niue, ki só tem uma consoant na comessu. oda laos - das end-s oda die endung -en sind auch nich tail des stammwortes - aba in disem fall wär der ainwona von niue der 'ni', der mann aus niue ain 'no', die frau aus laos wär aine 'la', die leute aus laos wären die 'lis'... non non non. entonces cuando solo ay un consonante en el comienzo, ay que conservar todo el nombre como parte de la raiz, en el caso de niue conservar toda la palabra. niuean.

paragiano, paliano, cebiano, ohiano, barceloniano, tuvaliano.
o us abitant:
paragis, palis, cebis, ohis, barcelonis, tuvalis.

neci sistema tu pod inferir u ki vai se u derivativu di um sertu nomi, mais tu num pod inferir u nomi pela derivativu. im TS (traditional spelling) kannst du weda noch. ni mem dan le ca de 'tuvaluan' - el nombre podría ser 'tuvalua'.

peruvis - nu fórum da TESS, cuandu augen fala du sistema deli i us otru vem ki eli num ta aplicandu a própria regra ou augen num concorda cum a regra, a pessoa pergunta si foi um erru o si tem uma regra ki tem mais prioridad ki a otra, o um cazu speciau. und warum er die aine regel hat, wenn nach der sicht der andren si mer nachtaile als vortaile hat. si un act ou una fras a 2 ou 3 interpretacion pocible, kel sera el dan se ca? mai ici non, on pren la plu negativ: son sistem est un dézastre. siempre tirandu y después preguntando, mas parece ser moda por aquí... di cuauker maner eu ainda num tinha xegadu na V, na minha "evolussaum". jetz is es 'peris'. jem pa le mo du tou, mais il fo suivre la regla ou pocible, ee se jenre de mo est rar. de tout fasson, le sistem dinternacionalizacion est complai, sya dés erreur mintnan, il pourai etre vrémen dés erreur.

of corse thare ar names that maintane thare final vowel. now i had a look at the cuntry list and i found that thare ar mor names that maintane the final vowel than names that drop it, but in moast cases it is the final vowel of the name merging with the suffix, as in 'bolivia-bolivian, belize-belizean'. in normal words the final vowel isnt genraly part of the stemword. possible-possibility, and E is gon. and that works for the uther europano languages, at leest the ones i hav a reesonable idea of. el come, que el coma, yo comí, change, changing, blume, blumig, amigo, amigable.

thus in europano the stemword ends with the last consonant - if thare is a vowel after it, we doant care. thare ar certanly special cases, for example niue, that has oanly one consonant at the beginning. or laos - the end-s or the ending -en ar not considderd part of the stemword either (seychelles-seychelli, baden-badi). but in this case the inhabbitant of niue would be 'ni', the woman from laos a 'la'. in such cases we hav to take the hole name: niueano. and the woman from laos is a laosa.

paragiano, paliano, cebiano, ohiano, barceloniano, tuvaliano.
or the inhabbitants:
paragis, palis, cebis, ohis, barcelonis, tuvalis.

in this sistem, u can infer wat the derivvativs ar for a certan name, but u cant the name from the derivvativ. in TS (traditional spelling) u cant infer ennything. not eeven in the case of 'tuvaluan' - the name could be 'tuvalua'.

peruvis - in the tess forum, wen sumbody tels about his sistem, and uther members see that he's not aplying his rule acordingly, or if thay doant agree with the rule, they tel him wat disadvantages thay see, and he can explane and argu wat its advantages ar, or he can tel that thare is a special rule, or he just had a tiping error. if an act or a frase can be interpreted in 2 or 3 difrent ways, u wunder and try to find out wich one it could be, but heer peeple take the worst one as very likely option: his sistem is a disaster. first shooting and then asking questions, and it seems quite fashonable heer... ennyway i hadnt arived to the letter V, in my "evolution", or progressiv presentation. now it is 'peris'. i doant like it at all, but i hav to stik to the rule ware i can, and this sort of word is rather rare. ennyway, the internationalization process is compleeted now, if thare ar mistakes now in this area, thay could be realy mistakes!

