Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

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korn
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-05, 14:57

abcdefg wrote:@korn: I was talking about the mannerism and attitude of common Vietnamese, not the achievements or level of intelligence. I believe Vietnamese are just as smart as any other nationality in the world, but we don't look like or behave like coming from a good, respectable environment. That is mostly caused from the specific history and geography of the country... as we seem to have a 'different' standard of courtesy.


In my opinion being educated is correlated positively with having manners.

Maybe common Vietnamese people have bad manners because they don't have much education? :/
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby abcdefg » 2012-10-06, 6:12

Our education system focuses on achievements that they can show off, like examination results. Students can be smart at study because we are kind of forced to be (I think you know about our higher study pressure), but are extremely lack of social skills. Having manners is one of those.
Tôi kể người nghe chuyện Phố-trong-sông,
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Bóng đổ dài, bước chân người mê mải
Gió chở mùa về,
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Pangu » 2012-10-06, 15:43

I believe every "nationality" or "ethnic group" have their own pros and cons when it comes to behavior. If you think people in more "developed nations" are better, think again, they just have different vices.

You think all Japanese are honorable? How about those who watch (or participate in) harassing young school girls on crowded subways or even rape? Ever heard of "hentai"? (It's bien thai in Vietnamese BTW). You think all Americans are great? Just look at all the overweight tourists who go aboard and expect everyone to speak English without learning a lick of foreign culture. Compare to viewership of Honey Boo Boo vs something that is actually worth watching on American TV (which is rare). I could go on and on.

Vietnamese are far from perfect. But I can also come up with examples where Vietnamese might be shocked at behaviors of other nationalities/ethnic groups. One of the first things I learned in Vietnamese is that it's considered rude to use direct pronouns such as I and you. Instead, you use a variety of titles to address each other based on age and gender. This is actually similar to traditional Chinese culture which is no longer in use. I can only imagine how rude it is from the Vietnamese POV to call your grandfather "You!" lol See, it's all relative... no pun intended.

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby JackFrost » 2012-10-06, 18:19

You don't need to be educated in order to have manners strictly. Oftentimes, we pick up manners from our family and community.

Pangu wrote:You think all Americans are great? Just look at all the overweight tourists who go aboard and expect everyone to speak English without learning a lick of foreign culture. Compare to viewership of Honey Boo Boo vs something that is actually worth watching on American TV (which is rare).

>stereotypes Every country gets their own share of disagreeable foreign tourists regardless of nationality. And what do you think there aren't any "crap" TV shows in other countries? It's all relative.

without learning a lick of foreign culture

Newflash: they don't have to. Do think the British kids are going to Majorca for some cultural enrichment? No, they're often there to party and be constantly wasted for days in the sunny Spain. No one really gives a shit about the island's history, language, cuisine, and culture. Sure, it annoys me sometimes, but I can accept that some people travel just to relax and be away from their normal life in their home region/country without giving much of a fuss about the local culture and language.
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-06, 18:27

abcdefg wrote:Our education system focuses on achievements that they can show off, like examination results. Students can be smart at study because we are kind of forced to be (I think you know about our higher study pressure), but are extremely lack of social skills. Having manners is one of those.

Honestly saying I can't imagine those two women I mentioned earlier would lack the kind of manners you say Vietnamese people lack. And I can't really believe educated people like Professors would do the nasty things Draven mentioned. :hmm:

Pangu wrote:I believe every "nationality" or "ethnic group" have their own pros and cons when it comes to behavior. If you think people in more "developed nations" are better, think again, they just have different vices.

I agree with you. In Germany it's kinda normal to disrespect your parents. When they are old they literally deported into an old people's home. Grown up children are selling for example their old TV-set to their own parents and trying to make a profit out of it. Although this is very rare people do that. But in Vietnam people wouldn't even consider doing that - treat your own parents like strangers and try to make profit out of them.

Futhermore young people don't show respect to elder people at all. When an old man or woman enters the metro and every seat is taken usually none of the passengers would offer them their seat voluntarily.

I think the lack of respect for authority or just elder people is due to the democratic political system here. So I don't think it would change for the better if Vietnam were democratic.
Last edited by korn on 2012-10-09, 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Pangu » 2012-10-06, 19:45

JackFrost wrote:
Pangu wrote:You think all Americans are great? Just look at all the overweight tourists who go aboard and expect everyone to speak English without learning a lick of foreign culture. Compare to viewership of Honey Boo Boo vs something that is actually worth watching on American TV (which is rare).

