Persian Study Group

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vijayjohn
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-21, 1:27

!متشکرم

My cousin came over last night with his Iranian American wife and her sister. I told his wife about how I was trying to improve my Persian and she started talking to me in it. You'd think I'd prepare myself for a possibility like that but no, I only understood about half of what she said. :roll: :lol:

Anyway, this time, I'm posting an Iranian pop song and a ghazal in Dari, but I haven't found the words for the ghazal anywhere online yet, so I'm actually just guessing what they are! The Iranian song is "Gol Bi Goldoon" by Shohreh Solati and her brother, Shahram:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUoNgBOCJ24
Lyrics:
► Show Spoiler

My attempt at a translation:
► Show Spoiler

The Afghan song is "Shab Merasad" by Salma Jahani:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS6xQajVOCw
My attempt to figure out the lyrics:
► Show Spoiler

And my attempt at a translation:
► Show Spoiler

This is a list of new vocabulary, beginning first with words I learned from previous posts in this thread (mainly the post just before this one!), continuing with the new words from these songs, followed by some words I didn't know from the first-grade textbook I have in Persian, and ending with eight more words from GLOSS (four each from a Dari sample and an Iranian Persian sample) and LangMedia (three each from the same two videos I used last time). :)

سوختن - to burn
هست - there is
هجرت - separation
سنگ - stone
غصه ghosse - sorrow
باور - acceptance, belief
زینتی - decorative, ornamental
خواندن - to study, sing (as well as to read)
نیاز - demand, need
آجری - brick?
استخاره کردن - to consult a book or bid beads?
شهره - noble, famous, celebrated
شن - sand
ناظم - superintendent
هنگام - while
مواظب - careful
درباره - about
شخم زدن - to plow
پاشیدن - to scatter
لثه - gum (of teeth)
پاکیزه - clean, proper
دهان - mouth, jaws
باعث - cause
عدد - number (also used as a classifier, e.g. یک عدد تخم مرغ 'one egg')
جوشیده - boiled
زردی - yolk
فصلی - seasonal
مواد - products, materials
شخصی - personal
لوازم - thing, item(?), accessory
چرخ کردن - to grind?
وضعیت - situation, case, condition
رقم - kind (چی رقم - what kind)
حرکت - movement
ظروف = plural of ظرف (I don't count this as a new word :P)
نقره - silver
دوربین - camera
گز - nougat-like sweet from Isfahan my Persian cousin once gave us :)
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2019-07-26, 5:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-27, 23:01

I'll address these one at a time. Let's start with the first song.
vijayjohn wrote:Don't leave me :?:; I'm dying! If you aren't here, I'll die
NB: the subjunctive نباشی implies a conditional; think of it as:
[اگر] نباشی [پس] می‌میرم

A flower can't be without a vase!
What a mistake I made!
I believed your words.
What a mistake he/she made! makes
He/she believed believes your words.
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-01-28, 0:49

Second song:
vijayjohn wrote:My attempt to figure out the lyrics:

یاد تو مرا دوباره میخوانم
I think it could be می‌خواند at the end - it would make more grammatical sense, though it messes with the rhyme

در آجری :?: استخاره میخوانم
My guess: در واژه‌ای استخاره می‌خوانم

شهره به دلم :?: دوباره میخوانم
شوری به دلم دوباره می‌خوانم

And my attempt at a translation:
Night arrives, and I study the stars.
I sing your memory again. :?:
If we go with می‌خواند then it becomes "your memory calls to me again"

My eyes demand to see you again.
I bid beads on a brick. :?:
I look for a [good] sign in a word

You come and stay, my love.
Noble fervor/tumult/passion in my heart, I sing again.

Oh, I travel on distant sand!
Night arrives, and I study the stars.


آجری - brick? yes, آجر is brick. But I think the word here was واژه "word"
استخاره کردن - to consult a book or bid beads? yes, to look for signs or seek augury, typically by means of opening the Qur'an to a random page, counting beads, or other traditional methods
شهره - noble, famous, celebrated yes but the word you wanted here was شور "fervor, tumult, zeal, passion"
لوازم - things, items, accessories (it's the broken plural of لازم and is generally treated as plural in Persian too)
چرخ کردن - to grind? yes
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-03, 3:17

Merci! :)
eskandar wrote:NB: the subjunctive نباشی implies a conditional

Aha, like in Hindi and Urdu! (Kal Ho Na Ho... :lol:)

All right, time for the next two songs! Maybe I'll stop putting things in spoiler tags, if it's more convenient. I'll try doing that this time, but let me know if you prefer otherwise!

