Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

ycc_swe
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Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby ycc_swe » 2014-11-07, 8:23

Hello

The names of some (many) villages in Laos start in muang or luang. In Thailand I have seen Mae. In southern China it is meng. I have assumed meng is a change from muang into putonghua.

I had just guessed that muang could mean village in Thai. I have now studied Thai for a few weeks but muang is not the standard word for village.

What are the etymological origins of
muang
meng
mae
luang

Thanks

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Re: Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby linguoboy » 2014-11-07, 16:01

ycc_swe wrote:What are the etymological origins of
muang
meng
mae
luang

You do know that these languages have a host of homophones, not to mention several competing romanisation systems? Without examples I can't be certain what words you have in mind.

The first words is probably เมือง/ເມືອງ mư̄ang. It simply means "town" or "city" and, by extension, "country". As far as I know, it goes back to Proto-Tai, but a lot of terms relating to civilisation and politics in Thai were borrowed from Mon, Khmer, or Pali.

Here you can find links to the various Chinese characters romanised as "meng": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meng#Mandarin. If you can find the one you have in mind, then you can look up the etymology here: http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx.

The usual meaning of แม่/ແມ່ in Thai and Lao is "mother". As a prefix, it often has the meaning "chief", e.g. แม่น้ำโขง/ແມ່ນ້ຳຂອງ mǣnamkhong "mother water river", the Thai/Lao name for the Mekong River. But, as most of the towns whose names begin with แม่ are near the border with Burma, I might investigate a Burmese etymology if I were you.

The primitive meaning of หลวง/ຫຼວງ lūang is "great" (e.g. Lao ທາງຫຼວງ thānglūang "highway" [lit. "great road"]). From that it became extended to mean "royal" or "pertaining to the state", as in the name of the Lao capital, Luang Prabang or the provincial capital Luang Namtha.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby ycc_swe » 2014-11-08, 1:36

Thank you so much for a really good reply.

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Re: Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby OiJoua » 2023-09-23, 22:51

Etymologically muang/muong/meng comes from various Tai languages meaning "district/region, place, town". Sure Chinese has extensive homophones with different origins and meanings but here, talking about placenames and villages near Tai-speaking areas, there really is no question that it's 勐 here. (From that link that Linguaboy posted of the four pinyins, it will be listed under měng, then 勐.)
Muang (เมือง, ເມືອງ) and Meng (勐) = district, region, place, town
Muang Sing (ເມືອງສີງ) = lion district
Muang Xay (ເມືອງໄຊ) = Xay's district
Muang Mao (မိုင်းမော) = foggy place
Muang Pattaya (เมืองพัทยา) = district of the southwesterly wind
Meng La (勐腊) = tea district
Meng Jiao (勐角) = place to start a family
Meng Mao (勐卯) = foggy place
Muong Thanh (Mường Thanh) = land of God

No need to look to Burmese for etymology of "mae". It has cognates across the whole region meaning "mother" and by extension meaning "river".
mae nam (แม่น้ำ, ແມ່ນ້ຳ, 湄南) = river, sometimes shortened to "mae"
mae (แม่, ແມ່) = mother, (shortened form) river
Mae Nam Khong (ແມ່ນ້ຳຂອງ) = mother river
Mae Lao (แม่ลาว) = mother Lao (= Lao river)
Mae Suai (แม่สรวย) = mother beautiful (= beautiful river)
Me Nam He (湄南河) = river river (湄南 means river in Tai languages, 河 means river in Chinese)
Me Kongk (មេគង្គ) = mother Ganges (Khmer name for Mekong River)

Luang (หลวง, ຫຼວງ) = royal
Luang Prabang (ຫຼວງພະບາງ) = royal image of Buddha
Luang Namtha (ຫຼວງນ້ຳທາ) = royal green river
Khlong Luang (คลองหลวง) = royal canal
San Sai Luang (สันทรายหลวง) = royal sand dune

linguoboy wrote:as in the name of the Lao capital, Luang Prabang or the provincial capital Luang Namtha.

The capital of (lo) Laos is Vientiane.

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Re: Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby linguoboy » 2023-09-28, 20:56

OiJoua wrote:
linguoboy wrote:as in the name of the Lao capital, Luang Prabang or the provincial capital Luang Namtha.

The capital of (lo) Laos is Vientiane.

Sorry, that should say "the former Lao capital". (Vientiane became the capital of the modern state in 1975.)
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Re: Etymology of "muang" and "luang" in Thai/South East Asia?

Postby OiJoua » 2023-09-29, 0:07

linguoboy wrote:
OiJoua wrote:
linguoboy wrote:as in the name of the Lao capital, Luang Prabang or the provincial capital Luang Namtha.

The capital of (lo) Laos is Vientiane.

Sorry, that should say "the former Lao capital". (Vientiane became the capital of the modern state in 1975.)

No, Vientiane didn't become the capital in 1975. It already was. It's been the capital through most of the last 500 years. Maybe you are thinking of Luang Prabang as the seat of royalty, which ended with the Secret War and takeover by Pathet Lao. It was a ceremonial and spiritual center, sometimes called "royal capital" (note: distinguished from "administrative capital" in Vientiane where non-ceremonial government, such as parliament, prime minister, defense, foreign ministry, etc. took place). The king and queen were killed in 1975 so the royal status of Luang Prabang was lost. Vientiane continued on (if you can call the ideological changes "continuing on") with its previous roles under the new government.


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