Neo-Çaleana

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-29, 1:01

Hi,

I had already shared my conlang before, but since then I've done some changes to it. To make a long story short, I wanted to make my conlang seem more "realistic" while still maintaining some of the features I wanted it to have.
A brief description: this is a Romance conlang, based on Latin, influenced by medieval Greek to a similar extent like Arabic influenced Spanish, Germanic and Celtic languages influenced French, and Slavic languages influenced Romanian; with a few Arabic loanwords as well.

Here is the IPA for the alphabet:

Vowels-
Aa [a] Ee [e] Ii, Yy [i] Oo [o] Uu [u]

Consonants-
Bb, Vv = [v]
Cc = [ʃ] before e and i; [k] elsewhere
ch = [k] before e and i
ç = [ʃ] when not before e and i
Dd = [ð]
Ff = [f]
Gg = [ʒ] before e and i; [ɣ]
gh = [ɣ] before e and i
Hh = silent everywhere
Jj = [ʒ]
Ll = [l]
Mm = [m]
Nn = [n]
Ññ = [ɲ]
Pp = [p]
Rr = [r]; [ɾ]
rr = [r]
Ss = [s]
Tt = [t]
th = [θ]
Xx = [x]
Zz = [z]

[v], [ð] and [ɣ] become [b], [d], and [g] after nasal consonants
[l], [m], and [n] assimilate the place of articulation of the following consonant.


Basic Grammar:

Nouns -
Three genders = masculine, feminine, neutral
Two cases = nominative/accusative, dative/genitive

Verbs -
Similar to other Romance languages, verbs are highly inflicted.

Pronouns -

jo = I
tu = you (informal)
elo = he
ela = she
elu = he/she/it (neutral)
nós = we
vós = you (plural) or you (formal)
elos = they (all masculine)
elas = they (all feminine)
ele = they (neutral)

Examples of nouns:

luna (f.) = moon
sole (m.) = sun
astru (n.) = star
selene (f.) = full moon
fengare (n.) = month
mare (m.) = man
muliere (f.) = woman
zahre (f.) = flower

Examples of verbs:

amare = to love
esere = to be
habere = to have
facere = to do; to make
ansare = to forget
recordare = to remember

"Sempre yparxi un'estade pos l'hibernu."
-(There's always a summer after the winter.)
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby linguoboy » 2013-03-29, 1:49

I'm intrigued by your neuter gender. It's tricky to preserve one for neo-Romance languages given the tremendous overlap in forms once final consonants are lost. I'm also surprised to see astru assigned to it given that this presumably derives from aster, a third-declension masculine.
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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-03-29, 2:34

Iparxi_Zoi wrote:elos = they (all masculine)
elas = they (all feminine)
ele = they (neutral)
What pronoun is used for a mix of genders?
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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-29, 4:37

linguoboy wrote:I'm intrigued by your neuter gender. It's tricky to preserve one for neo-Romance languages given the tremendous overlap in forms once final consonants are lost. I'm also surprised to see astru assigned to it given that this presumably derives from aster, a third-declension masculine.


All neutral (I say neutral because neuter gender applies only to things cross-linguistically and in my language it also applies to people) nouns preserved the final -u from Vulgar Latin (itself originally from the -um accusative singular in Classical Latin) while in masculine nouns it evolved to an -o. I know it seems a little unnatural, but it can be explained as an attempt by people to distinguish the masculine from the neuter, rather than merge them as with other natural Romance languages.

Also, astru doesn't derive from Latin; it derives from the Greek άστρο, which is neuter.
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-29, 4:38

Dormouse559 wrote:
Iparxi_Zoi wrote:elos = they (all masculine)
elas = they (all feminine)
ele = they (neutral)
What pronoun is used for a mix of genders?


ele is :) The neutral gender is the default gender, like the masculine gender in natural Romance languages.
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-03-29, 4:57

Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I say neutral because neuter gender applies only to things cross-linguistically and in my language it also applies to people
I don't know if that's really a good reason. Grammatical genders are incredibly arbitrary and their usage and distribution vary from language to language. German, for instance, uses the neuter gender for some human nouns, such as Mädchen "girl" and Fräulein "unmarried woman".

It might make sense to say that Çaleana's neuter gender is gender-neutral.
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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-29, 5:10

Dormouse559 wrote:
Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I say neutral because neuter gender applies only to things cross-linguistically and in my language it also applies to people
I don't know if that's really a good reason. Grammatical genders are incredibly arbitrary and their usage and distribution vary from language to language. German, for instance, uses the neuter gender for some human nouns, such as Mädchen "girl" and Fräulein "unmarried woman".