The first one is "Ayeneh," by Shohreh again (the next several Iranian songs I intend to go through are by either Shohreh or Shahram or both! :P):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-O5zpSss9s
Lyrics:

من توبه کردم از عشق
که رفته برنگردم
بی تو به جون رسیدم
از توبه توبه کردم
دلی که شد اسیرت
از تو جدا نمی شه
کسی که شد گرفتار
دیگه رها نمی شه

حال پریشون منو
از سر زلفام بپرس
نگاهتو آئینه کن
از دو تا چشمام بپرس

تو راه و رسم عشقو
دل بردن و می دونی
کاشکی یادت می دادن
یه ذره مهربونی
چشمهای عاشق من
آئینه قلب منه
نذار که آئینه عشق
تو دست تو بشکنه

My attempt at a translation:

I repented love,
Which (love) having gone, I'm not coming back to. :?:
I came to life without you.
I repented repentance.
A heart that became your captive
Doesn't become separate from you again.
No one who is caught
Becomes free again.

Ask (my) head devoid of hair
About how worried I am!
Make your eyes a mirror;
Ask my two eyes!

You know the ways and rules of love
And how to steal hearts.
If only they were teaching you
A bit of kindness!
My amorous eyes
Are the mirror of my heart.
Don't let the mirror of love
Break in your hands!

And of course, I'm including an Afghan song as well. This time, it's "Qataghani" by Zabi Estalifi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TaE5RJd_-E
Lyrics (mostly from a comment below the video but added ی's to صحرا and آهو. I think موسمک might be wrong since it sounds different from what he actually sings. :hmm: The comment also seems to be saying that وصل in the second-to-last line below means یاد):

پای زیبکای پایش
چوری های دستایش
شرنگ شرنگ میکنه
به مثل گل لاله
به مثل خون عاشق
لبایشه رنگ میکنه
وقتی که یار میرقصه
،سبزه نگار میرقصه
وقتی که یارمیخنده
گل های باغ میخنده

هوا هوای یار است
موسمک دیدار است
در آرزوی وصلش
دلکم بیقرار است

ای گل نو رسیده
قدم گذار به دیده
مه صحرای تو باشم
تو آهوی رمیده

قدت چو خمچهٔ گل
عطر تنت چو سنبل
به وصل چشمکایت
بخوانم مثل بلبل

The pretty supports of her legs (and) :?:
The bangles on her hands
Make jingling sounds.
Her lips are painted :?:
Like the flower of a tulip,
Like the blood of a lover.
When the beloved one dances,
A darling green dances. :?:
When the beloved one laughs,
The flowers of the garden laugh.

The tune is the tune of the beloved.
It's the time to meet up.
My heart is impatient
In the desire to join her.

Oh, newly arrived flower,
Walk towards (my?) eyes!
If I'm your field,
You're a frightened deer. :?:

You're as small as a flower jug.
The fragrance of your body's like a hyacinth.
Let me sing like a nightingale
Of the memory of your eyes!

Also, from a passage about sayings by Prophet Ali/Hazrat-e-Ali in the first-grade textbook I have: What does امروزتان mean? I saw it in the sentence کوشش کنید امروزتان از دیروز بهتر باشد.

Vocabulary words from each of these two songs, followed by ten words each from the same two LangMedia videos and two GLOSS recordings as last time (plus two Iranian-specific(?) colloquialisms in the LangMedia video for Farsi/Iranian Persian. In reality, چاودار is not from any of these, but rather a word I learned by noticing that نان جو 'barley bread' was oddly translated into English as 'rye bread' in GLOSS. Similarly, I was inspired to learn پس‌فردا after relearning پریروز from GLOSS).

توبه کردن - to recant, repent
برگشتن - to come back
اسیر - captive
گرفتار - caught
پرسیدن - to ask
نگاه، دیده - eye
رسم - rule
بردن - to steal
ذره - (a) bit
گذاشتن - to let, allow
پا - support
شرنگ - jingling (in Dari, apparently from Pashto شرنګ shrang), poison (in Iranian Persian)?
سبزه - green?
نگار - darling?
هوا - tune?
وصل - union, joining
بیقرار - impatient
قدم گذاشتن - to tread, walk
صحرا - desert, field
آهو - deer
رمیده - scared
قد - size
خمچه - jug
سنبل - hyacinth
آبیاری - irrigation
سمپاشی - pesticide spraying
فرستادن - to send
کاسه - bowl
سر سفره - on the tablecloth
لذت بردن - to enjoy
راستگو - honest
فرمودن - to command, (formal) say
فراوانی - abundance
پاینده - lasting, enduring
تازه - just, recently
در بین مردم خود - within people (بین beyn is basically the same as in Arabic)
معلومدار - obvious
به طور اکادمیکش - academically
دنبال کردن - to follow
فعلا - already, currently
محتوا - content
به طور کامل - completely (کامل - complete)
حذف - removal
اثر - effect
در واقع - in fact
سرو کردن - to serve (well, that was easy! :lol: French loanwords at least are great at throwing me off in Persian)
خب - okay, well (never seen this spelling until now)
آهن - iron, metal?
قلم کاری - penwork?
ریز - tiny
ظرافت - delicacy, elegance
توشو - (means تو آن)
نقش و نگار - design, pattern
اُوُردن - (means آوردن)
مشبک - netted, latticed
سوراخ - hole
مانند - like, such as
خوشه - bunch
سبوس دار - whole grain (نان گندم سبوس دار - wholewheat bread)
چاودار - rye
چاشتانه - lunch? (Synonymous with ناهار?)
نان چاشت - apparently the same as چاشتانه
بسیار کم نمک - lightly salted?
کچالو - taro
بانجان رومی - tomato (only in Dari?)
گشنیز - coriander/cilantro
تکه/تکّه (in Tehrani تیکه) - piece
مهمانی - party
قصابی محل - butcher shop
بقالی - grocery
بغل - side, next to
لبنیات - dairy products
مغازه خشکشویی - dry cleaner's
پریروز - day before yesterday
پس‌فردا - day after tomorrow
ابریشمی - silken

