Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

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Pangu
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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby Pangu » 2013-07-08, 19:35

mōdgethanc wrote:
You realize that majority of Americans think Asians = Chinese right? So them knowing what "Vietnamese" is, is already a level above majority of their counterpart.
You realize that the Vietnam War was kind of a big deal to Americans, right?

Perhaps to those who grew up in the 60's & 70's. People born after that wouldn't know or care much about Vietnam, if anything at all.

mōdgethanc wrote:It's not hard to guess that "Vietnamese" might be the language spoken by the inhabitants of Vietnam.

So Mexicans must be the language spoken by the inhabitants of Mexico, right? American must be the language spoken by the inhabitants of United States of America, right? Swiss must speak... Swiss? South Africans must speak... South African? Israelis must speak... I assume you're smart enough to get my point.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-07-08, 22:10

Pangu wrote:Perhaps to those who grew up in the 60's & 70's. People born after that wouldn't know or care much about Vietnam, if anything at all.
No, but they would have heard of it in history class. You live in Texas - I know there's a large Vietnamese population there. Maybe the average American isn't quite as ignorant as you think.
So Mexicans must be the language spoken by the inhabitants of Mexico, right? American must be the language spoken by the inhabitants of United States of America, right? Swiss must speak... Swiss? South Africans must speak... South African? Israelis must speak...
You've got it ass-backwards. Knowing that many languages end in -ese, including well-known ones like Japanese, Chinese and Portuguese, it's not hard to figure out that Vietnamese would be the language of Vietnam by analogy. What you're talking about would be knowing the name of the country is Vietnam and guessing the name of the language is Vietnamese, which is a common ending (cf. legalese). Obviously this doesn't work for every country, but there are enough to make it not an unreasonable guess.
I assume you're smart enough to get my point.
Remember what I said about your condescending attitude? This is why I don't like talking to you.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby Pangu » 2013-07-08, 22:28

mōdgethanc wrote:No, but they would have heard of it in history class. You live in Texas - I know there's a large Vietnamese population there. Maybe the average American isn't quite as ignorant as you think.

Americans are known for many things, geography and history aren't among them.

Yes, Texas does indeed have a large Vietnamese population. That's why some Americans are even aware of a people called "Vietnamese" and their "pho" (pronounced "fo" by most Americans). But this is the exception rather than the rule.

mōdgethanc wrote:You've got it ass-backwards. Knowing that many languages end in -ese, including well-known ones like Japanese, Chinese and Portuguese, it's not hard to figure out that Vietnamese would be the language of Vietnam by analogy. What you're talking about would be knowing the name of the country is Vietnam and guessing the name of the language is Vietnamese, which is a common ending (cf. legalese). Obviously this doesn't work for every country, but there are enough to make it not an unreasonable guess.

Point is, not every country have their own language named after them nor would their language necessarily be the same as their country.

mōdgethanc wrote:Remember what I said about your condescending attitude? This is why I don't like talking to you.

You're right, I value your opinion too much, oh wait, no I don't.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-07-08, 22:38

Pangu wrote:Yes, Texas does indeed have a large Vietnamese population. That's why some Americans are even aware of a people called "Vietnamese" and their "pho" (pronounced "fo" by most Americans). But this is the exception rather than the rule.
Care to back that up? Oh wait - that's right, you can't.
Point is, not every country have their own language named after them nor would their language necessarily be the same as their country.
Yeah, duh. When did I ever say they did?
You're right, I value your opinion too much, oh wait, no I don't.
Welcome to my ignore list!

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby Pangu » 2013-07-08, 22:44

mōdgethanc wrote:Care to back that up? Oh wait - that's right, you can't.

Back up my claim like you do with all of yours? lol

All you have to do is mingle with the mainstream American society to know I'm right.

Yeah, duh. When did I ever say they did?

So in that case for someone who don't know anything about Vietnam could very well assume Vietnamese speak Chinese, no different than Americans speaking English or "Taiwanese" speak Chinese.

Welcome to my ignore list!

Boo-freaking-hoo. What would I do without your attention? lol :roll:

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-10, 5:02

Pangu wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:Care to back that up? Oh wait - that's right, you can't.

Back up my claim like you do with all of yours? lol

All you have to do is mingle with the mainstream American society to know I'm right.

Seems difficult to prove either way. All I can add on the subject is that a Rick Steves-style travel show I saw on PBS or something today that covered Vietnam had the American woman pronouncing it /foʊ/ and being promptly corrected.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-07-10, 7:48

I'm not sure what other pronunciation would be better. No matter what vowel we use, it's not going to sound right to them, because very few Westerners would bother with getting the tone right. And seeing how mangled English names become in Vietnamese, they have no right to complain.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-10, 12:57

mōdgethanc wrote:because very few Westerners would bother with getting the tone right.