[Zé do Rock]

s"a los noruegos" - thank for the information about 'a' for direct complement with persons - i used it instinctivly, but didnt no about the rule and was nevver very sure... and the rule works for persons but not for annimals?

It depends to what degree they are "personalised". It's common with pets, but a sentence like vi a un ciempiés would sound very odd to most native speakers.

mersie. apropoh, como dat is in inglish, na pronom uzu? yu vou sei "i saw a horse on the feeld, he seemd quite il', o rada 'i saw a horse on the feeld, it seemd quite il'? i vou sei 'he', mas i reflecte wat pople vou sei normali. et if oni vole non uza 'it', oni voud alwen uza 'he', or 'she' pro som animalis? i vole sei, wen oni sa no la sex af el animal.

thanks. by the way, how is that in inglish, with the use of pronouns? would u say 'i saw a horse on the feeld, he seemd quite il', or rather 'i saw a horse on the feeld, it seems quite il'? i'd say 'he', but i wunder how peeple say it usualy. and if u dont want to use 'it', would u always use 'he', or 'she' for sum annimals? i meen, wen u dont no the sex of an annimal.

[Zé do Rock]

luís,
and if 'peruvis' shokd yu, wat wil yu say about the final form, 'peris'?

I don't understand the point you're trying to make... What is "the final form"?

yo estab introduciendo el HS y la internacionalización de nombres geograficos gradualmente, alfabeticamente. agora todus nomi jeograficu i us derivativu taum completu.

i was introducing the HS and the internacionalization of geografic names graddualy, alfabeticly. now all the geografic names and thare derivvativs ar compleet.

[Zé do Rock]

The metric system only solved the issue of multiple conflicting standards because everyone (or nearly everyone) had adopted it and abandoned their previous system. What you're doing is akin to inventing your own "improved" system of weights and measures and insisting on using it even though no one else does. Deciding to call the distance between Munich and Milan "200 superpassi" does nothing to change the fact to most people it's either "500 km" or "300 miles".

comparing el inglishe sistema co la metrale sistem is la sam as comparing un oude capute scrivumashina con a space shuttle. mai sistem Is a beteriz: yu lerne 11 regla e yu ha 3 exepciones. el inglishe sistema ha 3 reglas, o demireglas, e 88 exepciones - la nomes du halfu du landes is exepciones. e den nu ha varios ambiguo nomes: 'antiguan' can signifi la citizenis du land 'antigua and barbuda', e can oso signifik el abitis af el isla 'antigua'. is a discriminacion du barbudis, mas is no problema pro yu, yu in el usa, no? 'central african' can signifi la citizenis du republique centrafricaine, et oso la pople ki vive na centro de africa (congis, camerounis, tchadis...). 'congolese' can signifik el abitis de 2 land, dominican oso, timorese el abitis du nacion este timor mas oso el abitis af el isla (ki can oso bin indonesis). oni can manja con a 'german', ma can no manja con a 'french'. oni can manja con a mexican ma can no manja con a spanish. e den vi com oni can nomize la pople: wat yu vou sei si canadis vou bi nomizee 'ni-canada', if USis vou bi nomizee 'americasques', wat yu vou sei si mexikis vou bi nomize mexicois, et un colombi mo-colombi, ma do colombi o tri colombi ba-colombi? al dat is inglish, la diferens is solo ki lis is uzee pro otre landes...

yu sei: nu Hav a sistem, so wai nu nesesit un otru? dat was wat pople ha sei tu el inventis du metrale sistem. dat was wat pople ha sei tu thomas edison: wai yu experimenta co diz energie du diavlo, si nu ha nashe gud oude faia lampas? e so mult otre mega nomes musou audi dize tipe de critik... no, i vole no compara mi co diz inventis, speciali coze lis had suxess et i probabli no, mas i vole compara yu co la critikis. et is bene posible ki multi super dobro idees nowen vidou la dia lait coze dat.

