Europan

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Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-25, 1:50

Naava wrote:
Hungarian grammar is like Finland on all the drugs in the world

So if you take Finnish and add some alcohol, you get Estonian, and if you add drugs, you get Hungarian? :lol:


e tem gente que pode ficar mais bêbado que finlandês?
and are thare people who can get more drunk than the fins?

hallo leute,
hi folks,

although i'm definitely not the youngest, i'm a newcomer here. its not bad to visit a forum full of linguaholics.

je vais écrire dans une langue avec une orthograph reformée dans la première ligne, dans la deuxieme je vais écrire dans la même langue, mais cette langue va en direction de l'europano, un 'euroclone' que jai crée...
je vais écrire dans une langua avec une orthograph reformée dans la première ligne, dans la deuxieme je vais écrire dans la même langua, mais cette langua va en direccion de l'europano, un 'euroclone' que jai crée...
i'll write in a language with reformed spelling on the first line, in the seccond line i'll write in the same language, but it will change and eventually become europano, an 'euroclone' i've created...

en la tercera línea viene inglés, si la primera lengua no es inglés, también con ortografía reformada.
en la tercera line vien inglés, si la primera lengua no es inglés, también con ortografie reformee.
on the third line comes english, if the first language isnt english, also with reformd spelling.

europan é um euroclone, a diferensa da maioria é que ela nao é predominantment latina.
europan é um euroclone, a diferensa da maioria é que ela no é predominantemente latina.
europan is an euroclone, the difrence from the majority is that it is not predominantly romanic.

die wörter werden mathematisch ermittelt, unter allen europan nationalsprachen:
die wörder werden mathematisch determiniert, unter allen europan nacionale linguas:
the words ar determind mathematically, among all europan national languages:

the mor international and the shorter, the better the chance of a word becoming the elected word.
the plus internacional e the plus short, the beta the chance af a word becoming the electee word.

en tout cas, lorsc con discute ici lee diférences entre finlandais ee ongarian, jai une question:
in tout cas, comm on discut ici les diferences inter finlandais et ongarian, i ha une question:
anyway, since we'r discussing the difrences between finnish and hungarian, i hav a question:

alguien a tratado de estudiar la proximidad de las lenguas fino-úgricas con las lenguas turcas?
alguien a tratado de studiar la proximidad de las linguas fino-úgricas con las linguas turcas?
has anybody tried to examin the neerness (?) of finno-ugric languages with the turk languages?

pelo menos em dois casos eu descobrí semelhansas:
ao minos im dos casos i descobri similaridees:
at leest in two cases i discoverd similarities:

das wort für 'apfel' is auf kasakhish 'alma' (almaty = stadt der äpfel), auf türkish heisst es 'elma', auf ungarish 'alma' /OlmO/ und finnish hat 'omino'.
das word für 'aple' is auf kasakhish 'alma' (almaty = citi af el apele), auf türkish haisst es 'elma', auf ungarish 'alma' /OlmO/, e finnish hat 'omino'.
the word for 'apple' is in kazakh 'alma' (almaty = city of the apples), in turkish it is 'elma', in hungarian 'alma' /OlmO/, and finnish has 'omino'.

eeven mongolian has 'alim', wich is deffinitly not far away...
meme mongoliano has 'alim', dat is definitli not far awei...

un autre mot cest le mot pour jaune:
un autre mot ist la mot pour jaune:
another word is the word for yellow:

'sarî' en kazaj, 'sarî' en turco, 'sárga' en úngaro. solo finlandiano tiene una otra palabra, keltainen.
'sarî' in kazakh, 'sarî' in turkiano, 'sárga' in úngaro. solo finlandiano tien un otra palabra, keltainen.
'sarî' in kazakh, 'sarî' in turkian, 'sárga' in hungarian. only finnish has another word, keltainen.

mais mesmo mongoliano tem 'shar'.
mas mesme mongoliano ha 'shar'.
but eeven mongoliano has 'shar'.

und sie alle ham die vokalharmonie... (ich weiss nich ob auch mongoliano, da weiss ich nich vil).
e si ale ha la vocal harmonie... (i waiss non if auch mongoliano, da i waiss no fil).
and they all hav vowel harmony... (i dont know if mongoliano has it too, i dont know much about it)

so could it be that eeven belonging to two difrent famlies, thees two famlies ar neerer to eech other than to other famlies?
so canau it bi ki meme belonging to do diferente families, dise do families ar plus nir to el otre ki to otre families?

apropo, je conai cune demi douzene de mot en finlandian, com mies (om), un mot c'en alman signifi méchant, moch.
apropoh, i sa solo halfe duzena mot in finlandian, as mies (man), un mot ki in alman signifi mechant, moch.
by the way, i just know haf a dozen words in finnian, as mies (man), a word that in german meens bad, grotty, apalling.

y después aquellas palabras sverigishe que se tornaran irreconocibles:
e den dat sverigishe palabras ki ha sta nereconisable:
and then those sverigishe words that became irrecognizable:

'tuoli' di sverigishe 'stol' (cadera), 'koulu' di sverigishe 'skola' (scola), kahvipausi (pausa pro café...).
'tuoli' de sverigishe 'stol' (stul), 'koulu' de sverigishe 'skola' (scola), kahvipausi (cafe paus...).
'tuoli' from sverigishe 'stol' (chare), 'koulu' from sverigishe 'skola' (scool), kahvipausi (coffee brake...).

oh, und noch was: wenn jemand feler bei mir entdeckt, kann ma mich gerne korigiren...
oh, e plus unu: wen algi discovre falsitees in mai text, i vou bi dancli si li corige mi...
oh, one mor thing: wen yu discuvver mistakes in my text, i'd be thankful for corections...

not for the spelling, tho. that has a sistem...
no pro el ortografie, naturali. dat hav a sistem...

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Re: Europan

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-01-25, 16:57

Having one language morph into another is clever and all, but it means the reader gets no reliable sense of what Europan actually looks like. And considering Europan is the main point of this thread, why are you burying it among all those reformed orthographies? I speak two of the natlangs you used, and your changes are distracting to say the least.
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Re: Europan

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-25, 17:14

The name and concept seem awfully similar to Diego Marani's Europanto.
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Re: Europan

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-01-25, 23:14

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Re: Europan

Postby Naava » 2018-01-26, 11:29

although i'm definitely not the youngest, i'm a newcomer here. its not bad to visit a forum full of linguaholics.

Welcome!
Btw, if you want to write your messages in more than one language (which is fine), could you put them in separate paragraphs? It was quite difficult to find the English sentences among the wall of text, especially because you didn't use any capitals.

europan is an euroclone, the difrence from the majority is that it is not predominantly romanic.

What do you mean by this?

the mor international and the shorter, the better the chance of a word becoming the elected word.

What do you mean by "more international"?

has anybody tried to examin the neerness (?) of finno-ugric languages with the turk languages?

Yes. However, like it's said there, "the hypothesis has been widely rejected."
so could it be that eeven belonging to two difrent famlies, thees two famlies ar neerer to eech other than to other famlies?

I don't think I understood what you mean here.

by the way, i just know haf a dozen words in finnian

Nice! Where have you learnt these words?

finnish has 'omino ...
kahvipausi (coffee brake...)