The woman on the show made an effort to when corrected, but you're right; most Westerners probably don't even understand the concept of tone but just think Asians have funny singsong accents.

And seeing how mangled English names become in Vietnamese, they have no right to complain.

I continually find it hilarious that even though Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet it has to tear the look of the original word to shreds (e.g. India --> Ấn Độ).

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby Pangu » 2013-07-10, 14:08

johnklepac wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:because very few Westerners would bother with getting the tone right.

The woman on the show made an effort to when corrected, but you're right; most Westerners probably don't even understand the concept of tone but just think Asians have funny singsong accents.

Expecting foreigners to pronounce Vietnamese words exactly is simply too unrealistic. The same is true for the reverse. However, there is a huge difference between pronouncing it "fo" and fuh", where the latter is at least much closer.

johnklepac wrote:
And seeing how mangled English names become in Vietnamese, they have no right to complain.

I continually find it hilarious that even though Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet it has to tear the look of the original word to shreds (e.g. India --> Ấn Độ).

The example you gave isn't valid. The Vietnamese name for India, Ấn Độ came from Chinese, 印度 Yìndù.

This is the case with other country names that are traditionally in the Sinosphere such as Japan (日本 Rìběn) Nhật Bản, Korea (韓國 Hánguó) Hàn Quốc, Mongol (蒙古 Ménggǔ) Mông Cổ, Ryukyu (琉球 Liúqiú) Lưu Cầu, Taiwan (台灣 Táiwān) Đài Loan… etc. It's also the case for many countries that made contact with China in the early 1800's such as United States (美 Měi) Mỹ, England (英 Yīng) Anh, France (法 Fǎ) Pháp… etc. These names have been in Vietnamese language and history for hundreds to thousands of years.

Only some of the "newer" countries to Vietnam have Vietnamese names that may seem closer to the original language.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby JackFrost » 2013-07-10, 18:34

johnklepac wrote:American woman pronouncing it /foʊ/ and being promptly corrected.

She was rather close though. Her mistake was rounding it and adding a glide (it's /fɤː/), but really, it's pointless to make her say it properly with that pain-in-ass tone (the low dipping-high rising one).

Pangu wrote:All you have to do is mingle with the mainstream American society to know I'm right.

I doubt a bit about your claims though. At least in my observation, no one was ever confused whenever I say either Vietnam or Vietnamese. I assume they immediately think, "Oh that country where we got our ass kicked back in the 1970s". It's not as extremely obscure to them as Palau may be.
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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-07-10, 22:27

johnklepac wrote:I continually find it hilarious that even though Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet it has to tear the look of the original word to shreds (e.g. India --> Ấn Độ).
That's because those are Vietnamese readings of Chinese words. In Chinese it's Yìndù.
JackFrost wrote:I doubt a bit about your claims though. At least in my observation, no one was ever confused whenever I say either Vietnam or Vietnamese. I assume they immediately think, "Oh that country where we got our ass kicked back in the 1970s". It's not as extremely obscure to them as Palau may be.
I'm pretty sure they teach that in history class, don't they?

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-11, 0:14

mōdgethanc wrote:That's because those are Vietnamese readings of Chinese words. In Chinese it's Yìndù.

Hmm, you're right. I tried to look at Wikipedia for more, but they seem to all be either written simply as we do or exist in the same form in Chinese. I take it back.

I'm pretty sure they teach that in history class, don't they?

Hah, Americans remembering stuff from school.

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby JackFrost » 2013-07-11, 0:52

mōdgethanc wrote:I'm pretty sure they teach that in history class, don't they?

Not to a great extent, I think. Some battles and accords were certainly mentioned in my history class and that's all.
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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-07-11, 1:18

JackFrost wrote:Not to a great extent, I think. Some battles and accords were certainly mentioned in my history class and that's all.
Yeah, but do you really think anyone in your peer group has never even heard of the country of Vietnam? (Not that it matters much since this is all anecdotal anyway.)

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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby JackFrost » 2013-07-11, 3:22

Already answered in the post to Pengu.

Never happened to me.
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Re: Why do you think Vietnamese is not popular as other Asian la

Postby OldBoring » 2013-11-15, 12:44

A friend of mine in Rome asked me: "Is Vietnam in Africa"?

Then he probably thought about American movies mentioning the Vietnam war, then asked me: "Is it in America?"

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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