It might make sense to say that Çaleana's neuter gender is gender-neutral.


I do know that grammatical gender is not directly related to biological gender and also that neuter can be used for human nouns :D . I was referring to the neuter gender in terms of pronouns, for example: in other Indo-European languages the neuter 3rd person pronoun can be translated into English as "it", and one would never refer to a person as an "it". I meant to say that the neuter gender can be applied to people in all contexts, and yes, you are right, it gives the speaker a way to refer to people in a gender-neutral way.
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-03-29, 5:17

Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I do know that grammatical gender is not directly related to biological gender and also that neuter can be used for human nouns :D . I was referring to the neuter gender in terms of pronouns, for example: in other Indo-European languages the neuter 3rd person pronoun can be translated into English as "it" […]
Unless the pronoun is referring to a human, in which case any translators worth their salt will use the correct human pronoun in English. German would use its neuter pronouns and declensions to refer a Mädchen even though girls are demonstrably human, and I doubt any German speaker would think it strange.

In any case, I don't know why you're defining your conlang's gender system in terms of English, a language with vestigial gender at best.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-29, 5:25

Dormouse559 wrote:
Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I do know that grammatical gender is not directly related to biological gender and also that neuter can be used for human nouns :D . I was referring to the neuter gender in terms of pronouns, for example: in other Indo-European languages the neuter 3rd person pronoun can be translated into English as "it" […]
Unless the pronoun is referring to a human, in which case any translators worth their salt will use the correct human pronoun in English. German would use its neuter pronouns and declensions to refer a Mädchen even though girls are demonstrably human, and I doubt any German speaker would think it strange.

In any case, I don't know why you're defining your conlang's gender system in terms of English, a language with vestigial gender at best.


You do have a point there :) . My language has a three-gender system, and the neuter/neutral is the default. Let's leave it at that.
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

Esmelthien

Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Esmelthien » 2013-03-29, 23:20

Dormouse559 wrote:
Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I do know that grammatical gender is not directly related to biological gender and also that neuter can be used for human nouns :D . I was referring to the neuter gender in terms of pronouns, for example: in other Indo-European languages the neuter 3rd person pronoun can be translated into English as "it" […]
Unless the pronoun is referring to a human, in which case any translators worth their salt will use the correct human pronoun in English. German would use its neuter pronouns and declensions to refer a Mädchen even though girls are demonstrably human, and I doubt any German speaker would think it strange.

In Dutch, people tend to refer to a meisje (girl) as female (e.g. using zij, ze, haar), even though the word is neuter and uses the neuter definite article het.

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Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-30, 0:39

Esmelthien wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:
Iparxi_Zoi wrote:I do know that grammatical gender is not directly related to biological gender and also that neuter can be used for human nouns :D . I was referring to the neuter gender in terms of pronouns, for example: in other Indo-European languages the neuter 3rd person pronoun can be translated into English as "it" […]
Unless the pronoun is referring to a human, in which case any translators worth their salt will use the correct human pronoun in English. German would use its neuter pronouns and declensions to refer a Mädchen even though girls are demonstrably human, and I doubt any German speaker would think it strange.

In Dutch, people tend to refer to a meisje (girl) as female (e.g. using zij, ze, haar), even though the word is neuter and uses the neuter definite article het.


My point exactly, I wanted to provide an option of referring to a person without having to pick between he and she. :)
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Real Name: Sal
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Neo-Çaleana

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2013-03-30, 1:02

Here are the colors. When used as nouns, they are masculine:

rubro = red
cítrino = yellow
galano = blue
naranja = orange
verde = green
violeta = purple
café = brown
mauro = black
albo = white
roza = pink
grizo = gray
fairuze = turquoise
:)
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: [flag=español mexicano (Mexican Spanish)]es-MX[/flag] [flag=español (Spanish)]es[/flag] American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: [flag=français (French)]fr[/flag]
In love with/Me encantan: [flag=ελληνικά (Greek)]el[/flag] [flag=português (Portuguese)]pt[/flag]
Also intested in/También me interesarían: [flag=العربية (Arabic)]ar[/flag] [flag=italiano (Italian)]it[/flag] [flag=Türkçe (Turkish)]tr[/flag]


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