General Conlang Discussion

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Koko
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2016-01-21, 8:29

Do it :twisted: I would say go for /ø/, but I'm biased towards it since that's really the only front rounded vowel I like :whistle: Or for both ^^ (up to you)

Yeah, using the same vowel inventory can get really boring. Which is why in my latest experimental conlang I'm making use of back mid unrounded vowels /ʌ/ and /ɤ/ as well as the central vowel /ɨ/ which I never use because I always hated how it sounded :lol: (there's also /ø, œ, y, øː/ and /yː/) Oh, that also reminds me, I'm actually doing vowel length too in this conlang :mrgreen: I've done it before, but never stuck with it and it always felt weird. But in this one, it feels like I'm doing an okay job with it.

Anyways, totally go for it Bheljo! Trying new inventories is always fun. ;) In fact, I'm sure the majority of the fun I've had with Isyan is by cause of its difference in vowel inventory.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Mentilliath » 2016-01-21, 17:52

Levike wrote:
Mentilliath wrote:I really need to create a conlang with /œ/ or /ø/.

Can't you just add it to one of your conlangs?


I could add it to one of the less-developed ones. Halvian is set in its PIE-derived vowels, but I could add it to a different one.

Dormouse559 wrote:Do it! Do it! The front rounded vowels are really something. I'm partial to /y/, especially the French version of it, which is so tense that it's often accompanied by really strong frication (same with /i/). :D Just imagine: a vowel creating a consonant out of nowhere!


I like /y/ as well. I especially like it in Ancient Greek, even if I can’t hear any native speakers use it.

Koko wrote:Do it :twisted: I would say go for /ø/, but I'm biased towards it since that's really the only front rounded vowel I like :whistle: Or for both ^^ (up to you)

Yeah, using the same vowel inventory can get really boring. Which is why in my latest experimental conlang I'm making use of back mid unrounded vowels /ʌ/ and /ɤ/ as well as the central vowel /ɨ/ which I never use because I always hated how it sounded :lol: (there's also /ø, œ, y, øː/ and /yː/) Oh, that also reminds me, I'm actually doing vowel length too in this conlang :mrgreen: I've done it before, but never stuck with it and it always felt weird. But in this one, it feels like I'm doing an okay job with it.

Anyways, totally go for it Bheljo! Trying new inventories is always fun. ;) In fact, I'm sure the majority of the fun I've had with Isyan is by cause of its difference in vowel inventory.


Vowel length is really the only thing that prevents the Halvian vowels from being totally dull--that and diphthongs. But that's because I really wanted Halvian to have the vowel system of PIE/Old Latin and I didn't want to deviate from that.

I actually really like /ɨ/. It sounds great in Turkish. (though some people say that the sound in Turkish is actually /ɯ/ and I think it's interesting that different sources disagree. I hear both when I listen to Turkish music).

Galsaic at least is differentiated by heavy use of /ə/, /ɨ/, and nasal vowels, but other than that I haven’t made use of vowels outside the 5-vowel inventory and I haven’t really used front-rounded. If I do anything with Vinyese, my newest conlang that's only in the most rudimentary stages, it will have these vowels since its phonology is influenced by Uralic. I was studying the languages I like the sound of most: Estonian, Finnish, Norwegian, Romanian, etc. and it seemed like most of them had front-rounded vowels (minus Romanian, but Romanian’s use of /ə/ and /ɨ/ influenced Galsaic).
Primary Conlang: Halvian
Additional conlangs: Hesternese (Aikedenejo), Galsaic (sister language of Halvian), and Ogygian (unrelated to the others.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2016-03-25, 6:14

I have come up with quite an interesting type of word play in Isyan: a sentence constructed of a string of words that, at first seem to mean nothing together, but when split up form a comprehensible sentence.

Eg. Pro anorva ore sejangue ve
think-1s.PAST plum-NOM.SG now-ACC.SG throat-INE.SG use-3s.SUB.PRES
(well, "pro" could also be thought, and "ve" a multitude of persons, but no matter what way you gloss the sentence, it don't make sense)

What it really is, is: Pro an or va oresejan gueve.
thought-ACC.SG no now use-1s.PRES eat-INF thing-ACC.SG
I give no thought into eating my food now.

I wonder what other weird sentences I can make :lol: (the trick is to make the nonsensical sentence still technically grammatical)

RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-02, 18:01

Are there any Features Fusional/Polysynthetic languages tend to have that non fusional polysynthetic languages don't have?

RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-09, 22:30

⁄⁄——⁄⁄How to produce an Unambiguos Process for turning a Given Abstract String,
threw a non-trivial transformation process which for each letter Produces a different letter Depending on placement, and produces a string of the same length.
Where transformation process may occur Either in Simultaneously or may not occur simultaneously as-well as occurring in any given sequence.
And from the result you return both the abstract string, and the transformation process that was used.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby OldBoring » 2016-04-10, 8:47

RubyH wrote:⁄⁄——⁄⁄How to produce an Unambiguos Process for turning a Given Abstract String,
threw a non-trivial transformation process which for each letter Produces a different letter Depending on placement, and produces a string of the same length.
Where transformation process may occur Either in Simultaneously or may not occur simultaneously as-well as occurring in any given sequence.
And from the result you return both the abstract string, and the transformation process that was used.

wut?

RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-10, 12:17

OldBoring wrote:
RubyH wrote:⁄⁄——⁄⁄How to produce an Unambiguos Process for turning a Given Abstract String,
threw a non-trivial transformation process which for each letter Produces a different letter Depending on placement, and produces a string of the same length.
Where transformation process may occur Either in Simultaneously or may not occur simultaneously as-well as occurring in any given sequence.
And from the result you return both the abstract string, and the transformation process that was used.

wut?