*omena, *kahvipaussi :P
not for the spelling, tho. that has a sistem...

Would you like to tell more about this?

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-29, 17:22

Dormouse559 wrote:Having one language morph into another is clever and all, but it means the reader gets no reliable sense of what Europan actually looks like. And considering Europan is the main point of this thread, why are you burying it among all those reformed orthographies? I speak two of the natlangs you used, and your changes are distracting to say the least.


tu as raison, on na pas une idee de comment europano semble. je ne sais même pas pourquoi jai commencé ce "fil" a ce moment la (est-ce con dit vraiment 'fil' dans ce cas pour 'thread'?), peutêtre jétais bourré... de toute fasson lidee cest: 1ere ligne - la languas naturales évoluent (doucement) en direccion de l'europan, comme sa on peut s'habituer peu-a-peu. 2ere ligne - la traduccion dans la langua naturale, mais lorsque je nutilise jamais une langua sans la faire plus logique (sauf en italien, ou sa ne fait pas de sense), elle vient avec une orthographe reformée. 3ere ligne - la traduccion en anglis, évidemment auci avec orthographe reformée...

tu as raison, on na pas une idee de comment europano semble. je ne sais même pas pourquoi jai commencé ce "fil" a ce moment la (est-ce con dit vraiment 'fil' dans ce cas pour 'thread'?), peutêtre jétais bourré... de toute fasson lidee cest: 1ere ligne - les langues naturelles évoluent (doucement) en direccion de l'europan, comme sa on peut s'habituer peu-a-peu. 2ere ligne - la traduccion dans la langue naturelle, mais lorsque je nutilise jamais une langue sans la faire plus logic (sauf en italien, ou sa ne fait pas de sense), elle vient avec une orthographe reformée. 3ere ligne - la traduccion en anglis, évidemment auci avec orthographe reformée...

you're right in the sense that the reader gets no reliable sense of what europan actually looks like. i dont even know why i started this thred at that moment, maybe i was drunk... anyway the idea is: 1st line - the natural languages evolve and converge (graddually) into europan, so people can get used to it. 2nd line - the translation in the natural language, but since i never write in a language without making it more logic (except in italian, ware this doesnt make much sense),it comes with a reformed spelling. 3rd line - the translation in english, of course with reformed spelling, too...

en la próxima mensage envio la respuest en europan...
in the next posting i send it in europan...

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-29, 17:44

linguoboy wrote:The name and concept seem awfully similar to Diego Marani's Europanto.


no, no... la nomes is similar, ma la rest... europanto ha no gramatik, ha no reglas, ha no fixo vocabular. europano ha dat al. europanto lase la vordes du sorse linguas as lus is, europano ha fix ortografico reglas. et europano vordes is determinee matematicli - la max importante factor is el internacionalitee, e den ai oso la cortitee, meme si la cortitee is no so important as el internacionalitee. if yu vid un europano vord, yu can bi securo ki dat is la vord ki mouste pople can comprend in europa. if yu vole sa com i calcul el internacionalitee, yu can vi dize video:

no, no... the names ar similar, but the rest... europanto has no grammar, no rules, no fix vocabbulary. europano has that all. europanto leevs the words from the source languages as they ar, europano has fix orthographic rules. and europano words ar determind mathematicly - the most important factor is the internationality, and then thare is also the shortness, eeven if shortness isnt as important as internationality. if you see an europano word, you can be sure that that is the word that most people understand in europe. if you want to know how i calculate the internationality, you can see this veedeo:

https://youtu.be/S4IY1Fnur7A

ma dat is a bit monoton. yu can vi par exemplo la video abaut la portugaliano lingua (completo vercion, solo pro linguaholikis):

but thats a bit boring. you can watch for example the veedeo about the portugase language (compleet version, only for linguaholics):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_apIpXIY8&t=23s

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Re: Europan

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-29, 17:55

Zé do Rock wrote:if you want to know how i calculate the internationality, you can see this veedeo:

Or, you know, you could just explain it here and not force me to go off site. But you do you.

[N.B.: The normative pronunciation of video in all major varieties of English is /ˈvɪdiˌoː/, with a lax stressed vowel. Pronunciations with // are strongly associated with non-native speakers. To my knowledge, <ee> is never used to represent /ɪ/ in English.]
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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-29, 21:25

Naava wrote:Welcome!

mersie...

Btw, if you want to write your messages in more than one language (which is fine), could you put them in separate paragraphs? It was quite difficult to find the English sentences among the wall of text, especially because you didn't use any capitals.
Naava wrote:
OK, eu vad usar maiúsculas... e separar por paragrafos...

OK, eu vou usar maiúsculas... e separar por parágrafos...

OK, i'll use capitals... and seprate by paragrafs...


europan is an euroclone, the difrence from the majority is that it is not predominantly romanic.

What do you mean by this?

Esperanto e saine derivate, auch interlingua, interlingue etc sind alle stark na romanischen linguas orientiert. Europano hat so file germanishe (vor allem englishe, wobai die prononcirung ea deutsh o skandinavish is) wi romanische elemente. Slavishe gibt es weniga, wail die wörder de linguas, die kyrillish ferwenden, nicht so oft enlich sind wi in Resteuropa.

Esperanto und seine derivate, auch interlingua, interlingue etc sind alle stark an die romanischen sprachen orientirt. Europano hat so vile germanishe (vor allem englishe, wobei die aussprache eher deutsh oder skandinavish is) wie romanische elemente. Slavishe gibt es weniger, weil die wörter von sprachen, die kyrillisch verwenden, nich so oft ähnlich sind wie in Resteuropa.

Esperanto and its derivats, also interlingua, interlingue, etc ar all strongly based on romanic languages. Europano has as many germanic (especially english words, eeven if the pronunciation is rather german or scandinavian) as romanic elements. Thare ar fewer slavic words, becaus the words from languages that use cyrillic arnt so similar to words written with the latin alfabet as in the rest of Europa.

the mor international and the shorter, the better the chance of a word becoming the elected word.

What do you mean by "more international"?

Usee by most pople - in europa and in landes overseas dat speak europan languages.
Used by most peeple - in europe and in countries overseas that speak european languages.


has anybody tried to examin the neerness (?) of finno-ugric languages with the turk languages?

Yes. However, like it's said there, "the hypothesis has been widely rejected."
so could it be that eeven belonging to two difrent famlies, thees two famlies ar neerer to eech other than to other famlies?

I don't think I understood what you mean here.

Je serais interessee en savoir if il y a une connexion enter la languas finno-ugriques et la languas turques. Je sais quils sont des familles diferentes, mais peutetre ces sont 2 familles plus proches lune de lautre que par exemple la languas latines et la languas semites...

Je serais interecee en savoir sil y a une connexion entre lee langues finno-ugric ee lee langues turc. Je sais quils sont dee familles diférentes, mais peutetre cee sont 2 familles plus proches lune de lautre que par example lee langues latines ee lee langues semites...

I'd be intrested in knowing if thare is a connection between the finno-ugric languages and the turk languages. I know that they ar difrent families, but maybe thees 2 families ar neerer to eech other than for example the romanic languages and the semite languages...

by the way, i just know haf a dozen words in finnian

Nice! Where have you learnt these words?

