Vietnamese Pronunciation

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Tenebrarum
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tenebrarum » 2009-05-24, 7:35

JackFrost wrote:In the North, it's always palatal nasal in either position ([ɲ]).

Uhm no, final NH in the North is /ŋ/, despite what those websites tell you. Jeese... I don't know where they got the idea that it's /ɲ/. The /ɲ/ coda may or may not have been around at the time the alphabet was made, but in any case it's gone now. The same applies to that other hypothetical lost coda represented by final CH.

JackFrost wrote:"xa" and "số" would be [sa:] "sa" and [so] "so" in Hanoi and [ʃɑː] "sha" and [so] "so" in Saigon.

Got you there Jacky :lol: It's the other way round - [sɑː] and [ʃo].
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby JackFrost » 2009-05-24, 7:52

Well, excuseee me. Bitch :roll: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink: :D

I don't really care how the Northerns say the final NH. To me, it's /n/. Period. 0: D

Got you there Jacky

*goes to edit* >.<

I don't know what you're talking about. I checked and I had it right. Don't edit my posts, Mr. Moderator. :blush:
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Kasuya » 2009-05-24, 15:39

Draven wrote:Your Vietnamese now lean towards Southern dialects after you listened to my voiceclip. It's still super uncanny, particularly the tones. The whole thing is exactly what we call "Ông Tây bập bẹ tiếng Việt" - "Western man stammer[ing] Vietnamese". That is, when Westerners try to say Vietnamese words, it comes out child-like and painful. The very, very few that speak Vietnamese perfectly make our jaws drop. Everytime they speak.
I believe this matter is indeed as horrible as it sounds. Western people who speak Vietnamese fluently and naturally are the result of long and total immersion - they have been living in Vietnam for at least 7 or 8 years. So the only advice I can think of is to try listening to the language as much as possible, or otherwise drop it entirely, as Vietnamese is not that rewarding.


Do Koreans and Japanese have the same problems as Westerners pronouncing Vietnamese?

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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tenebrarum » 2009-05-24, 19:32

lichtrausch wrote:Do Koreans and Japanese have the same problems as Westerners pronouncing Vietnamese?

I haven't seen any Korean or Japanese speak Vietnamese so far. Apparently the ones who do, if any, haven't made appearance in the media.

Most of the industrial complexes in Saigon belong to the Japanese and the Koreans, but I doubt they bother to learn Vietnamese at all. All they need are direct subordinates who can communicate fluently in English.

My two cents: Koreans may have a fighting chance. The Japanese? Not so much.
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby kman1 » 2009-05-25, 0:57

JackFrost wrote:I can help you. I have a Word document explaining the pronunciation (the Southern variety only) with Draven confirming the accuracy. Why don't you tell me which dialect do you wish to aim for? The Northern variety? Or the Southern variety?

The southern variety it is then. :)
JackFrost wrote:I may not get what you're trying to achieve, but this is Unilang, so learning languages is also a hobby where we have fun. No need to ruin that.

now that is good to hear!
JackFrost wrote:Keywords: N = North and S = South. I'm using North American English vowels as examples alongside with the IPA since I know you don't like IPA. ;)

so thoughtful! thank you!
Draven wrote:So the only advice I can think of is to try listening to the language as much as possible, or otherwise drop it entirely, as Vietnamese is not that rewarding.

I'll take the first option please. :) I think Vietnamese is rewarding, why don't you think so??
Draven wrote:My two cents: Koreans may have a fighting chance. The Japanese? Not so much.

Good, I'll keep fighting then. :yep:

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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-05-25, 2:00

Draven wrote:
lichtrausch wrote:Do Koreans and Japanese have the same problems as Westerners pronouncing Vietnamese?

I haven't seen any Korean or Japanese speak Vietnamese so far. Apparently the ones who do, if any, haven't made appearance in the media.

Most of the industrial complexes in Saigon belong to the Japanese and the Koreans, but I doubt they bother to learn Vietnamese at all. All they need are direct subordinates who can communicate fluently in English.

My two cents: Koreans may have a fighting chance. The Japanese? Not so much.

In Chinatown, I met a cashier that was Japanese, but spoke Vietnamese, we chatted for a while, and she told me that she had the same troubles with pronunciation that English speakers had, although she did grasp the idea of tone pretty quickly, because Japanese has tone (and she was from Miyazaki, a place known for having differences in pitch accent).
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tomii515 » 2009-05-27, 21:15

Wow, I made this thread a long time ago.

Anywho, I was bored, so I decided to attemp speaking Vietnamese. Don't bash me too harshly :)

http://www.zshare.net/audio/60603605061174cf/

I read the same thing that kman1 originally did.

(Về Bạc Liêu nhớ ăn bún bò cay

Bài và hình: Phương Kiều/Người Việt

Ðến Bạc Liêu, vui với anh em tới 2 giờ sáng, bị mấy chai rượu “Công Tử Bạc Liêu” hạ gục. Sáng dật dờ mãi mới dậy, anh bạn chở đi ăn điểm tâm bằng một tô bún nóng hổi. Hết xỉn liền!)