ik oso pensa dat oni can trata su canser co super beta dinges ki la convencionale medik, meibi plu pople dai coze la tratu ki coze la maladitee. i spik abaut dat tu ale pople dat ik incontra, e probablik i va nowen change la sistem - is a bisnes de stos bilion dolar - mas do personi ki credou mig encora viv, e co 97% de chances lis vou bi morto si lis credau su medikis. so mem if i can no fa mult, i satisfazee dat i can fas a mini bit.


comparing the inglishe sistem with the metric sistem is the same as comparing an old broken tiperiter with a space shuttle. and my sistem Is an improvement: u lern 11 rules/subrules and hav 3 exeptions, it meens 14 information bits, wile the inglishe sistem has 3 rules/subrules/patterns and 88 exceptions - the name of haf the cuntrys ar exceptions (not to mention that in moast cases the word is the same for the inhabbitant and the nationality/language, but in menny cases not, wich meens mor a few duzzen of information bits). and then we hav all the ambigguus names: 'antiguan' can meen the cittizens of the cuntry 'antigua and barbuda', and can also meen the inhabbitants of the iland 'antigua'. this is a discrimination of the barbudis, but thats not a problem for u, since u liv in the usa, dont u? 'central african' can meen the cittizens of the republique centrafricaine and also the peeple who liv in the middle of africa, as the congis, camerounis, tchadis... 'congolese' can meen the inhabbitants of 2 cuntrys, 'dominican' too, 'timorese' the inhabittants of este timor and also the inhabbitants of the iland timor, wich includes indonesis. yu can hav a dinner with a german, but u cant hav a dinner with a french. u can play golf with a mexican, but not with a spanish. and then wach how peeple can be calld: wat would u say if in my sistem i calld canadis 'ni-canada', if USis wer calld 'americasques', wat would u say if i calld mexicans mexicois and sed mexikoah, and wat would u say if i calld one colombi mo-colombia, but 2 or mor colombis 'ba-colombia'? that is inglish, the difrence is oanly that the suffixes ar used for uther cuntrys...

u say: we do hav a sistem, so wy do we need anuther one? that was wat peeple sed to the creators of the metric sistem by the time the creators started develloping it. that was wat peeple told thomas edison: wy ar u experimenting with this ennergy form of the devvil, if we hav our good old oil lamps? no, i dont want to compare myself with thees peeple, especialy becaus they had success and i hadnt, but i want to compare u with thare critics. wat we hav EXISTS, and wat u'r trying to do is FANTASY, forget it! and probbably menny very good ideas nevver saw the daylite becaus of that.

i also think that thare ar better cancer treetments than the one offerd by the conventional medicin, maybe mor peeple di becaus of the treetment than becaus of the disees. i keep telling that to the peeple, and probbably i'l nevver change the sistem - it is a bisness of hundreds of billions of dollars - but two persons beleevd me, and thay'r stil alive, altho thare chances of being ded by now would be of 97%, if thay beleevd thare doctors. so eeven if i cant do much, i hav to be glad if i can do a little bit.

[linguoboy]

u say: we do hav a sistem, so wy do we need anuther one?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying why do we need another one that has about as much chance of being generally adopted as I have of curing cancer with the tools and ingredients found in my kitchen at home?

thanks. by the way, how is that in inglish, with the use of pronouns? would u say 'i saw a horse on the feeld, he seemd quite il', or rather 'i saw a horse on the feeld, it seems quite il'? i'd say 'he', but i wunder how peeple say it usualy. and if u dont want to use 'it', would u always use 'he', or 'she' for sum annimals? i meen, wen u dont no the sex of an annimal.

It depends on familiarity. People who work with horses would know their sex and use the gendered pronouns. Some would even take offence at people substituting "it" even for a horse whose sex was unknown. (My father grew up on a farm and used to mock us kids for missexing domestic animals.)