En Varanasi, India, con muchachas finlandesas, en Finlandia... es un pueblo super interesant, e super hospitalario, lo que es una raridee en esas latitudes. Yo aprendi mismo una frase complet en finlandés ("Quizás yo no esté de acuerdo con tu opinión, pero defenderé hasta la muerte tu derecho de decirla), pero la olvidé - finlandés no es facil pra un brasilero!

In Varanasi, India, with finnish girls, in Finnland... it is a very intresting peeple, and very hospitable, which is a rarity in such latitudes. I eeven lernd a compleet sentence in finnish ("Maybe i dont agree with your opinion, but i'll fight until my deth for your right to say it!), but i forgot it - finnish is not eesy for a brazilian!

finnish has 'omino ...
kahvipausi (coffee brake...)

*omena, *kahvipaussi :P

Omena... danke... cann es nicht 'omeno' decliniert werden? E wozu paussi mit 2 S? Gibt es a diferenz in der prononcirung?

Omena... danke... kann es nich 'omeno' deklinirt werden? Und wozu paussi mit 2 S? Gibt es ein unterschid in der aussprache?

Omena... thank you... cant it be declinated 'omeno'? And why do you spell 'paussi' with 2 S? Is thare a difrence in the pronunciation?

not for the spelling, tho. that has a sistem...

Would you like to tell more about this?


I left Brazil a long time ago, so i forgot a lot of my portugase, and now i liv in Germany, Saksa or whatever you call it, but as you probably know, laif it too cort to lerne german. So i make mistakes in ale languages, and it's not bad to improve it, e the beste wey is if pople correcte me. But i dont make orthografic mistakes, since i hav my own reglas...

I left Brazil a long time ago, so i forgot a lot of my portugase, and now i liv in Germany, Saksa or however you call it, but as you probbably know, life it too short to lern german. So i make mistakes in all languages, and it's not bad to improve it, and the best way is if peeple correct me. But i dont make spelling mistakes, since i hav my own rules...

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-29, 22:36

linguoboy wrote:Or, you know, you could just explain it here and not force me to go off site. But you do you.

sa serais 15 minutes de video, sa da quelques pages ici... e cuando sales de este sitio, no tienes que pasar frio, quedar en la niev... em princípio: as línguas que tem até 11 milhoes falantes ha peso 10, tanto pra língua scrita como pra falada, daí tem línguas com peso 20, 30 e 40 (pt-es-fr-de-ru), e englêsh tem 80. a word wi 'in' hat 80 punkte vom scribenen english und 80 punkte vom sprochenen. it gets also points for exemple de spanish 'en': E et I ne sont pas la mem, mais ils sont similaires, donc sa vaut 0,5 point. la N es la misma. entao é uma semelhansa de 1,5 numa palavra que podia ter a icualdee, que seria 2 pontos de 2. espanish hat 40 punkte, also 1,5 stet zu 2 wi 30 zu 40, also kriegt 'in' 30 punkte af espanian 'en'. 'en' is also a candidat, e gets 40/40 points from espanish e 60/60 from english. il y a des autres candidats auci, comm I du scandinave, U et V du slavic (la languas non-indoeuropanes ne ha pas preposiciones, elles ha que des cas). bueno, contamos al final la todos puntos e subtraemos la cantidee de letras, cada letra equivale a 10 puntos. cada consoante que no é seguida por vocal equivale a 20 pontos. das word mit der hösten summ is der winner e wird im europan aufnommen.

sa serais 15 minutes de vidéo, sa donn quelques pages ici... y cuando sales de este sitio, no tienes que pasar frio, quedar en la nieve... em princípio: as línguas que tem até 11 milhoes de falants tem peso 10, tanto pra língua scrita como a falada, daí tem línguas com peso 20, 30 e 40 (pt-es-fr-de-ru), e englêsh tem 80. ein wort wie 'in' hat 80 punkte vom geschribenen english und 80 punkte vom gesprochenen. it gets also points for instance from espanish 'en': E et I ne sont pas le meme, mais ils sont similaires, donc sa vaut 0,5 point. la N es la misma. entao é uma semelhansa de 1,5 numa palavra que podia ter a igualdad, que seria 2 pontos de 2. espanish hat 40 punkte, also 1,5 stet zu 2 wie 30 zu 40, also kriegt 'in' 30 punkte vom espanian 'en'. 'en' is also a candidat, and gets 40/40 points from espanish and 60/60 from english. il y a des autres candidats auci, como I du scandinave, U et V du slavic - lee langues non-indoeuropanes nont pas dee préposicions, elles nont que dee cas. bueno, contamos al final todos los puntos y subtraemos la cantidad de letras, cada letra equivale a 10 puntos. cada consoant que nao é seguida por vogal equivale a 20 pontos. das wort mit der höxten summe is der gewinner und wird im europano aufgenommen.

that would be 15 minutes of video, that givs some pages heer... and after all, wen you leev this site you dont hav to freez, or stand in the snow... in principle: the languages that hav less than 11 million speekers hav wate 10, for the written language as well as for the spoken language, then thare ar languages with the wate 20, 30, 40 (thees ar pt-es-fr-de-ru) and english has 80. a word like 'in' has 80 points from the written and 80 points from the spoken english. it gets also points for instance from spanish 'en': E and I arnt the same letter, but they ar similar, so this meens 0,5 point of a possible point. thus espanish 'en' has 1,5 similarity points out of 2 possible points (2 of 2 would meen equality), and since espanish has 40 points, and 1,5 stands to 2 as 30 to 40, spanish 'en' supports 'in' with 30+30 points. and english (or german, italian, etc) 'in' supports espanish/franch 'en' with 60+60 points. of course thare ar other candidats, like I (skandinavian), U and V from slavic languages - the non indoeuropean languages dont hav prepositions, just cases. well, at the end we ad all the points for evry candidat and then we subtract the quantity of letters, evry letter is equivalent to 10 points (written and spoken, offen thare ar difrences). evry consonant wich is not followed by a vowel has 20 points. at the end, the word with most points is the winner and becomes the europano word.

[N.B.: The normative pronunciation of video in all major varieties of English is /ˈvɪdiˌoː/, with a lax stressed vowel. Pronunciations with // are strongly associated with non-native speakers. To my knowledge, <ee> is never used to represent /ɪ/ in English.]


oh! i didnt know dat, bloody hell! i hav spent decadas pronouncing dise word the wrong wey! dat is the vantage de writing with reformed ortografy, all the taime you find aut dat you'v been pronouncing a certan word the wrong wey. for some rason i thaut dat englishe pronounces dis I as /i:/, as it does in so meny loan wordes. thanks for the hint! from now i'll spell 'viddeo'.

oh! i didnt know that, bloody hell! i'v spent deccades pronouncing this word the wrong way! thats the advantage of writing with reformd spelling, all the time you find out that u'v been pronouncing a certan word the wrong way. for some reeson i thaut that english pronounces this I as /i:/, as it does in so many lone words. thanks for the hint! from now i'll spell 'viddeo'.

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Re: Europan

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-29, 22:44

Zé do Rock wrote:the non indoeuropean languages dont hav prepositions, just cases.

:roll:

Zé do Rock wrote:well, at the end we ad all the points for evry candidat and then we subtract the quantity of letters, evry letter is equivalent to 10 points (written and spoken, offen thare ar difrences). evry consonant wich is not followed by a vowel has 20 points. at the end, the word with most points is the winner and becomes the europano word.

