Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

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Fox Saint-Just
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Fox Saint-Just » 2014-07-23, 9:53

mōdgethanc wrote:Aes' gwylyth, laith maer!


Which means? (I attempted a mix-and-match translation, but it turned out you easily hate your mayor or there's something about a language. And then there's "gwylyth".)
Native: [flag=]it[/flag] [flag=]egl[/flag] B2: [flag=]en[/flag] Intermediate: [flag=]de[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] Curious about: [flag=]ru[/flag] [flag=]hy[/flag] [flag=]eu[/flag] [flag=]nah[/flag] [flag=]ga[/flag] [flag=]sr[/flag]
[flag=]art[/flag] Currently developing Ardlang: http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=40076.

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-23, 17:56

Fox Saint-Just wrote:Which means? (I attempted a mix-and-match translation, but it turned out you easily hate your mayor or there's something about a language. And then there's "gwylyth".)
It means "you're incredibly gullible for trying to translate a sentence in a nonexistent language I made up on the spot".

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Fox Saint-Just » 2014-07-23, 20:03

T'è sèmper simpàtic cóm un gatèn atachè ai maròn.

Translation: Actually I'm extremely masochistic to still expect you to say something useful or remotely funny.
Native: [flag=]it[/flag] [flag=]egl[/flag] B2: [flag=]en[/flag] Intermediate: [flag=]de[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] Curious about: [flag=]ru[/flag] [flag=]hy[/flag] [flag=]eu[/flag] [flag=]nah[/flag] [flag=]ga[/flag] [flag=]sr[/flag]
[flag=]art[/flag] Currently developing Ardlang: http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=40076.

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Expressionism
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Expressionism » 2014-08-03, 16:23

Most of the time, the things that people are mentioning here aren't bad, it's just the reasoning behind them that isn't very good.

There's nothing wrong with making a language that follows the grammar of your native language closely, has a bunch of grammatical features, has a letter that is pronounced in two completely different ways, or is a romlang. Those things, by default, do not a bad conlang make.

What makes a bad conlang is not knowing why you're including those features. If you want to make a conlang that sticks closely to the grammar of your native language, you should try to learn why your native language has the grammar it does. If you want to make a romlang, you should learn about Romance languages over the centuries, not just mix French and Italian. This kind of thing goes for any feature you're including. Any feature can seem pointless or annoying if you're just including it to look cool, even if it makes absolutely no sense. If your language isn't from a fictional universe whose rules you've made up by yourself, there's lots of principles you should learn about and use in figuring out how to make your language sound as good as possible.

However, if people don't want to do those things and can't bother creating a complex language, I'm not going to be pissed off. Conlangs are fun, but it's not a major issue at the end of the day. If someone makes a language that isn't great but they had fun creating it or it was a good way to learn, it sounds like that's a good thing.

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby SostiMatiko » 2014-08-06, 6:25

No point to be pissed off, people! EVERY natlang and every conlang is PERFECT for the purpose it has been created for.
And so, SostiMatiko, too, is perfect for its purpose: being a minimal language of 222 basic words that can be learned within one day but still capable of expressing practically everything. Also being ideal for exercising the intellect and for what its name says: Sosti (making correct, righteous) Matiko (all that has to do with eyes): that is, to heal the root of all disease which is envy, and replace it with righteousness. This means not to envy what is good: instead, if you see something good, promote it.
Until now i have not received any critique or even a comment for improving some point, so this confirms what i said.
But still critique or comments on any specific point regarding my conlangs is welcome.
thank you.
ॐ भूर् भु॑वः सुवः त॑त् सवितु॑र् व॑रेणियं भ॑र्गो देव॑स्य धीमहि धि॑यो यो॑ नः प्रचोद॑यात्

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-06, 14:27

SostiMatiko wrote:Until now i have not received any critique or even a comment for improving some point, so this confirms what i said.

The logic of this statement is absolutely impeccable.
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Ahzoh » 2014-08-06, 17:57

SostiMatiko wrote:Until now i have not received any critique or even a comment for improving some point, so this confirms what i said.

I hope you realized the logical fallacy you just stated.
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby SostiMatiko » 2014-08-11, 11:48

Surely, when people avoid even to criticise it, there is at least one reason for it. I figure out more reasons than i said.
ॐ भूर् भु॑वः सुवः त॑त् सवितु॑र् व॑रेणियं भ॑र्गो देव॑स्य धीमहि धि॑यो यो॑ नः प्रचोद॑यात्

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-11, 13:38

SostiMatiko wrote:Surely, when people avoid even to criticise it, there is at least one reason for it.

It's not that premise which is dubious.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Ahzoh » 2014-08-11, 16:00

SostiMatiko wrote:Surely, when people avoid even to criticise it, there is at least one reason for it. I figure out more reasons than i said.


That's not why it's illogical. It's illogical because it's confirmation bias towards the first sentence in your post.

And maybe the people who would criticize it just aren't interested in your language enough to invest time into it!
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-11, 16:19

Ahzoh wrote:
SostiMatiko wrote:Surely, when people avoid even to criticise it, there is at least one reason for it. I figure out more reasons than i said.