I'm not sure if people have a default gendered pronoun for horses. They do seem to have them for dogs and cats. All things being equal, I find people more likely to call a dog whose sex they don't know "he" and a cat "she". My cat is male, for instance, and even after I've clearly referred to him with "he", some people will persist in saying "she". (More commonly, they'll ask something like, "Oh, he's male?")

[Zé do Rock]

u say: we do hav a sistem, so wy do we need anuther one?

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying why do we need another one that has about as much chance of being generally adopted as I have of curing cancer with the tools and ingredients found in my kitchen at home?

du werst übarasht... ich hab aine datenbank mit 280 fellen, und 40% der konvenzionell behandelten übaleben die ersten 5 jare nach der diagnose, bai shulmedizinferwaigeran 80% - 280 felle sind nich die welt, ma kann nich fon exakthait sprechen, aba die zalen deuten schon in die richtige richtung. ee lee substans pour lekel ay la plu mega evidens - des etud, survivan - on peu les achetee na marchee, ou avec lee revendeur de drog. imajino ke el establishment medico diga que é muy complicado y caro pra justificar ke ganan de 50 000 a 100 000 dólares por pacient...

yo creo que transformar la lengua é super mas difícil... em sverige tiverum a idee d'inventar uma nova palabra, 'hen', pra ser vivu sem sexu o dus cuais num si sab u sexu (u/a delincuent ki entrou na minha caza, deus (eu suponho ki eli num tenha um penis - pra ke, pra fazer deuzinhu?), akeli cavalu...). und sait kurzem findest du das wort im wörtabuch. mai naturalmen, sè ne plus cun mo, e una mini reform è plu facil en sverige ke una mega reforma na mega mond de la lang inglish. mas ay pequenhos cambios, como en deutsh 'san franzisko > san francisco', o los mapas, que traen cada vez mas los nombres originales... a speransa é a última ki morr!

u'd be serprized... i hav a database with 280 cases, and 40% of the patients treeted conventionaly servive the ferst 5 yeers after the diagnosis, wile 80% of the refusers of conventional medicin servive - the numbers arnt suficient to be precise, but thay do sho the direction. and the substances for wich thare is the moast evvidence - studdys, survivors - ar found at the market, or the drug deeler has them. i guess the medical establishment ses it is complicated and expensiv to justify that thay get 50 000 to 100 000 dollars per patient...

i supose that changing the language is a lot mor dificult... in sverige thay had the idea of creating a new werd, 'hen' for livving beings that dont hav a biological gender, or of whom u dont no it - the theef who was in my house, god (i guess 'hen' dusnt hav a peenis - wat for, to make little gods?), that horse, that lizzard... and since 2 yeers u find the werd in the dictionarys. but of corse, its not mor than a single werd, and a little reform is eesier to get thru in sverige than a big reform in the huge werld of the inglishe language. but thare ar little changes, as in deutsh 'san franzisko > san francisco', or the maps, that sho mor and mor the original names... hope is the last to di!

thanks. by the way, how is that in inglish, with the use of pronouns? would u say 'i saw a horse on the feeld, he seemd quite il', or rather 'i saw a horse on the feeld, it seems quite il'? i'd say 'he', but i wunder how peeple say it usualy. and if u dont want to use 'it', would u always use 'he', or 'she' for sum annimals? i meen, wen u dont no the sex of an annimal.

It depends on familiarity. People who work with horses would know their sex and use the gendered pronouns. Some would even take offence at people substituting "it" even for a horse whose sex was unknown. (My father grew up on a farm and used to mock us kids for missexing domestic animals.)