And you have performed these calculations for every single word you use in your Europan replies?

Zé do Rock wrote:so many lone words

Here's a nice example of one of the drawbacks of "reformed spelling": this phrase made no sense to me until I realised that "lone words" here meant "loanwords" (i.e. words borrowed from another language) and not "lone words" (i.e. unaccompanied words).
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Re: Europan

Postby Naava » 2018-01-30, 15:52

Something's happened to your quote, so if I don't answer to something you've said, it's probably because it's difficult to see what is your text and what is quote.

OK, i'll use capitals... and seprate by paragrafs...

Thanks! :)

Esperanto and its derivats, also interlingua, interlingue, etc ar all strongly based on romanic languages. Europano has as many germanic (especially english words, eeven if the pronunciation is rather german or scandinavian) as romanic elements. Thare ar fewer slavic words, becaus the words from languages that use cyrillic arnt so similar to words written with the latin alfabet as in the rest of Europa.

So it's a Romanic-Germanic conlang?

I'd be intrested in knowing if thare is a connection between the finno-ugric languages and the turk languages. I know that they ar difrent families, but maybe thees 2 families ar neerer to eech other than for example the romanic languages and the semite languages...

I'd still like to kno what you mean by 'nearness'. The amount of loan words? Something else?

Omena... thank you... cant it be declinated 'omeno'?

The phonemes /i/ and /j/ change /ɑ/ into /o/:

omena - omenoita, omenoja (apple - plural partitive)
kissa - kissoja (cat - plural partitive)
alkaa - alkoi (to start - imperfect)
laittaa - laittoi (to put - imperfect)

So, yes, the A can change into O, but it's part of the phonological rules of Finnish.

And why do you spell 'paussi' with 2 S? Is thare a difrence in the pronunciation?

Yes, there's a difference:

pausi - [pɑusi]
paussi - [pɑus:i]

In case you don't know IPA, the S in paussi is twice longer than in the S in pausi. (I know it's more complicated than that but I don't think this is the right time nor place for longer explanations.)

But i dont make spelling mistakes, since i hav my own rules...

Thats what I meant - I'm interested in hearing more about your spelling rules. Which accent have you based them on? What are these rules? So far I've figured out <ee> is [i:] but that's all. :hmm:

linguoboy wrote:
Zé do Rock wrote:the non indoeuropean languages dont hav prepositions, just cases.

:roll:

:lol:

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-30, 17:37

linguoboy wrote:And you have performed these calculations for every single word you use in your Europan replies?


[flag=]ale[/flag]Non, in beaucoup cas ist evident. Por ejemplo palabras latinas qui también existen in inglish (e quizás in alemán y otre linguas) son casi automaticamente la palabra europan, a no ser qui Todas las otre linguas europeas ha la misma palabra (un otra), lo qui is super raro... Cuando uma palavra é mais ou minos uniforme numa familie e no nas outras, também é facil. Wenn si ainhaitlich in 2 familien is (2 verschidene wörder), dann hangt es maistens fon der lenge ab. But in meni, if not moste cases, you know it in advance or after a cuike serch in a few linguas.

Non, en beaucoup de cas cest évident. Por ejemplo palavras latinas que también existen en inglish (y quizás en alemán y otras lenguas) son casi automaticamente la palabra europan, a no ser que Todas las otras lenguas europeas tengan la misma palabra (una otra), lo que es rarísimo... Cuando uma palavra é mais ou menos uniformi numa família e nao nas outras, tamém é facil. Wenn sie einheitlich in 2 familien is (2 verschidene wörter), dann hängt es meistens von der länge ab. But in many, if not most cases, you know it in advance or after a quik serch in a few languages.

No, in many cases it is evident. For example romanic words that exist also in inglish (and maybe in german and other languages) ar almost automatically the europano word, except wen All other europan languages hav the same word (another one), wich is very rare... Wen a word is mor or less the same in one famly and not in the others, it is eesy too. Wen they ar uniform in 2 famlies, then it depends on the length. But in many, if not most cases, you know it in advance or after a quik serch in a few languages.

Zé do Rock wrote:so many lone words

Here's a nice example of one of the drawbacks of "reformed spelling": this phrase made no sense to me until I realised that "lone words" here meant "loanwords" (i.e. words borrowed from another language) and not "lone words" (i.e. unaccompanied words).[/quote]

Generali les homografs ne sont pas un problem, parce que beaucoup de ces mots appartiennent a classes grammaticales diferentes - o la contexto no deja dudas. Como você sa qui "a glass of wine" no signific um vinho feito de vidro, ou como você sa qui um "light cigarette" no é um cigarro feito de luz? E wenn du nur /loun w3rds/ hören würdest, wüsstest du au was i mene, du würdest da gar nit reflectiren, if das "lone words" haissen cönnte. But in a few cases you hav to get used to it, as pople ar used to the meni thousands of homografs dat exist in ale linguas, speciali in inglish. Et après tout, cist un exprecion interessante, "loan words": cuando van devolverlas???

En général lés omograf ne sont pas un probleme, parce que baucoup de cee mots appartiennent a claces grammaticales diférentes - o el contexto no deja dudas. Como ce sab qui "a glass of wine" nao significa um vinho feito di vidro, ou como ce sab qui um "light cigarette" nao é um cigarro feito di luz? Und wenn du nur /loun w3rdz/ hören würdest, wüsstest du auch was ich meine, du würdest da gar nich überlegen, ob das "lone words" heissen könnte. But in a few cases you hav to get used to it, as peeple ar used to the many thousands of homografs that exist in evry language, especially in inglish. Ee aprai tout, cest une exprecion intéressante, "loan words": cuando van a devolverlas???

In genral homografs arnt such a problem, becaus many of them belong to difrent gramatical classes - or the context doesnt leev space for a misinterpretation. As you know that a "glass of wine" doesnt meen wine made of (the mateerial) glass, as you know that a "light cigarette" is not a cigarett made of lite. And if you just Herd /loun w3rdz/, you'd know too wat i meen, you wouldnt think of it, nevver it could meen 'lonely words'. But in a few cases you hav to get used to it, as peeple ar used to the many thousands of homografs that exist in evry language, especially in inglish. And after all, it is an intresting expression, 'loan words': wen ar you going to giv them bak???

Just in this few lines thare ar enouf examples of homografs:
general - did you think of a military cheef?
classes - did you think of a scool?
space - did you think of outer space?
that - did you think of a demonstrativ pronoun? (on the seccond line, before 'a glass of wine') (germans think it is terribly necessary to make the distinction!)
mean - did you think of somebody who is egoistic or sadistic?
just - did you think of justice?

Should we spell them all difrently?

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Re: Europan

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-30, 18:03

Zé do Rock wrote:And if you just Herd /loun w3rdz/, you'd know too wat i meen, you wouldnt think of it, nevver it could meen 'lonely words'.

That's because the intonation is different. With lone word, both elements take full stress. But loanword has strong stress on the first element and much weaker stress on the second (without it being completely unstressed, at least in most contexts). That's part of the reason for writing loanword as one word and not two.