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-02-05, 20:58

vijayjohn wrote:
eskandar wrote:NB: the subjunctive نباشی implies a conditional

Aha, like in Hindi and Urdu! (Kal Ho Na Ho... :lol:)

Exactly!

Maybe I'll stop putting things in spoiler tags, if it's more convenient.

Yeah, it seems to be just me and you here anyway, so maybe easier this way. Nice job with the Iranian song, just a couple of corrections:

Ask (my) head devoid of hair
About how worried I am!

The image is not a head devoid of hair, but of tousled, disheveled hair. زلفِ پریشان is a common trope in classical Persian poetry, playing on the double meaning of پریشان , both "disturbed, distressed" (emotionally) and "scattered, dispersed".

If only they were teaching you
A bit of kindness!

This is basically correct but "if only they had taught you" would be better. In colloquial Persian the imperfect is used to form the optative.

Now the Afghan song:

I think موسمک might be wrong since it sounds different from what he actually sings.

It does sound different, though it works/makes sense in the context. I can't figure out what he's actually saying.

The pretty supports of her legs (and) :?:

Maybe "the pretty feet of her legs"?

Her lips are painted :?:
Like the flower of a tulip,
Like the blood of a lover.

I think this is right. :y:

A darling green dances. :?:

In Persian a dark-skinned person is not "brown" as in English but "green" - so, "a brunet(te) beauty/darling dances".

Walk towards (my?) eyes!

Could be, but more likely playing with the expression قدم روی چشم "[place your] step on my eyes" which is a way of saying you're very welcome here (like, you're so welcome in my home I'd let you walk over my face).

You're a frightened deer. :?:

Yes, or gazelle, a common symbol of beauty.

Also, from a passage about sayings by Prophet Ali/Hazrat-e-Ali in the first-grade textbook I have: What does امروزتان mean? I saw it in the sentence کوشش کنید امروزتان از دیروز بهتر باشد.

The sentence translates as "strive so that your today is better than yesterday". It's not a wording you would see often.

Vocabulary

شرنگ - jingling (in Dari, apparently from Pashto شرنګ shrang), poison (in Iranian Persian)?

Cool, I wouldn't have understood the Afghan usage otherwise. It means "poison" in the classical literary language shared by both countries; nowadays سمّ would be more common in Iranian Persian.

هوا - tune?

Lots of meanings for this word. I started listing them and then decided to just link you to Hayyim.

سمپاشی - pesticide spraying

Literally "sprinkling poison"--the same word for poison I mentioned above.

در بین مردم خود - within people (بین beyn is basically the same as in Arabic)

Or "among people"

به طور اکادمیکش - academically

به طور اکادمیک

خب - okay, well (never seen this spelling until now)

The spelling distinguishes khob "okay, well" from خوب khub "good".

آهن - iron, metal?

Just iron, metal is فلز.
قلم کاری - penwork?

It's a kind of textile.

توشو - (means تو آن)

توش

چاشتانه - lunch? (Synonymous with ناهار?)

I'm pretty sure it means lunch, but only in Afghanistan.

نان چاشت - apparently the same as چاشتانه

Same as above.

بسیار کم نمک - lightly salted?

Very (بسیار) lightly salted or low-salt.

کچالو - taro

Only in Afghanistan (I think it's an Urdu loan). In Iran it's called تارو.

بانجان رومی - tomato (only in Dari?)

Yes. In Iranian Persian it's گوجه فرنگی.
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby gotbetter » 2019-02-08, 6:03

vijayjohn wrote:Wait, never mind, I think I was confusing it all these years with به روی. :shock: Oops!


Hi, I see that was an old post and I don't know whether anybody else has replied to it yet (didn't have time to read through all those pages). I'm thinking that maybe the word you kept hearing that you thought sounded like بروی (which as far as I know doesn't exist) could actually have been بر روی (a preposition meaning "upon"). Just a thought. Hope this helps

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-14, 6:18

Yeah, I think it's به روی or بر روی or something like that. I specifically remember hearing it in the Iranian song I plan to try to translate next time, so I guess we'll find out! Thanks! :D

Meanwhile, I think I'm starting to run out of Afghan and Tajik songs I know! :o Maybe now I can learn some new ones.
eskandar wrote:Nice job with the Iranian song

Thanks! :)
Maybe "the pretty feet of her legs"?

Oh, okay. :lol:
Also, from a passage about sayings by Prophet Ali/Hazrat-e-Ali in the first-grade textbook I have: What does امروزتان mean? I saw it in the sentence کوشش کنید امروزتان از دیروز بهتر باشد.