I'm not sure if people have a default gendered pronoun for horses. They do seem to have them for dogs and cats. All things being equal, I find people more likely to call a dog whose sex they don't know "he" and a cat "she". My cat is male, for instance, and even after I've clearly referred to him with "he", some people will persist in saying "she". (More commonly, they'll ask something like, "Oh, he's male?")

tal vez simplemente devido al echo que canes son mas percebidos como masculinos y gatos como femininos, mas tal vez una reminicencia de los tiempos en que las palabras todavía tenían género? der hund, die katze... na nederlandish, comu na plattdeutsh, u articu pru femininu i masculinu é u mezmu, 'de', mais cuandu si uza um pronomi si uza 'he' o 'ze', naum 'het' (o dat na plattdeutsh). im portugalian orientirt ma sich nach dem gramatikalishen genus (u gatu, u cachorru, u caum = eli), aussa ma kennt das biologishe geshlecht.

en tou lee sistem ou je chanj la gramar, jutilis 'li' pour les etre vivan don je conai pa la sex.

maybe simply du to the fact that dogs ar perceevd as masculin and cats as femminin, but maybe a reminnicence of the times wen werds stil had a gender in inglish? as deutsh der hund, die katze... in nederlandish, as in plattdeutsh, the article for femminin and masculin is the same, 'de', but wen it cums to a pronoun, it is 'he' or 'ze', not 'het' (or 'dat' in plattdeutsh). in portugaliano thay say it acording to the gramatical gender (u gatu, u cachorru/u caum = ele), except wen u no the biological gender.

in all sistems ware i change the grammar, i use 'li' for the livving beings wen i dont no the biological gender.

[Vlürch]

I find people more likely to call a dog whose sex they don't know "he" and a cat "she". My cat is male, for instance, and even after I've clearly referred to him with "he", some people will persist in saying "she". (More commonly, they'll ask something like, "Oh, he's male?")

There are adults who do that?!

Like, I guess it can kind of make sense if they've never had pets themselves and never grew out of the childhood phase where dogs are considered male and cats are considered female, but fucking hell... I wonder where it comes from and whether there's been any research into it, and whether it's independent of culture for kids to think that for some reason? Are there cultures where by default cats are seen as male and dogs are seen as female, or where no default exists?

80% of the refusers of conventional medicin servive

^{[citation needed]}

Okay, I know it's hypocritical for me to ask anyone to back up their claims about anything since I often spew illogical and obviously incorrect conspiracy bullshit without references myself, but c'mon...

[Zé do Rock]

I find people more likely to call a dog whose sex they don't know "he" and a cat "she". My cat is male, for instance, and even after I've clearly referred to him with "he", some people will persist in saying "she". (More commonly, they'll ask something like, "Oh, he's male?")

There are adults who do that?!

Like, I guess it can kind of make sense if they've never had pets themselves and never grew out of the childhood phase where dogs are considered male and cats are considered female, but fucking hell... I wonder where it comes from and whether there's been any research into it, and whether it's independent of culture for kids to think that for some reason? Are there cultures where by default cats are seen as male and dogs are seen as female, or where no default exists?

80% of the refusers of conventional medicin servive

^{[citation needed]}

Okay, I know it's hypocritical for me to ask anyone to back up their claims about anything since I often spew illogical and obviously incorrect conspiracy bullshit without references myself, but c'mon...

[Zé do Rock]

I find people more likely to call a dog whose sex they don't know "he" and a cat "she". My cat is male, for instance, and even after I've clearly referred to him with "he", some people will persist in saying "she". (More commonly, they'll ask something like, "Oh, he's male?")

There are adults who do that?!

Like, I guess it can kind of make sense if they've never had pets themselves and never grew out of the childhood phase where dogs are considered male and cats are considered female, but fucking hell... I wonder where it comes from and whether there's been any research into it, and whether it's independent of culture for kids to think that for some reason? Are there cultures where by default cats are seen as male and dogs are seen as female, or where no default exists?

i can imagina ki linguas ki ha genero pro su substantivos uza la corespondale vordes, so if a vord is femal, la pronome va bi femal, etc. inglishe ha no genero pro la substantivos, mas uzing 'it' pro dom animalis as miau e wawau sim a bit as fazing dinges de lis, e la spiritu refuze dat. apropoh, com is dat in suomian? vu ha no generos pro la substantivos, no? vu sei 'hän' or 'se' tu miaus, wawaus o cavalis?

i can imagin that languages that hav gender for the nouns use the corespondent words, so if a word is feemale, the pronoun wil be feemale, etc. inglishe has no gender for nouns, but using 'it' for domestic annimals as cats and dogs seem a bit like making things of them, and our spirit refuses that. by the way, how is it in suomian? u dont hav gender for the nouns, do u? so do u say 'hän' or 'se' to cats, dogs or horses?