If you're not taking the 2-4 phonemic levels of English stress into account when coming up with your respellings, you're going to produce more ambiguities of this sort.
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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-30, 22:42

Naava wrote:Something's happened to your quote, so if I don't answer to something you've said, it's probably because it's difficult to see what is your text and what is quote.


eu ainda tou lutando com dises 'quotes'... wo nem i die raus, or ai an isi metode, mi von den andren 'quotes' zu isoliren? der ar so meny de them... et puis, i voulais mettre des frapeaux, saim ha da mig un lien où i les trouve, mas maintenant i ne peux pas le prendre, et i ne trouve pas la lista dans la menu. "flag= you must insert some descriptive text after the =" que quiere decir eso? i tenho qui confessar, i tenho a inteligencia tecnic af um chimpanze debil mental.

eu ainda tou lutando com ecis 'quotes'... wo nem ich die raus, oder gibt es eine leichte metode, mich von den andren 'quotes' zu isoliren? thare ar so many of them... et puis, je voulais mettre dee frapeaux, saim ma donee un lien où je lee trouve, mais mintenant je ne peux pas le prendre, ee je ne trouve pas la liste dans le menu. "flag= you must insert some descriptive text after the =" que quiere decir eso? eu tenho qui confessar, eu tenho a intelijência tecnica di um chimpanzé débil mental.

i'm still struggling with thees quotes... ware do i take them off, or is thare an eesy method to isolate myself from other quotes? thare ar so many of them... and then i wanted to put flags, saim gave me a link ware i found them, but i cant get the link now, from heer, and i dont find the list in the menu. "flag= you must insert some descriptive text after the =" - wat does that meen? i hav to admit, i hav the tecnical intelligence of a moronic chimpanzee.


Naava wrote:So it's a Romanic-Germanic conlang?


teoretisch nit, alle nacionale linguas werden berücksichtigt. but since meni wordes de romanic linguas, speciali latin e franch, spred around in europa, and inglish is so important, the romanic e germanic linguas ar strongly representee. si tu parles inglish (ou mem allman) et une lingua latine, tu peux comprendre 95% du texte. e casi la todo resto is slavo (por ejemplo 'bes' pra 'sin', 'vecher' pra la primera parte de la noche, 'ocno' pra la ventan, etc) - claro, muchas palavras qui consideramos germanicas o latinas las ai también in las linguas slavas. linguas isolee como o finlandês ou o úngaro ha poucas chances de "instalar" uma palavra própria no europano, mas elas podem decidir sobre uma outre palavra, ou seja, elas sao mais electis qui electee politicos... aba wi i ha sei, caum a lingua hat chancen, ain aigenes word, das in kainer andren lingua forkommt, auf europano zu hiven, mit ausname von inglish. why isnt the word for 'mirror' mirror, as in inglish or french? parce que il y a auci finlandais 'peili' et estonien 'peegel' ki aident le mot 'speclo'...

teoretisch nich, alle nationalsprachen werden berücksichtigt. but since many words from romanic languages, especially latin and franch, spred around in europe, and english is so important, the romanic and germanic languages ar strongly represented. si tu parles inglish (ou meme allman) et une langue latine, tu peux comprendre 95% du texte. y casi todo el resto es slavo (por ejemplo 'bes' para 'sin', 'vecher' para la primera parte de la noche, 'ocno' para la ventana, etc) - claro, muchas palavras que consideramos germanicas o latinas las ay también en las lenguas slavas. linguas isoladas como o finlandês ou o húngaro tem poucas chancis di "instalar" uma palavra própria no europano, mais elas podim decidir sobri uma outra palavra, ou seja, elas sao mais eleitoras qui politicos eleitos... aber wie ich sagte, die sprachen haben kaum eine chance, ein eigenes wort, das in keiner andren sprache vorkommt, auf europano zu hiven, mit ausname von inglish. why isnt the word for 'mirror' mirror, as in english or french? parce que il y a auci finlandais 'peili' et estonien 'peegel' ki aident le mot 'speclo'...

theoretically not, since all national languages ar taken into consideration. but since many words from romanic languages, especially latin and franch, spred around in europe, and english is so important, the romanic and germanic languages ar strongly represented. if you speek inglish (or eeven german) and a romanic language, you can understand 95% of it. and almost all the rest is slavic (for instance 'bes' for 'without', 'vecher' for eevening, 'ocno' for the window, etc)- of course, many words we consider inglish or franch or watever exist in slavic languages too, it's all indoeuropean... isolated languages like finnish or hungarian hav little chances to "install" an own word in europan, but they can decide on other words as electors, that is to say, they'r rather electors than elected politicians... but as i sed, the languages hav hardly a chance to put a word of their own in europano, that isnt found in any other language, with exception of english. why isnt the word for 'mirror' mirror, as in english or french? becaus thare is also the finnish word 'peili' and estonian 'peegel', that help the word 'speclo'...

I'd be intrested in knowing if thare is a connection between the finno-ugric languages and the turk languages. I know that they ar difrent families, but maybe thees 2 families ar neerer to eech other than for example the romanic languages and the semite languages...

I'd still like to kno what you mean by 'nearness'. The amount of loan words? Something else?[/quote]

finlandais ist plus proche de lestonien qui du chinois, nestce pas? e finlandés is mas próximo del úngaro qui del swahili, no? com 'mais próximo' i quero dizer qui 2 linguas (ou families) tem uma gramatica mais parecida, mais palavras similaris, etc. finno-ugrish e die türklinguas han mindestens aines gemainsam, die vocal harmonie... e the atavistic hospitalitee, supposedli braut from the central asian stepp...

finlandais est plus proch de lestonian que du chinois, nestce pas? y finlandés es mas próximo del úngaro que del swahili, no? com 'mais próximo' eu quero dizer qui 2 línguas (ou familias) tem uma gramatica mais parecida, mais palavras semelhantes, etc. finno-ugrish und die türksprachen haben mindestens eines gemeinsam, die vokalharmonie... and the atavistic hospitality, supposedly braut from the central asian stepp...

finnish is neerer to estonian than to chinese, isnt it? and finnish is neerer to hungarian than to swahili, isnt it? with 'neerer' i want to say that 2 languages (or famlies) hav a mor similar grammar, mor similar words. finno-ugric and the turk languages hav at leest one thing in common, the vowel harmony... and the atavistic hospitality, supposedly braut from the central asian steppe...

Naava wrote:The phonemes /i/ and /j/ change /ɑ/ into /o/:

omena - omenoita, omenoja (apple - plural partitive)
kissa - kissoja (cat - plural partitive)
alkaa - alkoi (to start - imperfect)
laittaa - laittoi (to put - imperfect)

So, yes, the A can change into O, but it's part of the phonological rules of Finnish.


OK...

Naava wrote:Yes, there's a difference:

pausi - [pɑusi]
paussi - [pɑus:i]

In case you don't know IPA, the S in paussi is twice longer than in the S in pausi. (I know it's more complicated than that but I don't think this is the right time nor place for longer explanations.)


ah, oui, i ha loubliee... is la mismo con úngaro, (creo qui) también turco, japonés...

ah, oui, jai loubliee... es lo mismo con úngaro, (creo que) también turco, japonés...

oh, yes, i had forgotten it... it's the same with hungarian, (i beleev) turkish, japanese...


But i dont make spelling mistakes, since i hav my own rules...