>stereotypes Every country gets their own share of disagreeable foreign tourists regardless of nationality. And what do you think there aren't any "crap" TV shows in other countries? It's all relative.

You misunderstood my point. EVERY nationality/ethnicity/culture has qualities and flaws. I used those as examples. I couldn't possibly have listed an example from EVERY single culture.

JackFrost wrote:
without learning a lick of foreign culture

Newflash: they don't have to. Do think the British kids are going to Majorca for some cultural enrichment? No, they're often there to party and be constantly wasted for days in the sunny Spain. No one really gives a shit about the island's history, language, cuisine, and culture. Sure, it annoys me sometimes, but I can accept that some people travel just to relax and be away from their normal life in their home region/country without giving much of a fuss about the local culture and language.

What I'm talking about is arrogance. There is nothing wrong with going to an exotic land and just relax without turning it into a learning experience. However, it's another thing to go to a city halfway across the world and expect everyone to speak your language and do everything your way and have everything to how YOU are used to.

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby JackFrost » 2012-10-06, 20:05

Ok, goody. Glad to hear it clearer from you, so I have nothing else to add or disagree. ;)
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-10-19, 10:15

Can't believe I forgot about this thread.

zerogravital wrote:So you think you are more brillant than "over 90% of Vietnam's young population"?
Am I more brilliant for not subscribing to blind, toxic patriotism? I don't know, maybe so. But guess what? Even if that's the case, it doesn't make me feel better about myself at all. In fact, it's fucking depressing to see people around me react to collective criticism like you just did.

zerogravital wrote:You think you could change the whole Vietnamese society, make it better, make Vietnamese people richer, or you will be a Vietnamese potential president who is the first introducing the multi-party government system model into Vietnam?

That's the work of more than one generation, and only once young people have woken up to democratic ideals, can that process have any hope of getting started. I'm joining my voice to help them wake up, to feel ashamed and angry. What have you done to challenge the status quo so far?

zerogravital wrote:What good things have you guys done for your country other than just trying to find the most disgusting words to badmouth your Vietnamese fellows (including your friends, parent, brothers, grandparent, and so on) most offensively.

If you're smart, you'd never have written what you just wrote. See abcdefg's response.

zerogravital wrote:So do you like it when someone, especially a Vietnamese, calls you "A Vietnamese rude creature" like she did?.

"former human" is never ruder than the "title" she have labeled Us all Vietnamese as - "rude creatures", why have you highlighted my words, while you should have highlighted her words instead of mine, are you out of your sense?

Did she call you "a rude Vietnamese creature"?

That's your problem right there. You don't seem to be able to differentiate between what's personal and what's not. She's stating her opinion on how people from Vietnam stack up against people from other countries in terms of mannerism. It's got nothing to do with you on an individual basis. So tell me, why the hell are you attacking her?

I don't have to go on about this. This is not the classroom for Debate 101.

zerogravital wrote:So are you threatening to throw me out of the Unilang. Oh, I am so scared, please, for God's Sake, don't do that to me

You seem to be getting me wrong. It's not a threat. It's not even a warning. Just a simple statement - "If you continue doing that, this is what I'll do."

I hope we are clear.

-----------------------------------------

korn wrote:I think the lack of respect for authority or just elder people is due to the democratic political system here. So I don't think it would change for the better if Vietnam were democratic.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" - Plato

:wink:

And you do know about the brats resulted from China's 4-2-1 family structure, yes? Please be thankful for democracy, because without it, the problems you see everyday could have been much worse.
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-20, 19:42

Tenebrarum wrote:Can't believe I forgot about this thread.
korn wrote:I think the lack of respect for authority or just elder people is due to the democratic political system here. So I don't think it would change for the better if Vietnam were democratic.

And you do know about the brats resulted from China's 4-2-1 family structure, yes?

I thought you're someone who is more differentiate. Spoiled brats aren't results of a authoritarian politics. There are spoiled brats every where - even in families who have more than one child.

But besides that, I've only met nice and generous Chinese so far. Four young Chinese people at the age of 21 to 26 to be specific.