80% of the refusers of conventional medicin servive

^{[citation needed]}

Okay, I know it's hypocritical for me to ask anyone to back up their claims about anything since I often spew illogical and obviously incorrect conspiracy bullshit without references myself, but c'mon...

mai referens is mai statisticas. i startou no co lus coz i volou prova ki convencionale medik is cak, i startou lu coz un amigo de mi getou a cerebro tumor, et i vidou ki su chanses tu bi mort in 5 anos is plus o minu 97%. normalik i solo fa wat la doctor sei i mus fa, i trata no mai salude problemas co tes et erbas, ma si mai survivu chanses co la convencionale medik is so microscopik, i can serch algu diferent - if i finde nix, i dai eniwei, et if i find alg, i had luk! so i startou serch alternativus. e com ai non oficiale statisticas abaut survivu rates in alternativo medik, i desidou fa lus i mem. wen a pacient is curee con algu dat is no convencionale medik, lis nomize lu 'spontano curu', e wen oni cuestiona lis cuanto parcento pacientis hav a "spontano curu", lis sei "super pok, vale no studi lu'. wel, lis no soooo pok, lis minu ki 10%, et inter 10% e 20% pro la mixis, dat is la pople ki mixa convencionale con alternativo medik.

among la 10 unal alternativo pacientis, 9 survivou 5 anos et 1 no, among la nexte 10, 7 survivou e 3 no. among la nexte 6, 5 survivou et 1 no. so el 80% is, as i ha sei na pre, non a securo numer, ma lu mostra la direccion: ki mouste pacientis ki tratou su canser con alternativo medicu surviv. is bene neprobable dat yu go na strata, cuestiona 26 person e mouste de lis sei lis vota la comunista partie, si solo 5% af el electis vota la comunista partie. e dize numeros is confirmee bai la survivu rates de plus o minu 40 mixis, vo la survivu rat is de 57%, inter la numeros pro convencionale medicu solo (40%) e solo alternativo medik (80%).

so wat i shalau faz, in tai opinion? elimining la suxesale datas af el alternativo medicu de mai databank, so dat i can acorda co la meinstrem sabu? i pensa no dat is a conspiracion, dat is simpli turbocapitalismo. oni vid el auto industrie ki manipula su motores, werke co dictatorumes, wai yu pensa ki la farma industrie is diferent? a branche ki fa cruel experimentus in africa, et a WHO ki cri "alarm, alarm!" abaut la swini grip, e dopo la farma multinacionalus fazou 18 miliarde dolar co vending vaxinas tu la governus, lis simpli forget abaut lu, meme si multi pople tacou no la vaxin. wel, if yu laik, yu can leze la texto dat i scrivou abaut lu, co la provizori rezultus: http://www.zedorock.net/2planteng.html. 13 pages de text e 13 pages co lincus tu studus abaut canser e canabis - ai minimali 143 studu ki sei ki canabis is efectivo contra canser, oso unu du harvard universitee, un af el UCLA, e la medical establishment sei dat ai no stud.


my refrence ar my statistics. i didnt start with them becaus i wanted to prove that conventional medicin is shit, i started it becaus a frend of mine got a brane tumor, and i saw that his chances to be ded in 5 yeers ar of mor than 97%. usualy i'd just do wat the doctor tels me, i doant treet my helth problems with tees and herbs, but if my survival chances with the conventional medicin ar so microscopic, i can serch for sumthing else - if i doant find ennything, i di ennyway, and if i find sumthing - lucky me! so i started looking for alternativs. and since thare ar no oficial statistics on the survival rates for alternativ medicin, i decided to make them myself. wen a patient is cured with sumthing else than the conventional medicin, thay call it a "spontaneus heeling", and wen u ask them how menny percent of patients hav a spontaneus heeling, thay say "very few, so it's not werth examining it". wel, thay'r not soooo few, a little bit fewer than 10% (it meens millions in the werld), and between 10% and 20% for the mixers, ie peeple who mix conventional with alternativ medicin.