Thats what I meant - I'm interested in hearing more about your spelling rules. Which accent have you based them on? What are these rules? So far I've figured out <ee> is [i:] but that's all. :hmm:

1) cut redundant letters
2) spell the basic 5 short vowels with thare sounds, and if thare is only one consonant following it, you hav to double it (sad-tallent-(he) sed-reddy-bin-wimmen-lot-potter-cum-cumming)
3) spel the basic 5 long vowels ware possible with magic e, except long E: bate-beet-bite-brite-remote-bote-cute-fule. and of corse: e-male! (who prefers can say e-feemale...)
4) F for F - enuf filossofy!

eu inventei um sistema próprio, até mais qui 1, mas o HS (house stile), no cual i tou scrivendo, no é minha invenciao, é a colecciao das mudansas aprovee pela majorie dos membris da TESS (The English Spelling Society). TESS wurde 1908 bai lordis e professoris gründet, au george bernard shaw hat mitmisht, e der lazte richtig becannte shirmherr war prinz philip von england. i was the guy who organized the vote... mais il ne faut pas s'attendre qui toutes les changes soient vidables maintenant, i vas tranquill, on est arrivee a la lettra J, au moment, et il faut arrivee a la lettra Z. ai también RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English, qui is un sistema qui soluciona casi todos la problemas ortograficos del inglish, mas sempre se basing na sistema tradicionali utilizee in el inglish - e sin excepciones...

eu inventei um sistema próprio, até mais qui 1, mais o HS (house stile), no cual eu tou screvendo, nao é minha invensao, é a colessao das mudansas aprovadas pela maioria dos membros da TESS (The English Spelling Society). TESS wurde 1908 von lords und professoren gegründet, auch george bernard shaw hat mitgemischt, und der letzte richtig bekannte schirmherr was prinz philip von england. i was the guy who organized the vote... mais il ne faut pas s'atteindre que tous lee changes soient visibles mintenant, je vais tranquill, on est arrivee a la lettre J, au moment, et il faut arrivee a la lettre Z. ay también RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English, que es un sistema que soluciona casi todos los problemas ortograficos del inglés, pero siempre se baseando en el sistema tradicionalmente utilizado en el inglish - y sin excepciones...

i invented my own sistem, actually eeven 2, but HS (house stile), in wich i'm writing now, is not my invention, it is the collection of changes aproved by the majority of members of TESS, The English Spelling Society. TESS was founded 1908 by lords and professors, eeven george bernard shaw was getting into the act, and the last well knoen patron was prince philip of england. i was the guy who organized the vote... but you shouldnt expect that i apply all the changes heer and now, i go slowly slowly catchy monkey, we'r at letter J and till Z is stil a way to go. by the way thare is also RITE, Redusing Iregularitys in Tradicional English (slogan: Dont spel right, spel RITE!), wich is a sistem that solvs neerly all orthografic problems of the english language, but always basing on english patterns - just without exceptions...


o sistem é basee na dos accentos chav: soudern british standard e general american. HS endat nix was in baiden accenten andas is. if wi had a sistema based on british english, americanis woulnt go along with it, and if wi had a sistema based on the american accent, britis (e the commonwelth) woulnt go along with it... allors on ne peut pas par exemple ecrire 'wotter' pour 'water', parce que les inglis disent 'wauter' - il y a des americanis qui disent 'wauter' auci, mais des autris qui disent 'wotter', beaucoup d'eux ne peuvent pas fare la distinccion inter O court et AU/AW, de toute fasson...

o sistema é basiado nos dois sotacs chav: southern british standard and genral american. HS ändert nix was in beiden akzenten anders is. if we had a sistem based on british english, americanis wouldnt go along with it, and if we had a sistem based on the american accent, britis (and the commonwelth) wouldnt go along with it... allors on ne peut pas par example écrir 'wotter' pour 'water', parce que lés inglis disent 'wauter' - il y a des americanis qui disent 'wauter' auci, mais dés autres qui disent 'wotter', baucoup d'eux ne peuvent pas fer la distinccion entre O court ee AU/AW, de toute fasson...

the sistem is based on the 2 kee accents: southern british standard and genral american. HS doesnt change wat is difrent in both accents. if we had a sistem based on british english, americans wouldnt go along with it, and if we had a sistem based on the american accent, the brits (and the commonwelth) wouldnt go along with it... so we cant for instance spell 'wotter'for 'water', becaus the brits say 'wauter' - thare ar americans who say 'wauter' too, but others say 'wotter', and many cant diferentiate between short O and AU/AW anyway...

linguoboy wrote:
Zé do Rock wrote:the non indoeuropean languages dont hav prepositions, just cases.

:roll:

:lol:[/quote]

:whistle:

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-01-31, 13:19

linguoboy wrote:
Zé do Rock wrote:And if you just Herd /loun w3rdz/, you'd know too wat i meen, you wouldnt think of it, nevver it could meen 'lonely words'.

That's because the intonation is different. With lone word, both elements take full stress. But loanword has strong stress on the first element and much weaker stress on the second (without it being completely unstressed, at least in most contexts). That's part of the reason for writing loanword as one word and not two.

If you're not taking the 2-4 phonemic levels of English stress into account when coming up with your respellings, you're going to produce more ambiguities of this sort.


claro, tu ha razón. mas isso no é culpa do sistem, a culp é main: i tinha skecido ki loanword si scrive junto - talvez porkee i penso im alemao, onde tudo é junto, daí minha lógic é ki no inglish é tudo separee. aba doch nit alles... eniwei in dise case the word is 'lonewords'.

claro, tienes razón. mais isso nao é culpa do sistema, a culpa é minha: eu tinha skecido ki loanword si screv junto - talveiz porkê eu penso im alemao, ond tudo é junto, daí a minha lójica é ki no inglish é tudo separado. aber doch nich alles... anyway in this case the word is 'lonewords'.

sure, you'r rite. but thats not the sistems fault, it was my fault: i had forgotten that loanword is written together - maybe becaus i think in german, ware evrything is put together, then the logic is that in english evrything is seprated. but not evrything... anyway in this case the word is 'lonewords'.

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Re: Europan

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-31, 16:51

Zé do Rock wrote:sure, you'r rite. but thats not the sistems fault, it was my fault: i had forgotten that loanword is written together

Zé do Rock wrote:But i dont make spelling mistakes, since i hav my own rules...

:whistle:
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Re: Europan

Postby Naava » 2018-01-31, 17:39

i'm still struggling with thees quotes... ware do i take them off, or is thare an eesy method to isolate myself from other quotes?

How to take quotations off? Can't you just, you know, not quote people? :D

In case you don't know how the code for quotes works:

► Show Spoiler

isolated languages like finnish or hungarian

How is Finnish an isolated language?

finnish is neerer to estonian than to chinese, isnt it? and finnish is neerer to hungarian than to swahili, isnt it?

Okay, I think what you're trying to say is that they're similar to each other.

finno-ugric and the turk languages hav at leest one thing in common, the vowel harmony

Vowel harmony can be found in many languages. I'm not sure what your point is.

... and the atavistic hospitality, supposedly braut from the central asian steppe...

The what?

1) cut redundant letters

I saw you write <knoen> for /nəʊn/ - why?