The sentence translates as "strive so that your today is better than yesterday". It's not a wording you would see often.

Oh okay, that makes sense. :D

I have a few questions:

1.
به طور اکادمیکش - academically

به طور اکادمیک
توشو - (means تو آن)

توش

Hmm, so I got both of these from LangMedia, and the part that puzzled me in each case is precisely the part you crossed out! Maybe they were disfluencies or something? :hmm: Because the speaker in each video definitely pronounced these words that way, and these are also the spellings used in the transcript. I guess I'll just ignore them for now, though. I have too many other questions! :lol:

2. What does آمد بتم mean (from به رقص آ)? Is it an archaic way of saying به تو آمدم?

3. Can مغز mean 'nut'? The Dari GLOSS text I've been using lists مغز ها as part of a daily menu, translates this as 'nuts', and lists pistachios and almonds under it.

So there are some songs in Persian that I know and that already have translations, so I figured I might as well use them (like I did earlier with "Bibi Sanam Janem" and "Hawar Hawar") in addition to getting about ten new words each from the first-grade textbook, LangMedia in Dari and Persian, and GLOSS in Dari and Persian. This time, I'll use two songs you posted at some point, namely "Beh Raghs A" by Mohsen Chavoshi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtWfrsPmMSM
Lyrics and (not terribly great...) translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/beraghsa ... dance.html

And "Tanha Shodam Tanha" by Ahmad Zahir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPincz9p7Jk
Transliterated lyrics and translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/tanha-sh ... alone.html (lyrics in Persian script - and Roman script again - available here)

And now for the next Iranian song I'm trying to translate! It's by Shahram and called "To Ke Nisti." I tried translating it, but it's left me pretty puzzled...so this time, I guess I get to struggle with an Iranian song and a non-Iranian song, instead of just the non-Iranian one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd39RIJBRpg
Lyrics:

تو که نیستی تا ببینی این چنین تنها منو
بی تو ای تنها امیدم رفتم از یاد خدا
نقش دیوار جنونم اشک سرد آسمونم
تو که نیستی تا ببینی گمشده نام و نشونم

وقتی تو نیستی زندگی فریاد درده
دور از تو و آغوش تو زندون سرده
وقتی تو نیستی باده و مستی نداره
جز اشک حسرت ساغر هستی نداره

هوای زندگی برام بی تو چه دلگیر و سیاست
در دل نیمه های شب،خدای عاشقا کجاست
به من بگو که شونمو واسه که سایبون کنم
رو مرمر سینه ی کی پیشونیمو پنهون کنم

My attempt at a translation:

Until you see me as lonely as I am when you aren't there,
Without you, oh, I am gone from God's memory, (and) my hope (is) alone. :?:
Until you see the drawing of the wall of my craziness,
My cold, azure tears, all trace of me is lost. :?:

When you aren't there, life is a cry of pain.
It's a cold jail far away from you and your bosom.
When you aren't there, there is no wine or drunkenness.
There is no wine in the universe but the tears of yearning.

How black and gloomy the desire to live is for me without you!
Where is the god of lovers in the middle of the halves of the night? :?:
Tell me to make my dignity into an umbrella! :?:
Go away, marble of whoever's breast I hide my forehead in! :?:

And a song called "Kam Kamaki," apparently released in Afghanistan but sung by a Tajik singer whose stage name(?) is Basanti. Each line is followed by the words کمک کمک کم کمکی, usually repeated twice, which of course is what the song is named after, but I'm not sure they actually mean anything in particular in the context of the song (by itself, I guess it would mean something like 'a very little bit'), so I've left it out of both the lyrics and the translation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0YEnGz0CI
Lyrics:

به گوش و جان نشسته است
صدای آشنای تو
به سینه سینه می تپد
دلم فقط برای تو

دلم که عاشقانه شد
اسیر و مبطلای تو
بیا که میکشم نفس
به فکر تو وفای تو

چه می شود که گر شوی
رسد صدای پای تو
قرین خانه دلم
شود پر از هوای تو

My attempt at a translation:

Your familiar voice
Is sitting in (my) ear and soul.
A breast is beating against a breast. :?:
My heart is only for you.

My heart, which is in love,
Is captive and afflicted by you.
Come, for I am killing myself
Thinking about you, being faithful to you. :?:

What would happen if you were
To arrive with the sound of your feet,
If the companion of the home of my heart
Were full of your love? :?:

Vocabulary:
تر - green?
پروردن - to nourish (imperative =ب)پرور))
جوش - boiling, effervescence, agitation
در رفتن - to run away, escape
تاجدار - sovereign
قبا - cloak
پیاده - on foot
ماده - female
زان = contraction of از آن in poetry(?)
نر - male
آسوده - comfortable, relieved
غوغا - tumult
از بس که - so much that?
خون دل - toil
غنچه - bud
مرغ - bird (as well as chicken)
گلزار - rose garden
محرم - confidant
راز - secret (duh! بن گیا رقیب آخر تھا جو راز داں اپنا)
نغمه پرداز - singer
تا - until
نقش - drawing?
جنون - craziness
آسمان - azure
فریاد - cry, shout
آغوش - bosom
زندان - jail
جز - means the same as بجز
ساغر - cup, wine, glass?
هوا (new meaning #2 for me!) - desire
هوا (new meaning #3) - love
دلگیر - gloomy, blue, bleak
دل - middle
شان - dignity?
سایبان - umbrella?
پنهان کردن - to hide
آشنا - familiar
تپیدن - to beat
وفا - faith
قرین - companion
تابیده - shining?
پیوسته - always
جاری - flowing
کوی - alley
روییدن - to grow
شکوفه - blossom, bud
بیشتر - more
چشمه - spring, fountain (as well as 'eye')
مراسم - ceremony, ritual
به جا آوردن - to place
موسیقیدان - musician
به قتل رساندن - to kill
آدم - one (in addition to 'man')
تعداد - number, amount
فوت کردن - to die
انتظار داشتن - to anticipate, expect
بیشتر از این - anymore (the context was انتظار داشتم مه که چیزی به نام موسیقی افغانی شاید وجود نداشته باشه بیشتر از ای)
جالب - interesting
همت کردن - to endeavor
آموزش دیده - educated
جلوی - forward
تعارف کردن - to offer
بقیه - other, the rest (!باقي)
سوغات - souvenir
دیگر - hence
سری - series
باز گرفتن - to withdraw
تمام - all
کاملا - perfectly, completely
ضربه - blow
کاسه - cup
نوع - kind, type, variety (pl. انواع)
مخصوصا - especially
مغز - nut?
پسته - pistachio (I think I was a little tempted to think it was *پستا because Hindi/Urdu :P)
به مقدار زیاد - plentifully
کلچه - cookie (in Dari only)
مضر - harmful, unhealthy
قوطی - can
صحت - good health
یک سر - can this mean 'once'? (in addition to 'one head' etc.)
دستفروش - hawker
پارچه - fabric
رسیدن - to have time (as well as 'to arrive')
احتیاج داشتن - to need
جفت - pair
جوراب - sock
روسری - headscarf, hijab
سرکار - at work

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-02-19, 19:24

1.
به طور اکادمیکش - academically

به طور اکادمیک
توشو - (means تو آن)

توش

Hmm, so I got both of these from LangMedia, and the part that puzzled me in each case is precisely the part you crossed out! Maybe they were disfluencies or something? :hmm: Because the speaker in each video definitely pronounced these words that way, and these are also the spellings used in the transcript.
The reason I crossed out those things is that they were extra morphemes unrelated to the part you'd glossed. So for example به طور اکادمیک means "academically" (literally 'in an academic way') whereas به طور اکادمیکش means something like "in his/her/its academic way" - the ش is the third person possessive suffix. In the other example توش means "inside it" whereas توشو means either "inside it and" (o = and) or "inside it [acc]" (o = marks direct object). In either case the final و is not part of "inside it". Does that make sense? I'm not sure I explained it well.

2. What does آمد بتم mean (from به رقص آ)? Is it an archaic way of saying به تو آمدم?
Is it from the mesra' در دست جام باده آمد تم پیاده ? If so it's just inverted syntax for بتم آمد "my idol came" (fun fact: Persian بت bot is ultimately derived from Sanskrit buddha, though with a fair number of intermediary languages).

3. Can مغز mean 'nut'? The Dari GLOSS text I've been using lists مغز ها as part of a daily menu, translates this as 'nuts', and lists pistachios and almonds under it.
Yes, for sure. You can think of it as a kernel or something softer inside a hard shell, so other things that go in this category are shelled nuts, bone marrow, and the brain (with the skull as its shell). See here for some more examples.

Will get to the rest of your post soon. Just doing this in chunks.
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-02-19, 22:56

vijayjohn wrote:My attempt at a translation:

Until you see me as lonely as I am when you aren't there,
You aren't there, to see how lonely I am
Without you, oh, I am gone from God's memory, (and) my hope (is) alone. :?:
Without you, O my only hope, I've been forgotten by God
Until you see You aren't there to see the drawing of the wall of my craziness,
My cold, azure tears, all trace of me is lost. :?:
The cold tears of my sky, all trace of me is lost

When you aren't there, life is a cry of pain.
It's a cold jail far away from you and your bosom.
When you aren't there, there is no wine or drunkenness.
There is no wine in the universe but the tears of yearning.

