Questions about Vietnamese pronouns

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korn
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Questions about Vietnamese pronouns

Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 11:40

Chúng tôi or Chúng mình

Are both versions possible? Are there any differences?

Best regards

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Postby Tenebrarum » 2008-04-25, 15:41

Depends on the context, the difference can be in nuance or function.

Function: When you want the meaning 'inclusive we' ("What do we have for dinner?") , just forget about chúng tôi. Use chúng mình only. You'll encounter its contracted form much more often - mình.

Nuance: If you mean 'exlusive we', you can use both but the "feel" is different.

- Chúng mình (or anything else having to do with that word mình) sounds way closer and warmer and sweeeet... quite feminine and cute in fact, so cute that you only hear a "tough guy" use it with his woman.
E.g: "Mình trễ rồi đó" - "We're late already" (one spouse to another, or one friend to another with the listener being female)

- Chúng tôi sounds unemotional and serious.
E.g: "Chúng tôi không biết nói tiếng Việt" - "We don't speak / have no knowledge of Vietnamese"

In Southern Umgangssprache, chúng is replaced with tụi, and tôi is usually rendered as tui. So chúng tôi becomes "tụi tui" and chúng mình is "tụi mình".
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Cam on!

Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 16:21

Cam on anh Draven rat nhieu! Anh da duoc nhan thu chua?

Thank you very much Draven! Have you received the e-mail, yet?

Danke sehr, Draven! Hast du die E-Mail schon erhalten?

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Postby Tenebrarum » 2008-04-25, 16:49

korn wrote:Cam on anh Draven rat nhieu! Anh da nhan duoc thu chua?

Rồi, nhận được rồi ^^

No need for that polite anh, for Rammstein's sake! Just use bạn or Draven or D.

There's an 8-year age gap between us so, technically speaking, it's me who should call you "anh". For your part, you can omit pronouns when talking to me.
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Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 17:08

Uh dung, Draven yt tuoi hon korn. Korn xe noi "ban" voi Draven. Duoc khong?

Right! You are younger than I am. So I'll adress you with "ban", ok?

Richtig! Du bist jünger als ich es bin. Ich werde dich also mit "ban" anreden. In Ordnung?

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Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 17:10

Is it that wrong to say "Anh da duoc nhan thu chua?"

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Postby Tenebrarum » 2008-04-25, 17:20

korn wrote:Uh dung, Draven it tuoi hon korn. Korn se xưng "ban" voi Draven. Duoc khong?


Thật ra có một anh gần ba mươi tuổi gọi mình bằng bạn thì hơi bị... kỳ. :lol: Nhưng thôi cũng được, tại anh đâu phải người VN.

Actually it's a lil'... weird having an almost-thirty guy calling me bạn. :lol: But it's okay, since you're not VNmese.

Your Vietnamese is quite good already. Just some spelling and word choice mistakes, but the grammar is good :o

The letter Y has to do with etymology - it's for words of Chinese origin. "Ít" is not Sinitic but native, hence i and not y.
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Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 17:31

Once again: Is it that wrong to say "Anh da duoc nhan thu chua?"

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Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 17:37

Thật ra có một anh gần ba mươi tuổi gọi mình bằng bạn thì hơi bị... kỳ. Nhưng thôi cũng được, tại anh đâu phải người VN.


Rat dung! Anh se xung voi em "thang Draven". Nhu the thi co dot hon khong?

Right! I will adress you as "Draven". Is this better?

Please correct my phrasing as well. BTW: What is phrasing in VN?

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Postby Tenebrarum » 2008-04-25, 17:54

korn wrote:Rat dung! Anh se xung voi em "thang Draven". Nhu the thi co tot hon khong?

Er... no. Not thằng. Unless we're really close or you're mad at me :lol: I think you calling yourself "korn" and calling me "Draven" does the job.

Pronoun usage is one of the reasons why Vietnamese is so unwieldy. But I can see you got the basic mechanism well. Good job :congrats:

korn wrote:Once again: Is it that wrong to say "Anh da duoc nhan thu chua?"

That would translate to "Are you allowed to receive the mail yet?"

nhận được = to receive successfully
được nhận = be allowed to receive / be awarded with (a prize or something)

korn wrote:BTW: What is phrasing in VN?

"cách đặt câu" - way/method to put sentences
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Postby korn » 2008-04-25, 19:10

ahh...tat nien roi! Draven giup do Korn nhieu lam! Cam on, nhe.

Yes, of course! You helped me a lot! Thank you!

:D

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How to greet many people in vietnamese?

Postby Katarinka » 2010-02-21, 15:59

Is there a way to say "Hello everyone" in viet?
I am a newbie in this language, already know the basic greeting (ch̀ao cô, ch̀ao anh, ch̀ao cḥi)

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Re: Questions about pronouns

Postby Tenebrarum » 2010-02-23, 0:33

There are quite a few ways. Context is needed - who are your audience?
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Re: Questions about pronouns

Postby mafke » 2010-07-27, 16:40

As far as I can tell, Vietnamese is far more interested in the relationship between the two people talking and not that interested in who's talking and who's listening at any given time.