2) spell the basic 5 short vowels

What are the 5 basic short and long vowels?

if we had a sistem based on british english, americans wouldnt go along with it, and if we had a sistem based on the american accent, the brits (and the commonwelth) wouldnt go along with it...

Why British and American English? :hmm: Why not Australian? How about other varieties - would they need their own spelling reformation? And if so, why would you group BrE and AmE and not give them both their own spelling reformation?

linguoboy wrote:
Zé do Rock wrote:sure, you'r rite. but thats not the sistems fault, it was my fault: i had forgotten that loanword is written together

Zé do Rock wrote:But i dont make spelling mistakes, since i hav my own rules...

:whistle:

The irony is strong with this one.

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Re: Europan

Postby Zé do Rock » 2018-02-01, 0:34

Naava wrote:How to take quotations off? Can't you just, you know, not quote people? :D


ha-ha.

In case you don't know how the code for quotes works:


(koy)mercie... yo vad intertarlo...

(fr-es)merci... voy a intertarlo...

(en)thanks... wil giv it a try...

How is Finnish an isolated language?


(koy)claro ki la finlandês tem uma familie, mas do ponto de vista do europan, ela é uma lingua cuasi totalik isolee, ela só tem uma irman, uma outre lingua nacional europeia com la cual existe la possibilidee af uma certa comprenciao mútua, ki é el estoniano. das is nit fil... e hungarian is cuaite far awei, for a lingua de la same familie. ou pour le dir avec tai mots, it is not super similar...

(br)(de)(fr)claro ki o finlandeis tem uma família, mais do ponto di vista do europan, ela é uma língua cuasi totalment isolada, ela só tem uma irman, uma outra língua nacional europeia com a cual ixist a pocibilidad di uma certa comprensao mútua, ki é o estoniano. das is nich vil... and hungarian is quite far away, for a language of the same famly. ou pour le dire avec tee mots, ce nest pas trai pareill...

(en)of course finnish has a famly, but from the point of vew of europan, it is an almost compleetly isolated language. it has only one sister, another european national language with wich thare is the possibility of a certan mutual understanding, wich is estonian. thats not much... and hungarian is quite far away, for a language of the same family. or to say it with your words, it is not very similar...

Okay, I think what you're trying to say is that they're similar to each other.


si-si-yes.

Vowel harmony can be found in many languages. I'm not sure what your point is.


in el article da wikipedia lis mencionam multi linguas, e na veridee até mesme la português do brasil tem um pouco, mas é um fenômeno marginal, encuanto nas linguas fino-úgricas e nas línguas turcas é um central aspecto da lingua.

no artigo da wikipedia elis mencionam muitas línguas, i na verdad até mesmo o portugueis do brasil tem um pouco, mais é um fenômeno marjinal, incuanto nas línguas fino-úgricas i nas línguas turcas é um aspecto central da língua.

in the wikipedia article they mention quite a few languages, and in fact thare is a bit of vowel harmony eeven in brazilian portuguese, but it is a marginal fenomenon, wile in the finno-ugric languages and in the turk languages it is a central aspect of the language.

... and the atavistic hospitality, supposedly braut from the central asian steppe...

The what?


(koy)atavistisch bedeutet dass es is in dainem blud, in dain DNA, sait filen generacionen.

(de)atavistisch bedeutet dass es in deinem blut is, in deiner DNA, seit vilen generationen.

(en)atavistic meens that it is in your blood, in your DNA, since many generations.

1) cut redundant letters

I saw you write <knoen> for /nəʊn/ - why?


(koy)now we'r at the letter L, so we can cut the K and spel 'noen'. la forme basik ist 'no': i no, u no. mas como facemos con 'he knows'? 'he nos', 'he nows'? al vantage de couper la lettras inutiles ist ki oni peut par exemple savoir comment oni prononce dise mots: bow /bau/-bow /bou/-blow-brow-glow-grow-cow-crow etc, ce con ne sat pas in inglish. in HS se scribe bo-bow-blo-brow-glo-gro-cow-cro. e, securlisht, 'no', gjithashtu per 'know'. mas no se pode scriver 'nows', primero porkee dise forma sugere uma pronúncia fals, e segundo porkee la vantagem de se sar como scriver um /ou/ final (simplesmente com 'o', e no 'oe', 'oa', 'ow') seria neutralizee cuando você scrive la palavra com um sufixo - la você teria que adivinhar denovo. e man cann auch nit simpli 'nos' scriben, auch das sugerert a false prononcirung, weshalb auch inglishe 'go-goes' scribt. e to 'die' becomes 'di', but you cant spel 'he did last night' wen you want to sei ki he died laste nait. alors cand un mot finit avec une vocal longue, il faut mettre un E cand ce mot ressoit un sufix. the blu dog ate one pi, forgot about all other pies and got the blues.

(fr)(es)(sq)(br)(de)now we'r at the letter L, so we can cut the K and spel 'noen'. la forme basic est 'no': i no, u no. pero como acemos con 'he knows'? 'he nos'? 'he nows'? lavantaj de coupee dee lettres inutiles cest con peut par example savoir comment on prononce cee mots: bow /bau/-bow /bou/-blow-brow-glow-grow-cow-crow etc, ce con ne sait pas en inglish. en HS se escribe bo-bow-blo-brow-glo-gro-cow-cro. dhe, sigurisht, 'no', gjithashtu per 'know'. mais nao si pod screver 'nows', primero porkê essa forma sujeri uma pronúncia errada, i segundo porkê a vantajim di si saber como screver um /ou/ final (simplisment com 'o', i nao 'oe', 'oa', 'ow') seria neutralizada cuando você screv a palavra com um sufixo - la você teria ki adivinhar di novo. und man kann auch nich einfach 'nos' schreiben, auch das sugerirt eine falsche aussprache, weshalb auch inglishe 'go-goes' schreibt. and to 'die' becomes 'di', but you cant spel 'he did last nite' wen you want to say that he died last nite. alors cand un mot finit avec une voyel longue, il faut mettre un E can ce mot ressoit un suffixe. the blu dog ate one pi, forgot about all other pies and got the blues.

(en)now we'r at the letter L, so we can cut the K and spel 'noen'. the basic form is 'no': i no, u no. but how do we do with 'he knows'? 'he nos'? 'he nows'? the advantage of cutting useless letters is that you can no for example how to pronounce thees words: bow /bau/-bow /bou/-blow-brow-glow-grow-cow-crow, etc, and usualy u can just guess it in inglish, if you dont no the word. in HS you spel bo-bow-blo-brow-glo-gro-cow-cro. and, for sure, 'no', also for 'know'. but you cant spel 'nows', first pecaus thees form suggests the wrong pronunciation, and seccond becaus the advantage of noing how to spel a final /ou/ (simply with 'o', and not 'oe', 'oa', 'ow') would be neutralized wen you write the word with a suffix - thare you'd hav to guess agen. and you cant simply spel 'nos', that suggests a wrong pronunciation too, wich is wy english spels 'go-goes'. and to 'die' becomes 'di', but you cant spel 'he did last nite' wen you want to say that he died last nite. so wen a word ends with a long vowel, you hav to put an E wen this word gets a suffix wich is a single consonant. the blu dog ate one pi, forgot about all other pies and got the blues.