amung the 10 ferst alternativ patients, 9 servived 5 yeers and 1 didnt, amung the next 10, 7 servived and 3 didnt. amung the next 6, 5 servived it and 1 didnt. so the 80% ar, as i sed befor, not a safe number, but it dus sho the direction: that most peeple treeted alternativly servive. it is quite unlikely that u go on the street, ask 26 persons and moast of them say thay vote for the communist party, if oanly 5% of the electors vote for the communist party. and thees numbers ar confermd by the survival rates of about 40 mixers, ware the survival rate is of 57%, between the numbers for conventional medicin only (40%) and alternativ medicin oanly (80%).

so wat should i do in your opinnion? elimminate the successful data for alternativ medicin from my database, to agree with the manestreem nollege? i doant think is is a conspiration, it's simply turbocappitalism. u see the automobile industry manippulating thare motors, werking with dictatorships, wy should u think that big farma is enny difrent? a branch that makes cruel experiments in africa, and a WHO that yelloes "alarm, alarm!" about the swine flu, and after the farmaceutic multinationals had an extra incum of 18 billion $ with the sale of vaccination to the guvverments, the WHO just dusnt talk about it ennymor, eeven if menny peeple didnt take enny vaccination. wel, if u like, u can reed the text i rote about it with the provisional results: http://www.zedorock.net/2planteng.html. 13 pages of text and 13 pages of links about cannabis and cancer - thare ar at leest 143 studdys saying that cannabis is efectiv agenst cancer, also one of the harvard university, one of the UCLA, and the medical establishment ses thare ar no studdys.

[Zé do Rock]

aqui vad una canción na deutshe de sude brasil, que las malas lenguas yaman de 'katarinisch' o 'catarina'. purkê u stadu cu maior númeru di decendent di deutshis (serca de 40% a 50% da populassaum) si xama santa catarina. muss aba ain altes lid sain, wail da noch alles richtig deklinirt wird. hui la deutshe de sude brasil ha ger declinacion, s'è pluto un afrikaans deutsh, ou un de deu mo est en portugalian. claro, eso solo é divertido y/o interesante pra la gente que fala las dos lenguas...

heer goes a song from sude brasil, wich the sharp tungs call 'katarinisch' or 'catarina'. becaus the state with the largest number of deutshe decendents is the state of santa catarina (about 40% to 50% of the population). it must be an old song, tho, since the declinations ar stil thare. nowadays the deutsh in sude brasil has hardly enny declinations, it is rather a deutsh afrikaans, ware evry seccond word is in portugalian. of corse, this is only funny and/or intresting for peeple who speek boath languages...