That is while English (and other European languges and even Chinese) obsessively mark who's talking and who's listening in any given sentence in a conversation Vietnamese is kind of indifferent about that. You can do that but it's less important than indicating things like 'less senior person in the conversation' or 'professional person in a conversation' etc.

I think that's because, unlike other hyper-status-conscious Asian languages Vietnamese never evolved speech levels that do the same thing (like Japanese or Korean) or an especially elaborate sentence particle set (like Thai) or vocabulary sets marked to indicate the relative status of speaker and listener (like Javanese and to a lesser extent Thai).

Therefore the words chosen to refer to the speaker and listener increased in importance to fulfill that function a lot more systematically than in other Asian languages.

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Re: Questions about pronouns

Postby abcdefg » 2011-01-03, 4:45

How I hate Vietnamese pronominal system! ~~
D., how can 2 close people call each other, without being too close? ~~ Not mày tao or tôi ông/bà, that'd be close and rude, nor tớ ấy because they would sound like 2 strangers, nor xưng tên because that'd sound cheesy ~~

So what are other pairs of pronouns I can use? My friend resorted to chàng/nàng but IMO if we actually use it we'd sound like complete wackos ~~

I suggested anh/chú but he said I looked too girly for that pair to work ~~

May I have your suggestions please! ~~
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chuyện những mùa Đông đi qua thời con gái.
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Gió chở mùa về,
hoang hoải cả giấc mơ..

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Re: How to greet many people in vietnamese?

Postby illogical » 2011-03-04, 5:08

Katarinka wrote:Is there a way to say "Hello everyone" in viet?
I am a newbie in this language, already know the basic greeting (ch̀ao cô, ch̀ao anh, ch̀ao cḥi)

You can say: " Xin chao moi nguoi" or "Xin chao cac ban" ... and a lot more way to say, depends on the situation

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Postby korn » 2012-09-29, 17:09

Hi there,

When it's appropriate to use "tôi", "tớ" or "mình"? Or are these pronouns interchangeable? Thanks in advance. Best regards
Please correct all my mistakes, no matter how trivial they may seem to you, also, please help me to improve my phrases. Thank you in advance!
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Re: Questions about pronouns

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-09-29, 18:42

abcdefg wrote:How I hate Vietnamese pronominal system! ~~
D., how can 2 close people call each other, without being too close? ~~ Not mày tao or tôi ông/bà, that'd be close and rude, nor tớ ấy because they would sound like 2 strangers, nor xưng tên because that'd sound cheesy ~~
Eh? You mean two people of roughly the same age? "Close but not too close"... Hmm, in Saigon we would just use first names in that case. Ông-bà is more intimate. Mày-tao is very intimate, of course. Tớ-ấy is a northern thing; I've never heard it used non-ironically here.

abcdefg wrote:I suggested anh/chú but he said I looked too girly for that pair to work ~~
Erm... That's how northern men address each other when they want to sound "brotherly", right?

korn wrote:When it's appropriate to use "tôi", "tớ" or "mình"? Or are these pronouns interchangeable?
Definitely not interchangeable. On a rough basis:
- Tôi: The so-called "neutral" pronoun. This is how you refer to yourself in formal paperwork, or in a piece of writing without a specific audience.
- Tớ: A northern pronoun. Used by a young person when talking to another young person. Might sound friendly. I'm not sure about this - please check with abcdefg.
- Mình: Used when talking to a person of your age, or younger than you. Soft. (As soft as a guy can get.)
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Re:

Postby JackFrost » 2012-09-29, 19:16

Tenebrarum wrote:- Mình: Used when talking to a person of your age, or younger than you. Soft. (As soft as a guy can get.)

Just of our age? I thought it's only used between those who are extremely close to each (best friends and couples). o.O

korn wrote:Or are these pronouns interchangeable?

Not really. Just to give you a picture: imagine your girlfriend/wife's (if you have one) reaction if you address her as "Sie" instead of the expected "du". :wink:
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Re: Questions about pronouns

Postby maianhvk » 2012-09-30, 8:24

Tenebrarum wrote:- Tớ: A northern pronoun. Used by a young person when talking to another young person. Might sound friendly. I'm not sure about this - please check with abcdefg.
- Mình: Used when talking to a person of your age, or younger than you. Soft. (As soft as a guy can get.)


Mình nghĩ về cơ bản "tớ" là để tỏ ra thân thiện với những người ngang tuổi.
Từ "mình" cũng có thể dùng để gọi vợ/chồng :mrgreen: mặc dù là nghe rất sến :D và còn để gọi tắt cho "chúng mình", "bọn mình".
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