2) spell the basic 5 short vowels

What are the 5 basic short and long vowels?


short a, short e, short i, short o, short u, long a, long e, long i, long o, long u.

if we had a sistem based on british english, americans wouldnt go along with it, and if we had a sistem based on the american accent, the brits (and the commonwelth) wouldnt go along with it...

Why British and American English? :hmm: Why not Australian? How about other varieties - would they need their own spelling reformation? And if so, why would you group BrE and AmE and not give them both their own spelling reformation?


(koy)evidentli se podría far una reforma pra al inglishe dialectos e accentos, pra inglishe de liverpool, de glasgow, de dublin, de belize, jamaica, nigeria, malawi, papu niuva guini, cook islands, etc etc etc, mas nadi lo quiere. Ёсць dзесiaткі пісьмовых iнgliскіх варiaнтаў, аlе па меншаi меры, тоlкі аdна пісьмоваia fорма - акрамia за некаlкі аdрозненнiaў паміj амерiканскім і bрiтанскім iнgliскаi. Você leria num livro a palavra 'leet', no saberia o ki ker dizer, teria ki discobrir la nacionalidee af el autor, e - ahhhh, ele é indian, daí você checaria la dicionario indiano pra discobrir ki 'leet' signifi 'late'. so get es nit. amerikis e canadians spik cuaite la same, of corse with a few varieties but after all ai plus diferences betwin the inglishe de new york and el inglish af alabama dan betwin the inglishe de new york e the english af toronto. et normali ales peis de la commonwelth accepta ke el accent "correcte" ist el inglishe du sud af Inglaterr, cist ce ki lis aprennent dans el ecol et ce ki les gens parlent par exemple dans la telee. e la TESS fazo encuestas ki mostraron ki poca gente no kiere 2 o 200 variantes scritas af el inglish.

(es)(bi)(br)(de)(fr)claro que se podría acer una reforma para todos los dialectos y accentos inglish, para el inglishe de liverpool, de glasgow, de dublin, de belize, jamaica, nigeria, malawi, papua nueva guinea, cook islands, etc etc etc, pero nadie lo quiere. Ёсць дзесяткі пісьмовых ангельскіх варыянтаў, але, па меншай меры, толькі адна пісьмовая форма - акрамя за некалькі адрозненняў паміж амерыканскім і брытанскім акрамя ангельскай. você leria num livro a palavra 'leet', nao saberia o ki ker dizer, teria ki discobrir a nacionalidad do autor, i - ahhhh, eli é indiano, daí você checaria o dicionário indiano pra discobrir ki 'leet' significa 'late'. so get es nich. Amerikis and canadians speek quite the same language, of corse with a few varieties but after all thare ar mor difrences between the inglish of new york and the inglish of alabama than between the english of new york and the english of toronto. ee dabitud tous lee pei de la commonwelth acceptent ke laccent "correcte" est l'inglishe du sude d'inglaterr, cest ce kils aprennent dans lécol ee ce ke lee jens parlent par example dans la télee. y la TESS izo encuestas que mostraron que poca jente no quiere 2 o 200 variantes escritas del inglish.

(en)of course we could make a reform for all englishe dialects and accents, for the english of liverpool, of glasgow, of dublin, of belize, jamaica, nigeria, malawi, papua new guinea, cook islands, etc etc etc. but nobody wants that. thare ar dozens - if not hundreds - of englishe variants, but at leest a single written form, except for the few difrences between american and british english. you'd reed in a book the word 'leet', you wouldnt no wat it meens, then you'd hav to find out the authors nationality, and - aaaahh, he's indian, so you'd chek the indian inglishe dictionary to find out that 'leet' meens 'late'. no way. amerikis and canadians speek quite the same language, of course with a few varieties but after all thare ar mor difrences between the english of new york and the english of alabama than between the english of new york and the english of toronto. and usualy all commonwelth countries accept that the "rite accent" is the soudern british accent, this is wat they lern at scool and wat peeple speek for instance on TV. and TESS did some polling on this: few peeple want to hav 2 or 200 written englishe variants.

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Naava
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Re: Europan

Postby Naava » 2018-02-01, 19:50

of course finnish has a famly, but from the point of vew of europan, it is an almost compleetly isolated language. it has only one sister, another european national language with wich thare is the possibility of a certan mutual understanding, wich is estonian. thats not much... and hungarian is quite far away, for a language of the same family. or to say it with your words, it is not very similar...

The languages related to Finnish and spoken somewhat near the areas where Finnish is spoken:

- Estonian
- Meänkieli
- Kven
- Inari Sami
- Skolt Sami
- Kildin Sami
- Northern Sami
- Lule Sami
- Karelian
- Veps
- Võro

This doesn't even include all of the languages there are.
Many of these are spoken within Finland or right next to the border. I admit Võro is a bit farther away, but the only language spoken between Finnish and Võro (geographically speaking, that is) is Estonian.

Whereas the Indo-European languages spoken near the areas where Finnish is spoken are

- Norwegian
- Swedish
- Russian

If there is some minority language I don't know of, please add to the list.

I know you don't count non-national languages, but you still can't say Finnish is an isolated language. It sounds like you're erasing thousands of speakers of languages that don't follow the one language, one nation -idea.

wile in the finno-ugric languages and in the turk languages it is a central aspect of the language.

Except that this central aspect of the language is lacking in a handful of Finno-Ugric languages: all the 9 Sami languages, Permic and Estonian. :P
I still don't know what your point is, but it sounds awfully lot like you're implying that having one common feature between Altaic languages and Finno-Ugric languages makes them related.

now we'r at the letter L, so we can cut the K and spel 'noen'.

Oh, ok, I didn't know the reform wasn't completed yet.

short a, short e, short i, short o, short u, long a, long e, long i, long o, long u.

I saw you promised to show the spelling rules in another topic, so I'll go check them there. Anyway, I'd like to see what exactly you mean when you say short a, e, i etc. Could you give the corresponding spellings for these vowels: RP and AmE?

atavistic meens that it is in your blood, in your DNA, since many generations.

Are you sure it means what you think it does?

Even with your definition, 'atavistic hospitality' doesn't make any sense. Hospitality is about cultural norms, not genes or blood. You need to learn it from someone else, you're not born with it. Besides, you can't compare cultures and decide which one is more hospitable than the other; it all depends on what you expect people to do or say in certain situations and so it's a very subjective concept. Also, I have no idea how this has anything to do with languages.

of course we could make a reform for all englishe dialects and accents, for the english of liverpool, of glasgow, of dublin, of belize, jamaica, nigeria, malawi, papua new guinea, cook islands, etc etc etc. but nobody wants that

I can see why you wouldn't include dialects in your spelling reform, but why did you choose AmE and BrE but not Australian English? Imo it'd make more sense to take two phonologically somewhat similar standard varieties rather than having AmE and BrE in the same spelling system. Why not AmE+Canadian spelling reform? Or if you want to include as many varieties as possible, why not include Australian English?

you'd reed in a book the word 'leet', you wouldnt no wat it meens, then you'd hav to find out the authors nationality, and - aaaahh, he's indian, so you'd chek the indian inglishe dictionary to find out that 'leet' meens 'late'.

Isn't this the exact reason why spelling reforms have been unsuccesful? :)

and usualy all commonwelth countries accept that the "rite accent" is the soudern british accent

Source, please.


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