How black and gloomy the desire to live is for me without you!
[I think your translation is good, هوا could also be air/wind here, all three words work in the context]
Where is the god of lovers in the middle of the halves of the night? :?:
Where is the god of lovers in the dead of the middle of the night? [NB: here "middle of the night" has been rendered more emphatic, or more colorful, by combining two expressions دلِ شب "the dead [lit. heart] of night" and نیمه شب "the middle of the night"
Tell me to make my dignity into an umbrella! :?:
Tell me, for whom should I make my shoulder a shade? [more idiomatically, who should I let cry on my shoulder?]
Go away, marble of whoever's breast I hide my forehead in! :?:
On whose marble breast should I hide my forehead? [NB: listen to the song, you can tell that رو is being pronounced ru "on" rather than ro "go". Also the bare command (without ب) in almost all cases would be literary/classical and therefore out of place in this otherwise colloquial song]
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-24, 20:09

Sorry, is that everything, or is there more coming? :)

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-03-08, 4:26

Sorry, I only go on Unilang for short periods of time these days, so if you have a long post like the previous one, it's hard for me to get to all of it.

vijayjohn wrote:And a song called "Kam Kamaki"
My attempt at a translation:

Your familiar voice
Is sitting in (my) ear and soul.
A breast is beating against a breast. :?: I'm not sure but I think it's just repeated, as in "My heart only beats for you in [my] breast, [my] breast"
My heart is only for you.

My heart, which is in love,
Is captive and afflicted by you. [NB: Wherever you got the lyrics from has misspelled مبتلا.]
Come, for I am killing myself breathing [she sings mikesham nafas "I take breath" not mikosham nafs
Thinking about you, being faithful to you. :?:

What would happen if you were
To arrive with the sound of your feet,
If the companion of the home of my heart
Were full of your love? :?:

Vocabulary:
تر - green? wet, fresh
زان = contraction of از آن in poetry(?) yes
از بس که - so much that? more or less. It's usually used in constructions like az bas ke X, Y... (eg. X happened so much that it led to Y, or I did X so much that Y happened, etc.)
خون دل - toil more like suffering or grief
نقش - drawing? yes, also sketch, painting, map
ساغر - cup, wine, glass? yes, in particular goblet (wine cup)
شان - dignity? yes
سایبان - umbrella? yes, anything that casts shade: umbrella, tent, canopy...
تابیده - shining? yes, depending on context
آدم - one (in addition to 'man') well, yes if you mean in the sense of "one should strive to act kindly" or "one never knows" etc.
کلچه - cookie (in Dari only) it's a type of cookie in Iran too, though often spelled کلوچه. I don't know if you're familiar with kulcha but it's a savory equivalent, with the same etymology.
یک سر - can this mean 'once'? (in addition to 'one head' etc.) yes
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-03-10, 5:15

Yeah, I was wondering whether I should make my posts shorter. I'll try to do that from now on. :)
eskandar wrote:Does that make sense? I'm not sure I explained it well.

Yep, and you did! It's just that LangMedia's translations into English throw me off sometimes.
2. What does آمد بتم mean (from به رقص آ)? Is it an archaic way of saying به تو آمدم?
Is it from the mesra' در دست جام باده آمد تم پیاده ?

Yep, thanks for the explanation!
it's a type of cookie in Iran too, though often spelled کلوچه. I don't know if you're familiar with kulcha but it's a savory equivalent, with the same etymology.

Yes, I am familiar with the savory equivalent at least in theory. Thanks! :)

All right, here's my next Iranian song by Shahram and Shohreh! It's called "Panjereha":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM-3I9RB_OI
Lyrics:
پنجره ها رو وا کن
عشقو بیار تو خونه
تا که قناری عشق
به خونه عاشقونه
غما رو رها کن
به فردا نگاه کن
عشقو صدا کن

پنجره ها رو وا کن
تا که بتابه خورشید
تا بزنه جوونه
گلای سرخ امید

سپیده سر زده از پس کوه بلند
تو مثل شقایق به روی دنیا بخند
عمر دو روزه ی ما ارزش غم نداره
باخته کسی که هر روز غم روی غم می ذاره
به شادی چلچله اومد رو سقف ایوون
خوش خبر قاصدک اومد دوباره مهمون

ای که تو چشمات رنگ بهاره
بودن با تو عمر دوباره
معنی هستی توی نگاته
زندگی بی عشق فایده نداره
وقتی یه دونه گندم میشه هزار تا دونه
وقتی رو شاخه ی عشق پر شده از جوونه
وقتی خدای عالم عاشق عاشقونه
وقتی پرستو با عشق می سازه آشیونه

My attempt at a translation:

Open the windows,
Bring love into the home
So the canary of love
Is in the home of lovers!
Release your tears!
Look towards tomorrow!
Express your love!

Open the windows
So the sun shines,
So the sprouts of the red
Flowers of hope blossom! :?:

Dawn appeared from behind a tall mountain.
You like a poppy, laugh over the world! :?:
Our life of two fasts is not worth tears. :?:
Anyone who puts tears upon tears is lost. :?:
The swallow came in happiness onto :?: the roof of the terrace.
The dandelion bringing good news came as a guest again. :?:

Oh, the colors of spring are in your eyes!
Lifetimes were with you again. :?:
The meaning of the universe is in your eyes.
Life is useless without love.
When a stalk of wheat becomes a thousand stalks,
When the bough of love became full of sprouts,
When the god of the world is the lover of lovers,
When the swallow builds a nest with love...