I want to apply sound changes to my language where the sound changes which works by using transofmrations which are essentially different for all of my letters, – but I’m wondering how to make a system which results in me being certain that I didn't generate any ambiguity.
Such that if I take a valid input, apply any allowed series of transformations are simultaneously or in a specific order, I get a only one valid output and this valid output tells me both how 1. I transformed the original, and B, What the original was prior to these sound changes.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby razlem » 2016-04-13, 0:07

Yeah I'm kinda lost with what you're looking for too. Like just tracking the order of the sound changes? Or are you looking for a sound change program where you can just enter a sound and have it go through each rule? (if the latter, I'm not sure it exists yet, though it doesn't seem that it'd be too hard to program)
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Dormouse559 » 2016-04-13, 3:09

If I understand correctly, she wants a set of sound changes designed so that, seeing the result, she can know with complete certainty what the original was and what series of changes connects the two. It sounds basically like a cipher to me.
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RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-13, 10:15

razlem wrote:Yeah I'm kinda lost with what you're looking for too. Like just tracking the order of the sound changes? Or are you looking for a sound change program where you can just enter a sound and have it go through each rule? (if the latter, I'm not sure it exists yet, though it doesn't seem that it'd be too hard to program)

Yeah sorry for not clear communication, <>… I’m looking for how to construct a system of sound changes that doesn't result in any potential clashing, unless I want it too of course.

Dormouse559 wrote:If I understand correctly, she wants a set of sound changes designed so that, seeing the result, she can know with complete certainty what the original was and what series of changes connects the two. It sounds basically like a cipher to me.

this is correct except not for use as a cipher,
I want to use it for a conlang, to mark grammatical changes.
as well as sometimes Phonosemantics.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby hashi » 2016-04-13, 20:25

RubyH wrote:I’m looking for how to construct a system of sound changes that doesn't result in any potential clashing, unless I want it too of course.

I'm not really sure what you want from us though in regards to this. If you want to create a system of sound changes without overlaps, why don't you just do it? haha.

RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-14, 14:58

hashi wrote:
RubyH wrote:I’m looking for how to construct a system of sound changes that doesn't result in any potential clashing, unless I want it too of course.

I'm not really sure what you want from us though in regards to this. If you want to create a system of sound changes without overlaps, why don't you just do it? haha.


Lets reformulate my question first question is how do I ask better questions.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby hashi » 2016-04-14, 19:55

Try being more specific about what you need. Include some examples, or a more specific description of what you need. Also try less run-on sentences as they make it difficult to parse your questions/statements ;)

RubyH

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby RubyH » 2016-04-15, 9:26

hashi wrote:Try being more specific about what you need. Include some examples, or a more specific description of what you need. Also try less run-on sentences as they make it difficult to parse your questions/statements ;)

I’m not sure what the standard notation is but ismply
The Rule would depend on voicing so sounds with different voicing,
Their would be different systems of sound changes depending on the voicing and the position of a sound, so that the sound changes aren't trivial.
The question is how can I make a system where I can combine two or more rule sets, or put them in series in order to create different meanings, such that for each input their is still just one output with no overlap, and only one result for any application of any allowed sequence or series of rules.
I want to make a conlang where I have very non trivial sound changes marking several pieces of grammatical information as-well as some derivation.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Núria Harket » 2016-04-19, 6:27

Hi

I don't know if this can be useful: https://t.co/gXR4Fg6QkF

ShounenRonin

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby ShounenRonin » 2016-04-23, 13:43

Can you have one pronoun that means I,me, and my? For my conlang, the word tovo can mean any of those depending on the context.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Dormouse559 » 2016-04-23, 14:32

Yes, that's called syncretism, when multiple forms of a word are identical, and it's pretty common cross-linguistically. English has some examples. For instance, the subject and object forms of the second-person pronoun: you and you; the object and possessive forms of the feminine third-person singular: her and her.

Note this only qualifies as syncretism if other analogous words do have distinct forms for those categories. We can say "you" is syncretic because other pronouns, like the first-person (I, me), have distinct forms. If none of your pronouns changed, whether it appeared as a subject, object or possessive, I'd just say it had a single form, which is also fine.
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby v3luotianyi » 2016-05-09, 5:00

How do u categorize your conlang's adjective?

This is how i tried it but its not yet perfect: traits (ex: beautiful, ugly), amount (indefinite: many, few; definite: the numbers), size (big, small, long, short, medium, thick, thin), distance (far, near), color, degree (hot, cold, superior, inferior), quality (sturdy, dull), condition (new, old)

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby hashi » 2016-05-09, 5:24

I don't. Adjectives are the most narrow category I use ;)

ShounenRonin

Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby ShounenRonin » 2016-05-31, 12:51

Are five vowel conlangs cliched?

All of my earlier projects had five vowels and the phonemes were based on Spanish vowels.

In my current project, I have five vowels, but changed the phonemes for a couple of them. They are /a/, /ɛ/, /i/, /o/, and /ʊ/. I am thinking of reducing it to three or four like what alot of Amerindian languages have. Maybe have O be both /o/ and /ʊ/ or even /ɔʊ/according to the situation or some sort of accent and I represent both /i/ and /ɛ/.

If I go with five basic vowels, I think u will be /u/ and /ɯ/.

How could I do this, especially if O has three possible phoneme variations?

I also don't think it would make sense for O to have some sort of accent marks and phoneme variations and not others.

I know that in Quechua, the sounds for a, u and i can change if they are next to a Q. Normally, they are /æ/, /ɪ/, and /ʊ/, but when next to a Q become /a/, /ɛ/, and /o/, IIRC.


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