The word "rượu" was the hardest to pronounce for me.

Btw, sorry if it sounds like awkward because of either pronounciation or random stops in the middle of sentences lol.

Tell me how I did :hmm:
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tenebrarum » 2009-05-28, 11:35

Tomii515 wrote:Tell me how I did :hmm:

No where near native level but intelligible. I can understand you just fine. A few things though:

- ‘Hình’ sounds... very strange, more like [hɛːn] instead of [hɪn].
- Being a native English speaker you still slide your /e/ into /ei/, evidently in words with unchecked /e/ like ‘về’ [vei] (instead of [ve]).
- Your Ơ sounds less like /ɤ/ and much more like /ɔ/. So your ‘nhớ’, ‘giờ’ and ‘chở’ sound like ‘nhó’, ‘giò’ and ‘chỏ’. That carries over to diphthongs featuring /ɤ/ as well e.g ‘mói’ [mɔi] and ‘choi’ [cɔi] instead of ‘mấy’ [mɤi] and ‘chơi’ [cɤːi].
- Your ÔI diphthong is not that close to /oi/, but more like /ɔi/.
- You did close your lips after -ung (in "búng" i.e. ‘bún’ with a Southern pronunciation). VERY GOOD. I'm not sure you did the same with -ông in ‘Công Tử’ though.
- The tones are good. Slightly off in some words like ‘sáng’ and ‘xỉn’, but nah, overall you're very good for someone with no tonal background.

Tomii515 wrote:The word "rượu" was the hardest to pronounce for me.

That triphthong was done Northern way in your reading - [iəʊ]. Yes, it's arguably the hardest; neither people from the North nor those from the South gets it right. If we stick to orthography it would be [ɯəʊ], but Northerners do it like above and for Southern folks it's [ɯʊ] or even a plain [u].
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby abcdefg » 2009-05-28, 16:18

Draven wrote:
Tomii515 wrote:Tell me how I did :hmm:

No where near native level

Can't believe you would say that! :D
Tommy, I was surprised to listen to your recording :D Yeah there are some mistakes here and there but overall it's very good ! Uhm, well, much better than I would expect from an American. Keep up the good work! :-P
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tenebrarum » 2009-05-28, 17:42

abcdefg wrote:
Draven wrote:No where near native level

Can't believe you would say that! :D

I've heard much better :wink: But like I said those white people have been living in Vietnam for ages so it's probably not fair to compare...
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tomii515 » 2009-05-28, 21:00

Draven:

Hahah,t hat was harsh! Hahah just kidding, it's nice to hear constructive critisism. And next time, ill try to be aware of those mistakes you pointed out. thanks!

abcdefg:

hahah thank you :)
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Imbecilica » 2009-05-31, 14:07

Good try, much better than most foreigners I know who learn Vietnamese. :D
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Levike » 2015-12-12, 17:02

Nguyễn Thanh Hiển

Could anyone give me an IPA for this name?

She's a Hungarian singer originally from Vietnam, everyone here pronounces her name the Hungarian way, which is /'hiɛn/. I'm curious how far we are from the right one.

I've tried with Google Translate, but it still has that robotic sound for Vietnamese.

Also, I know Hien is her given name, but what are the rest?
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby JackFrost » 2015-12-13, 3:53

Levike wrote:Nguyễn Thanh Hiển

Could anyone give me an IPA for this name?

She's a Hungarian singer originally from Vietnam, everyone here pronounces her name the Hungarian way, which is /'hiɛn/. I'm curious how far we are from the right one.

I've tried with Google Translate, but it still has that robotic sound for Vietnamese.

Also, I know Hien is her given name, but what are the rest?

Thanh Hiển are indeed her given names. Nguyễn is her family's name, as you might know.

/ŋʊ̯iə̯n tʰɑ:n hɪə̯n/

At least it's how you say it in the Southern dialect. Minus the tone markings.
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Tenebrarum » 2015-12-14, 13:48

In the Southern dialect that would be /ŋwɪə̯ŋ tʰɑn hɪə̯ŋ/

But she's probably from a Northern family, as most Vietnamese people in the former communist block countries are, so I think the Northern pronunciation would be more appropriate: /ŋwiə̯n tʰɑɪ̯ŋ hiə̯n/.

Nguyễn: Family name
Hiển: The name to call her by - the "first" name
Thanh: The middle component, called chữ lót or "lining word." This might function like the Western concept of middle name, but also might not. It's complicated.
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Re: Vietnamese Pronunciation

Postby Levike » 2015-12-14, 18:04

JackFrost wrote:/ŋʊ̯iə̯n tʰɑ:n hɪə̯n/

Tenebrarum wrote:/ŋwiə̯n tʰɑɪ̯ŋ hiə̯n/.

Thank you. :wink:

So we were close enough, except the last vowel.
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