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-03-10, 21:21

vijayjohn wrote:My attempt at a translation:

So the sprouts of the red
Flowers of hope blossom! :?:
So the red flowers of hope sprout/put forth new shoots

Dawn appeared from behind a tall mountain.
You like a poppy, laugh over the world! in the face of the world
Our life of two fasts is not worth tears. our life which is two days [refers to the idea, frequently referenced in Persian songs, that life is only two days: the day you come into the world, and the day you leave it]
Anyone who puts tears upon tears is lost. Who ever heaps sadness upon sadness every day has lost [the game of life]
The swallow came in happiness onto the roof of the terrace. The swallow happily came onto the roof of the terrace. [Listening to the song will help you parse the lyrics: she sings be shaadi, chelchele umad not be shaadi-e chelchele]
The dandelion bringing good news came as a guest again. :yep:

Oh, the colors of spring are in your eyes!
Lifetimes were with you again. Being with you is another life [ie., like getting to live again]
The meaning of the universe is in your eyes glance.
Life is useless without love.
When a stalk grain of wheat becomes a thousand stalks grains


Nice job with the song!
Note: you translated غم as "tears" a couple of times, which works if you're going for a literary translation, but just wanted to be clear that the actual word doesn't mean "tears" but "sadness, grief".
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-03-12, 1:13

Thanks! :)

This time I'm struggling with an Afghan song (again :P but hey, the struggle makes it more interesting!), namely "Shishta Bashem" by Farhad Darya:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsHKHO0h_J0
Lyrics (I hope I got the spelling right because AfghanLyrics.com seems to be chock full of errors :?):

ای تازه نهال سبز دولانـه‌ی من
ای جنگلی سر زده از خانـه‌ی من
بگذار به زیر سایه ات پیر شود
امید جوان و عشق جانانـه‌ی من

شیشته باشم که درایی به درم
مثل گل خیمه زنی گردی سرم
صنما

تا شانه به شانه میزنی کاکلته
تا نم نم آب میکنی سنبلته
دریای حلاوتی ز من میگذاره
کوتاه نکند خدا بهار گلته

سازی نزدی که مست میگردیدیم
بانگ ز تو بر نشد که مینازیدیم
ای یار سر و پردـه‌ی رویا های من
طبله ای ننواختی که میرقصیدیم

My attempt at a translation:

O my fresh green sapling of Dowlanah, :?:
O wild one who appeared from my home,
Let your low shadow age,
My young hope and mad love! :?:

Let me live while you turn doors on my door
And pitch a tent on me like a flower, :?:
Darling!

As you hit your top knots from shoulder to shoulder,
As you make your hyacinth trickle with water, :?:
The sea of sweetness passes me by.
May God not make the spring of your flowers short!

You didn't play a saz while we were getting drunk. :?:
You didn't shout out while we were swaggering.
O beloved, head and web of my dreams, :?:
You didn't play a tabla while we were dancing.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby Antea » 2019-03-30, 23:28

Do you know of some site online (electronic translator or App), where I can translate the words to Persian and listen to their pronunciation? They’re not pronounced on Google Translate :roll:

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby Limagne » 2019-03-31, 9:02

vijayjohn wrote:Thanks! :)

This time I'm struggling with an Afghan song (again :P but hey, the struggle makes it more interesting!), namely "Shishta Bashem" by Farhad Darya:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsHKHO0h_J0
Lyrics (I hope I got the spelling right because AfghanLyrics.com seems to be chock full of errors :?):

ای تازه نهال سبز دولانـه‌ی من
ای جنگلی سر زده از خانـه‌ی من
بگذار به زیر سایه ات پیر شود
امید جوان و عشق جانانـه‌ی من

شیشته باشم که درایی به درم
مثل گل خیمه زنی گردی سرم
صنما

تا شانه به شانه میزنی کاکلته
تا نم نم آب میکنی سنبلته
دریای حلاوتی ز من میگذاره
کوتاه نکند خدا بهار گلته

سازی نزدی که مست میگردیدیم
بانگ ز تو بر نشد که مینازیدیم
ای یار سر و پردـه‌ی رویا های من
طبله ای ننواختی که میرقصیدیم

My attempt at a translation:

O my fresh green sapling of Dowlanah, :?:
O wild one who appeared from my home,
Let your low shadow age,
My young hope and mad love! :?:

Let me live while you turn doors on my door
And pitch a tent on me like a flower, :?:
Darling!

As you hit your top knots from shoulder to shoulder,
As you make your hyacinth trickle with water, :?:
The sea of sweetness passes me by.
May God not make the spring of your flowers short!

You didn't play a saz while we were getting drunk. :?:
You didn't shout out while we were swaggering.
O beloved, head and web of my dreams, :?:
You didn't play a tabla while we were dancing.


Apparently, دولانه refers to Mespilus germanica, ie the common medlar. The word used in Iran is اُزگیل but I have already heard Caspian Iranians refer to it as کونوس.

As far as I can remember, شیشته is the Kabuli word for نشسته.