Tenebrarum wrote: Please be thankful for democracy, because without it, the problems you see everyday could have been much worse.

I didn't say I'm not thankful for democracy. My point is, I don't know whether democracy is the right thing for Vietnam right now. If you define democracy as "tyranny of the majority" and you yourself said 90% of all Vietnamese people (which is the majority) have the bad habits you mentioned, then I doubt you would want to be ruled by them.
Tenebrarum wrote:Can't believe I forgot about this thread.

What are you actually doing, when you aren't here? I like you posts and I wish to read more of them. They've got this bitter sweetness of a satirist and show you're a very intelligent and knowledgeable young man. You should make a blog or something like that and elaborate on your views. I'd follow you. No, I'm serious.
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-10-20, 20:15

korn wrote:I didn't say I'm not thankful for democracy. My point is, I don't know whether democracy is the right thing for Vietnam right now. If you define democracy as "tyranny of the majority" and you yourself said 90% of all Vietnamese people (which is the majority) have the bad habits you mentioned, then I doubt you would want to be ruled by them.

Democracy is always the right thing. We are yet to see a system that works better and is more humanistic. The whole concept of "tyranny of the majority" has turned out to be scaremongering at best, because when democracy is allowed to take place, what it actually does is letting the bright, progressive minds to raise their voices and influence people (influence the next generation, to be more accurate).

korn wrote:I thought you're someone who is more differentiate. Spoiled brats aren't results of a authoritarian politics. There are spoiled brats every where - even in families who have more than one child.

And in every period of history. So what does democracy have to do with it?

korn wrote:What are you actually doing, when you aren't here? I like you posts and I wish to read more of them. They've got this bitter sweetness of a satirist and show you're a very intelligent and knowledgeable young man. You should make a blog or something like that and elaborate on your views. I'd follow you. No, I'm serious.

Well, like I said, I don't patron Unilang as much as I used to. I'm currently in a state of mind that makes me want to rest, and that doesn't seem to help either. And thanks for the flattery, but I'm probably just good at sounding smart. Don't take that as a reliable indicator of my actual intelligence (you'll be in for a nasty surprise if you do - I'm sure you don't ,lol). :wink:
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby JackFrost » 2012-10-20, 20:30

Spoiled brats aren't results of a authoritarian politics. There are spoiled brats every where - even in families who have more than one child.

Sure they're everywhere, but the Chinese one-child policy makes it more of a general case. So yes, it can be a result from authoritarian politics. Or at least aggravate the phenomenon.

"tyranny of the majority"

A good democracy has a system of checks and balances to dilute the power of the majority. For example: human rights enshrined in the constitution.

I doubt you would want to be ruled by them.

Better than being ruled by an illegitimate government for a unforeseeable time being. At least in a democracy, you'd have a choice to vote against those that you don't want to rule the country.

You should make a blog or something like that and elaborate on your views. I'd follow you. No, I'm serious.

Do you want the regime to go after his ass? lol Because making a blog to voice what's wrong with Vietnam and to put a friendly spotlight on democracy would just do that. Just remember that when you suggest this to those who are living under an authoritarian government. :wink:
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-20, 20:59

Tenebrarum wrote:
korn wrote:I thought you're someone who is more differentiate. Spoiled brats aren't results of a authoritarian politics. There are spoiled brats every where - even in families who have more than one child.

And in every period of history. So what does democracy have to do with it?

You drew the line between spoiled brats and political system in the first place....
Tenebrarum wrote:(you'll be in for a nasty surprise if you do - I'm sure you don't ,lol). :wink:

.... would you mind elaborate on that, please? :hmm:

JackFrost wrote:Do you want the regime to go after his ass? lol Because making a blog to voice what's wrong with Vietnam and to put a friendly spotlight on democracy would just do that. Just remember that when you suggest this to those who are living under an authoritarian government. :wink:

He could use a proxy server. And he's criticizing Vietnamese politics and society already now anyway. :D
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby JackFrost » 2012-10-20, 21:34

It's because this is a very little known website and he's doing it in English instead. A blog is a different story. :wink:
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Guillermo » 2012-10-20, 22:10

So, is this thread going to be about Vietnamese politics, or can we return to the subject of language learning now?
native: [flag]en[/flag]
médiocre: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]
生疏: [flag]zh[/flag] [flag]de[/flag]
基本的: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]hi[/flag]
começando: [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ko[/flag]

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-21, 17:37

JackFrost wrote:It's because this is a very little known website and he's doing it in English instead. A blog is a different story. :wink:

Well if he had a website or blog of it's own it will even be less known than this site here. And why should he not write his blog in English?
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-10-22, 0:48

korn wrote:Well if he had a website or blog of it's own it will even be less known than this site here. And why should he not write his blog in English?