That's not why it's illogical. It's illogical because it's confirmation bias towards the first sentence in your post.

More fundamentally, it's also an appeal to ignorance.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Ahzoh » 2014-08-11, 16:37

linguoboy wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
SostiMatiko wrote:Surely, when people avoid even to criticise it, there is at least one reason for it. I figure out more reasons than i said.

That's not why it's illogical. It's illogical because it's confirmation bias towards the first sentence in your post.

More fundamentally, it's also an appeal to ignorance.


That is exactly the definition I was looking for.
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Kshaard » 2014-08-12, 12:08

This sort of discussion about an unrelated subject is one reason so many people have moved over to /r/conlangs from here recently.
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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby loqu » 2014-08-12, 12:35

Good riddance I say.

(To elaborate, this is a discussion board. If you can't stand discussions you shouldn't visit a discussion board. If you want it to stay on topic, stay on topic yourself and ignore what you deem off-topic, because to other users the 'off-topic' discussion may actually be on topic.)

I don't have time anymore, but when I did, I had a really great time romlanging. It's not that Romance languages are the only source of inspiration for me, it's that I really have fun messing with Latin. In fact, I didn't really enjoy defining vocabulary, but I loved setting up the sound shift definitions, then for the actual words I just chose the Latin term and used some automated tool. Also I loved choosing the grammar features, like 'what if this language would have preserved *this* Latin feature that Romance languages lost?'. For example, one of my romlangs used a negation adverb coming from Latin haud instead of non, or choosing not to diss the whole declension by setting up a nominative/oblique system.

I should retake my romlangs.
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-12, 12:49

Kshaard wrote:This sort of discussion about an unrelated subject is one reason so many people have moved over to /r/conlangs from here recently.

Citation, please.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby SostiMatiko » 2015-02-08, 10:33

hashi wrote:I need to get this off my chest, but it annoys me when:
  • a noob comes along and learns about phonetics and realises there's more sounds than just English ones and they get this omg-i-have-to-have-ALLOFTHEM mentality
  • they think every sound, and every single variation of such needs to be represented by a unique letter (combine this with the first point and you're destined for disastrous creations like čȧûļnó òṽë đðªjŋœªøþĸ$ł€øđ€łjøªþ$£@jœþŋðđµ. Yes, you can have it be totally representative if that was a conscious choice, not if that's the only thing you can do.
  • "My language is like.. what happens if Spanish is raped up the ass by French", cause these are the only languages in existence you can take ideas from. Romlangs are not cool.
  • Ok, now personally I am one for breaking convention, so it really pisses me off when people say "you <x> for /θ/ because no other language does". Is this not the point in conlanging?? Gosh.
  • And then we have the knobs who think that replacing English one letter for letter is conlanging. Someone slap them??

that is all so true. My own conlang has overcome all these, but i have abandoned even my own conlang after Dama http://users.sch.gr/ioakenanid/selfteach.pdf was born. Dama is not really a constructed language: it is the only language (after the ProtoHuman), that is self-made (自然) and sky-made (天然), that is NATURAL. the word Dama means "天然".
I invite you: https://www.facebook.com/dama.diwan/pos ... 6541215013
ॐ भूर् भु॑वः सुवः त॑त् सवितु॑र् व॑रेणियं भ॑र्गो देव॑स्य धीमहि धि॑यो यो॑ नः प्रचोद॑यात्

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Wario Toad 32 » 2016-08-17, 2:22

When people either have to small of a phonology or too large like 3 vowel sounds WTF. Or have a bunch of sounds that practically sound the same to my ears.

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Atluk » 2016-08-17, 4:22

Wario Toad 32 wrote:When people either have to small of a phonology or too large like 3 vowel sounds WTF. Or have a bunch of sounds that practically sound the same to my ears.


Plenty of RL languages have three vowel sounds.

Inuktitut, Yupik, Quechua (though they also have ɛ and ɔ through allophony), Aymara, Cheyenne (a, e, o), Dyirbal, etc.

I find having both [e] and [i] are unnecessary since they are so close together. Same with [o] and [u].

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Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby Wario Toad 32 » 2016-08-17, 4:37

I guess but they usually have diphthongs or tones mixed in

rubs

Re: Common mistakes of conlangers that piss you off

Postby rubs » 2016-08-17, 13:08

I don't think that's the only thing that's wrong with it it's also ignoring evidence to the contrary.
i’m not sure but i'd list being pretentious about a simplistic language is kind of a common mistake.
Simplistic languages won't allow the same scope of brevity and nuance of expression that a more sophisticated language would.
The Grammar of language is like different connectors, and the lexicon is like the bricks.
that doesn't mean that… you can't have a language with only just over 200 words,
and a minimal grammar, it just won't have the same usefulness or features as a more complex sophisticated language.

What makes a kitchen sink language isn't the combination or type of parts you use but how well they fit together or compliment each other.
well i still understand my first conlang well enough to do a linguistic paper on it :roll: .
ironic I must sayt since i hate it i hate it i hate it completely!
[yes That is hyperbole if you wanted to you could basically say anything you wanted to say in [vernacular]english in said conlang.]


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