Angos

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razlem
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-01-17, 23:29

Grr. Keep hitting a block with "why". In order to not have any more correlatives, I have this clunky work-around: "mate kove kinoo" (in order for what reason).

I hate adding more particles, but I think in this case it would make things a bit easier. And what lazier particle for me to create than "wae"? :P
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Re: Angos

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-01-18, 0:55

You could add a new row to the correlative table. It could be "reason" or something similar. On the other hand, I'm not sure how useful some of those combinations would be (few + reason stands out).
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-01-18, 3:14

Yeah I can't think of a situation in which they'd be used. I've looked at their counterparts in Esperanto, and those aren't used much either (cxial [all reasons] has no established use at all, apparently).

I think I can get away with just a particle. I have "sayu" for 'therefore/as a result', taking care of the proximal and distal; And I can just use "*ove kinoo" as a response if needed.
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-01-28, 4:42

Following the logic above, I'll have to add a particle for "how", as the current work-around "tongwe kove tedo" is fairly unsuccinct-

How do you do this? - To dewe tongwe kove tedo?
vs.
How do you do this? - To senme dewe?


Also, a question: Do you prefer a new set of correlatives for 'amount', or keep the existing structure?
Currently:
How much - kove meno
a lot - bali meno (lit. 'great amount')
a lot of X - bali X-meno
(the 'X-meno' structure is the one that I'm iffy about, does it seem natural to do?)

Proposed:
How much - kime
a lot - valime
a lot of X - valime X
(It would act like 'kove' in that it could be either an object or an object modifier)
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-08, 2:36

I'm writing a grammar handbook :) I'd eventually like to get it printed in paperback or (inshallah) hardcover.

But before I do all that, I have to actually finish the language XD
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Re: Angos

Postby Kaylee » 2013-02-09, 4:47

Wow razlem, Angos has certainly gone a long way since you created the thread. Congratz! :waytogo:

I just downloaded the dictionary pdf you posted a few pages bac and have taken a long look through it. It is put together very well! Also, love the word "nagao". :yep:

I couldn't watch your audio course on page seven though. Are they up someplace else that I may listen to?

*You should edit the main post linking to these things, though. Would be easier for people to find them and see what you have done. :)
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-09, 20:50

Thanks Kaylee!

I took down the audio courses because the language had changed so much in terms of syntax, but the Hacking Angos course on Memrise has audio included. I'll put all the links in the OP, good idea :wink:
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Re: Angos

Postby Kshaard » 2013-02-09, 21:43

Slight niggle here - I'm not sure it even belongs on this thread but is "ce" even a word in Angos any more? It's not on the Memrise courses or in the Kalim-Bukos so what is used now instead?
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-10, 0:12

My mistake, yes it is. Just added it to the dictionary and memrise course.
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Re: Angos

Postby Ashucky » 2013-02-10, 0:17

razlem wrote:I'm writing a grammar handbook :) I'd eventually like to get it printed in paperback or (inshallah) hardcover.

But before I do all that, I have to actually finish the language XD

Yay, I'm not the only one who's doing that. :D I've already done one years ago but the language changed so much that it's useless now. xD
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Re: Angos

Postby Kaylee » 2013-02-10, 4:41

razlem wrote:Thanks Kaylee!

I took down the audio courses because the language had changed so much in terms of syntax, but the Hacking Angos course on Memrise has audio included. I'll put all the links in the OP, good idea :wink:


You're welcome!

Ah, I understand. I am checking out the first page now and will edit once I am done. Can't wait to hear it! :)
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Learning:lkt (lkt) Next: ru (ru) af (af) bo (bo) ar (ar) cy (cy)/gd (gd)

Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-10, 5:10

The audio isn't great quality, and my American probably seeps in a bit... :ohwell:
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-18, 5:38

I think the only thing I need now is a proper dictionary and the language will be finished :para:

Unless anyone else can think of something that I've missed.
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Re: Angos

Postby language learner » 2013-02-19, 20:39

I know you're probably tired of this questions, but Im going to ask anyway if the grammar which you have recently uploaded on the forums is the final one.

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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-02-20, 2:31

Well, the one I have linked is only a general overview. I'm currently writing a full, complete grammar, and I hope to have that up by next month.

I can say that the grammar in that document is final, but the grammar as a whole is in the process of becoming finalized.
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Re: Angos

Postby language learner » 2013-03-03, 17:05

Wo sona.
- I sleep.
Wo sona lo.
- I cause him/her to fall asleep
This would be very confusing. AFAIK such shift of meaning depending on the presence of an object is a typical SAE feature. To say the least, for each verb two definitions would need to be learned - one for direct object and one for no object.
I suggest one of these:
-keep the current situation, but add some element to mark that the transitive verb is causative
-make some verbs such as this one only intransitive
-make the semantic change smaller and more intuitive, no causatives. For this specific verb I'd suggest "I dream about him/her"
Because there are no inherent verb roots in Angos, the meaning of a word with the verbending is dependent on the context of the noun root used. For example,
ota
, from theroot
ot-
meaning "fire", does not inherently mean "burn". It is instead any action relatedto the use of "fire" in context.
Vao ota.
- The tree is burning.
Wo ota momos.
- I light the candle. (in this sense, applying fire to something)
Again, it'd be very confusing to not know when the (derived) meaning is causative and when not.

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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-03-03, 20:38

имен wrote:
Wo sona.
- I sleep.
Wo sona lo.
- I cause him/her to fall asleep
This would be very confusing. AFAIK such shift of meaning depending on the presence of an object is a typical SAE feature. To say the least, for each verb two definitions would need to be learned - one for direct object and one for no object.
I suggest one of these:
-keep the current situation, but add some element to mark that the transitive verb is causative
-make some verbs such as this one only intransitive
-make the semantic change smaller and more intuitive, no causatives. For this specific verb I'd suggest "I dream about him/her"


I agree, it's an ambiguous example. But it's just to show the extent of verb ambitransitivity. I wouldn't say this particular statement unless the listener knew what the context was. For example, you're babysitting, and the parents come home and ask: Bebeo koye?

Wo sona lo
I(natural noun) sleep(action) [3PS](natural noun)

A causative form does exist (with the verb koda), which you could also use in this context if you're worried about confusion: Wo koda lo sona. Alternatively, you can just say Lo sona.

In short, causativity depends on context.
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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-03-13, 18:35

Just an update, I'm nearing the end of writing a grammar book for Angos, and I need funding for editing and manufacturing costs. If you'd like to donate, you can visit http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/198 ... e_location

Donating is all or nothing, which means you don't get charged anything if the project doesn't reach its goal.

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Re: Angos

Postby razlem » 2013-03-25, 4:50

Kind of a big change, but I think this will make things a bit simpler and more regular. I've gotten rid of the table of correlatives and now just have a row of determiners:

k, f, d, m, y, fet, val, os, n (the same radicals as the table)

But, these radicals are inflected like normal roots:

ko - what
ki - which
ka - do what
ku - how
ki omo - who
ki oyo - where
ki ceo - when
ki kodo - why
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Re: Angos

Postby Fox Saint-Just » 2013-04-19, 8:19

I have started reading the grammar yesterday. So far it seems a really good project.
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