Why would it be less known though? Unilang is about as obscure as it gets. And if I write in English, who would be my intended audience? Certainly not people in Vietnam, since most of the educated city people can't comprehend a Simple English Wikipedia article to save their life.

I've never had the intention to keep a blog anyway. My thought process is choppy and not suitable for writing at length. Nor have I ever dreamt to be a dissident blogosphere star and end up with 10 years of buttrape in prison. Earlier this year, four young guys my age just got from 2 to 4 years each for distribution of leaflets that call for clearer election process. And then you've got activist bloggers who were taken away by plain-clothed "policemen" in the dead of night, never to be seen again.

Even if I'm willing to accept such a fate, I'd still have to grow and get older before I know shit.
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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby korn » 2012-10-23, 15:02

Tenebrarum wrote:Why would it be less known though?

Well, if you think you can create more traffic than a website that exists like few years with a loyal community. Good luck. Also you have to take into consideration, politics is usually something that is labeled as being "boring" - so you wouldn't draw much interests in the very beginning. Further more you wouldn't be the very first one to do a blog about that kind of topic, I guess. So, you don't even have the advantage of being first mover here.

Taking into account what you said ("My thought process is choppy and not suitable for writing at length.", "I'd still have to grow and get older before I know shit."), it would be even less likely you'll exceed unilang's traffic.

But after everything I read, I think you wouldn't be suitable for blogging anyway. I think you're better at reacting and criticizing than initialising and creating. That's not a bad thing though.

But that's of course my opinion; I could be wrong. I'm just saying I like to read your puns, sarcastic comments and your style of putting your point across. .... maybe I wouldd be the only one who wouldd follow you. :D
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
---
S'il vous plaît, corrigez toutes mes fautes, même si elles vous paraissent insignifiantes. Et aidez-moi, s'il vous plaît, à améliorer ma façon de m'exprimer. Merci d'avance!
---
Nếu tôi viết chỗ nào chưa đúng, dù là lỗi nhỏ hay nghiêm trọng, thì các bạn hãy sửa lại giúp tôi hoặc góp ý để tôi có thể học hỏi và rút kinh nghiệm. Cám ơn các bạn nhé!

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby abcdefg » 2012-10-23, 17:44

Tenebrarum wrote:I've never had the intention to keep a blog anyway.

Please, do write, Draven :D. It doesn't need to be strictly politics, just social and cultural things would do. Or if u're out of topics then do film reviews :)). Please please please :D I am very interested in your interpretations of events and what you might take on. Vietnamese or English doesn't matter (obviously to me) but I'd prefer English. Sorry but I still have the impression that ur Vietnamese sounds weird. In fact we talked in English 99% of the time from the beginning because u used first names as pronouns and u talked in such a way that always made me translate ur writings back to English, after " :lol: " for a while. But it depends on u, of course! Just publish a blog and throw here a link... I'd be reading with enthusiasm :D.
Tôi kể người nghe chuyện Phố-trong-sông,
chuyện những mùa Đông đi qua thời con gái.
Bóng đổ dài, bước chân người mê mải
Gió chở mùa về,
hoang hoải cả giấc mơ..

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby Trungnghia » 2013-02-04, 15:57

Hi everybody, I'm from Vietnam. Nice to get acquainted with everyone. You may ask for my help about Vietnamese if necessary...

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Re: Learning Vietnamese by talking to local Vietnamese people

Postby abcdefg » 2013-02-04, 17:35

Hi Nghia, welcome to the forum! Hope you will have a nice time here! :D (which I'm sure you will :) )
Tôi kể người nghe chuyện Phố-trong-sông,
chuyện những mùa Đông đi qua thời con gái.
Bóng đổ dài, bước chân người mê mải
Gió chở mùa về,
hoang hoải cả giấc mơ..


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