DAS "MATO" LIED
Eu nasci lá bem no mato, wo die Straße ist no fim.
Da hat's keine macadame, nur pântano und capim.
Não precisa Schuhe putzen, tralala, wie in der Stadt.
Niemand suja os sapatos, weil es eben keine hat.
De manhão eu me levanto, wenn café apitam tut,
denn zuvor hat's muito frio und wann schläft's sich noch so gut.
Morgens früh der galo canta kikiriki, da stört mich nicht.
Vá tu lá plantá batata, ich mich rühr' noch lange nicht.
Wenn ich mich gevestet habe, trink ich meinen chimarrão,
und dann nehm' ich meine Angel und peskier no ribeirão.
Tralala, que vida boa, nada de serviço há.
Setz' mich bloß auf die Barranke und der resto já se dá.
Doch wenn's zwölf Uhr hat gebattet, bem ligeiro dann nach Haus'.
In die Ecke die Tamanken, ich mich setz' zum Mittagsschmaus.
Tralala, ich ess' gern peixe, tralala, mit viel pirão.
Tralala, dann lacht mich immer, tralala der coração.
Mas despois geh' ich zur Arbeit, in der roça, das ist schwer.
Dann peguier ich meine foice und rocier die capoer.
Ai, ai, ai, como isto é duro, nichts ist brincadeira não,
aber ich bin ja kein burro, trouxe junto o violão.
Als ich neulich kapinierte, ließ ich offen den portão,
und dann kam eine dumme vaca und stragierte den feijão.
Ai, ai, ai, nahm ich einen susto, ai, ai, ai, tat ich dizer;
und dann nahm ich einen sarrafo und corrierte hinterher.
Doch die Mutti hat gesehen, den desastre von der Kuh,
sie chamierte mich prá essen und surrierte mich dazu,
Ai, ai, ai, mit dem chinelo, ai, ai, ai, como eu gritei.
Ai, ai, ai, fugierte ich schneller, ai, ai, ai, eu não gostei.
Dumme vaca, tu me pagas, 'spera aí ein andermal,
dann nehm' ich eine grande pedra und tu vais passar bem mal,
vinte e quatro lange horas bind' ich dir die Schnauze zu,
und dann stehst du vor dem Futter und tust denken: muh, muh, muh.

[Zé do Rock]

I pensou dat un interesale tema canau bi la diferenses de lingua tu lingua in el uzu de 2 pronomes pro la dozale personi singular, as in espaniano tu/usted, franciano tu/vous, deutshe du/sie. In inglish ai no diferens if yu spik co tai chef, a plus oudi, a strangi o tai best amig, ma moust otre linguas dat i sa hav a diferenciacion, exepto chinan. In inglish is alwen 'you', in francian e deutsh is relativli rigid, in nederlandish e skandinavish ai 'yu' co respect, mas oni uza lu rarli. Na portugaliano du plu mega parte de Brazil ai 'você' (normalik abreviee tu 'ce'), ki is la normale pronome, dat oni uza na deitudei, 'o Senhor/a Senhora' wen oni spik co super plus oude personis, o co la chef. Mas lis sei 'você' de retorn. In Portugal et in some partes de nordeste Brazil ai meme 3 pronom: 'tu' pro el amigis, 'o senhor' pro plus oude pople e pro la chefis, e 'você' pro somu inter lis - dat val oso pro Portugal, i pens. La japanis "decline" no la 'tu', lis decline el 'i', dependentli du respecto dat oni shal mostra. In el antico tempos lis had meme 30 vordes pro 'i', nau is solo halfe dozen...

Com is dize diferenses na linguas ki vu spik? Vu sa conlinguas ki faz a diferenciacion?


Hi fokes,

I thaut that one subject i'm intrested in at the moment ar the difrences from language to language in the variations of the 2. person singular: du/sie, tu/vous, tu/usted. In inglish thare is no difrence if u talk to your boss, an elder person, a stranger or your best frend, but moast uther languages i no of do hav a diferentiation, except chinese, as far as i no. In inglish it is always 'you', in francian and deutsh it is rellativly rigid, in nederlandish and skandinavish thay hav a respect pronoun, but just use it very rarely. In the portugaliano spoken in moast parts of Brazil we normaly use 'você' (usualy abreeviated to 'ce'), wich is the default pronoun, but brazilis use 'o Senhor/a Senhora' wen thay talk to much older peeple or to the boss. And that person replies with 'você' and not with the respect pronoun. In Portugal and in sum parts of the brazilian nordeste thay hav eeven 3 pronouns: 'tu' for the frends, 'o senhor' for elder peeple and for the bosses, and 'você' for sumthing inbetween - as in Portugal, i guess. The japanis dont "decline" the 'you', they decline the 'I', depending on how much respect thay hav to sho to the uther person, how hier the uther person is in the hierarchy. In the old times thay had eeven 30 words for 'I', now thay just use haf a duzzen...

How ar thees difrences in the languages u speek, how do thay handle that? Ar thare conlangs that make a diferentiation?