I think سنبل is a metaphor for curly hair :para:

سراپرده means palace.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-02, 7:09

Thanks as always for your help, Limagne! Sorry, I didn't realize this song was that hard. :oops: I guess I'll move on to my vocab list instead.
Antea wrote:Do you know of some site online (electronic translator or App), where I can translate the words to Persian and listen to their pronunciation? They’re not pronounced on Google Translate :roll:

I don't, sorry!

Here are two more songs I'm learning more words from since translations are already available for them online. The Iranian one is a lyric video of "Man o To" by Googoosh (from the album Do Panjereh, of which an Iranian American lady who used to work with my mom gave me a CD):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTdzNjikhWE
Lyrics (again) and translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/%D9%85%D ... and-i.html

And the other one (and Limagne, you get full credit for introducing me to this song :D) is actually a ghazal called "Ushoq-i-Samarqand" from Uzbekistan, but I was surprised to learn that the poet who wrote it was none other than Aurangzeb's oldest child, Zeb-un-Nissa! This rendition is sung by Gulsara G`oyibova:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4FVQBcVLI&feature=player_embedded
The lyrics can be found here in the Roman and Cyrillic scripts, and a translation of the original ghazal into English can be found here.

And finally, here's my vocab list, consisting of words I learned from (in this order) all four of these songs (in the order listed), the first-grade textbook I have, LangMedia in Dari and then in Iranian Persian, and GLOSS in the same two languages:

جوانه - sprout
جوانه زدن - to sprout
سپیده - dawn
سر زدن - to appear?
عمر - lifetime
روزه - fast(ing) (also 'day'?)
ارزش - worth
چلچله - swallow (same as پرستو?)
سقف - roof, ceiling
ایوان - terrace
خوش خبر - bringing good news
قاصدک - dandelion
نهال - sapling
جنگلی - wild (one?)
پیر شدن - to age
جانانه - sound? Mad?
کاکل - top knot?
حلاوت - sweetness
گردیدن - to turn
بانگ - call, cry
نازیدن - to swagger
نواختن - to hit, beat
اُزگیل (in Iran), کونوس (also in Iran but by the Caspian Sea), دولانه (in Afghanistan) - common medlar(?)
شیشته - (means نشسته)
سراپرده - palace
غرور - arrogance, pride, vanity
سوت - hiss, whistle
پوسیدن - to rot, decay, wither
طاقچه - shelf
کج - crooked, curved, curly
کرشمه - coquetry
تیغ - sword, razor (as well as thorn)
مژه - eyelashes
خنجر - dagger
الماس - diamond
شهادت - martyrdom
طلب - quest, search
فریب - deceit
میکده - (means میخانه)
منیع - inaccessible
جستن (jostan) - to search, seek
مدعا or مدعی - claim, purpose
ذکاة - sacrifice
حسن - beauty
گدا - beggar
شتر - camel
همبستگی - solidarity
زندانی کردن - to imprison
به دست آوردن - to achieve
تلاش - struggle
انجام دادن - to do, achieve, perform
بستن - to suppress
خشمگین - angry
مجبور - forced
فرار کردن - to flee
نوید - good news
اکثریت - majority
طرفدار - fan
تفریح - entertainment
حد اقل - at least
فیصد - percent
سبک - style
ایجاد کردن - to create
متفاوت - different
منظور - aim, idea
دقیقا - exactly
چکش - hammer
تک تک - one by one
در آوردن - to bring out, produce
مشابه - like
مسلما - of course
گران - expensive
قیمت - price
خاطر - memory
هزینه - expense
خامه - heap (of sand)
سرک خامه - dirt road
مختلف - various
پهلو - side
کتابفروشی - bookstore
تیر شدن - to pass (in Dari)
روبرو - opposite, in front (of someone/something)
شفاخانه - hospital
مقابل - opposite
کلان - large
حوصله - patience
حوصله ام سررفت - I'm fed up, lost patience (but also 'am bored'?)
گوشی - receiver (on a phone)
ورداشتن - to take
نگران - worried
سراغ - trace (of someone)
خوک - pig
آنفلوانزا - (in)flu(enza)
شایع شدن - to spread
مسری - contagious
علامت - sign, symptom

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-02, 15:18

vijayjohn wrote:Let your low shadow age,
My young hope and mad love! :?:
Let my young hope and mad love grow old under your shadow

Let me live while you turn doors on my door
And pitch a tent around me like a flower (مثل گل خیمه زنی گردِ سرم)

As you hit your top knots from shoulder to shoulder,
As you make your hyacinth trickle with water, :?: as you sprinkle water on your hyacinth
The sea of sweetness passes me by.
May God not make the spring of your flowers short!

You didn't play a saz while we were getting drunk. :?: yes - though "saaz" can be an instrument in general


Will try to look over your new post soon.
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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-02, 23:58

Thanks! :)

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-04, 18:39

Antea wrote:Do you know of some site online (electronic translator or App), where I can translate the words to Persian and listen to their pronunciation? They’re not pronounced on Google Translate :roll:

You can try forvo.com which has recordings of words in many languages, including Persian. Otherwise a dictionary like Hayyim which at least includes transliteration of words can be useful.
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