Persian Study Group

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2019-08-10, 1:16

You have time, Vijay. :)

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-08-15, 1:21

vijayjohn wrote:Vocabulary (tbh, this time, the one term I'm particularly confused about is قر دار):
عشوه - (means roughly the same thing as ناز?) yes
قر دار - pleated? (Context: دامنهای قر دار) Can you link me to the larger context this came from? I'm imagining that قر here is another kind of ناز و عشوه which is sometimes spelled غر if that helps, but without more context I'm unsure.
شرق میانه - Middle East (at least in Dari...) right, Iranian Persian uses خاور میانه , where خاور is a "native" synonym for شرق
در طی - on, in? "during, in the course of", usually followed by a period of time, eg. در طی یک سال "over the course of a year"
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-08-17, 21:10

eskandar wrote:قر دار - pleated? (Context: دامنهای قر دار) Can you link me to the larger context this came from? I'm imagining that قر here is another kind of ناز و عشوه which is sometimes spelled غر if that helps, but without more context I'm unsure.

It's from a LangMedia dialogue in (Iranian) Persian called "Weddings in Khuzestan." It's at the end of Azita's third-to-last line:
لباس های محلی می پوشیدن و دامن های قر دار و رنگی و این ها بدش

...they...wore folk dresses. There used to be pleated skirts and colorful ones...

The next Iranian song I'm trying to translate is variously known as "Mahtab" or "Labe Boomeh" and is by Davood Behboodi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2cPq6Dc9tQ
Lyrics:

غروب شد دیگه آفتاب لب بومه
دلم تنگه و می بی تو حرومه
هزار حرف نگفته رو لبامه
هزار غصه ی پنهون تو گلومه

طفلکی دلم گیره
پای دل به زنجیره
نمیشه برم دیگه دیره

مهتاب تو چشمات
می ناب رو لبهات
منو میکشی آخر با
این امروز و فردات
دل عاشقو نشکن
تو گفتی که از اول
که عاشقتری از من

از اون روزی که عشقت
تو قلبم خونه کرده
دو تا چشم سیاهت
منو دیوونه کرده
تو باشی اگه یارم
تو این عمر دو روزه
دیگه غصه ندارم

My translation (I suspect perhaps I don't have to keep saying "attempt" now especially considering that I finally managed to translate a whole song correctly :D):

It's already sunset; the sun is setting.
I'm lonely, and wine is forbidden without you.
A thousand unspoken words are on my lips.
A thousand secret sadnesses are in my throat.

My poor heart is in love with you.
The foot of (my) heart is in chains.
I can't go; it's already too late.

The moonlight in your eyes,
Pure wine on your lips,
You're finally killing me with
This "today or tomorrow" of yours.
Don't break (my) lovelorn heart!
You said you were more in love
Than me from the beginning.

Since that day that your love
Made a home in my heart,
Your two black eyes have
Been driving me crazy.
If you are my beloved,
I have no more sorrow
In this life of two days.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-08-18, 17:12

vijayjohn wrote:It's from a LangMedia dialogue in (Iranian) Persian called "Weddings in Khuzestan." It's at the end of Azita's third-to-last line:
لباس های محلی می پوشیدن و دامن های قر دار و رنگی و این ها بدش

...they...wore folk dresses. There used to be pleated skirts and colorful ones...

I think this may be a local word used in Khuzestani dialects. It's hard to find in dictionaries. Eventually I located it here with the meaning "pleated", mentioned as belonging to the Dezfuli dialect. (Dezful is a city in Khuzestan). However, it also seems to appear in the Ziarati dialect of Mazandarani (appears here with the same meaning), spoken on the opposite side of the country, and in a few pages in more or less standard Persian online, so maybe it is a Persian word after all.

Just one correction on your translation:
It's already sunset; the sun is setting. the sun is at the edge (لب) of the roof (بام = بوم)
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-03-22, 13:00

After more than half a year, I've decided to come back to this thread because I think I have time to do that now and I've been finding myself randomly singing Persian songs to myself. :lol: So this time, I'm trying to translate the Afghan patriotic song "Sarzamen-i-Man" by Dawood Sarkhoush, which someone posted probably more than a decade ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJ2ViX0N6w&eurl=
Lyrics (without repetition):

.بی آشیانه گشتم
.خانه به خانه گشتم
بی تو همیشه با غم
.شانه به شانه گشتم

،عشق یگانه من
.از تو نشانه من
بی تو نمک ندارد
.شعر و ترانه من

،سرزمین من
.خسته خسته از جفایی
.بی سرود و بی صدایی
.دردمند بی دوایی

کی غم تو را سروده؟
کی ره تو را گشوده؟
کی به تو وفا نموده؟

ماه و ستاره من
.راه دوباره من
در همه جا نمیشه
.بی تو گذاره من

گنج تو را ربودند
از بهر عشرت خود
قلب تو را شکسته
.هر که به نوبت خود

مثل چشم این ستاره
مثل دشت پر غباره
مثل قلب داغداره

Translation:

I wandered without a nest.
I wandered (from) house to house.
Without you, I always wandered
Shoulder to shoulder with sadness.

My only love,
The indication of me (comes) from you. :?:
Without you, my poem
And song have no flavor.

My country,
You are so tired from oppression.
You are without a song and without a voice.
You are a patient without medicine.

Who has sung of your sadness?
Who has opened your path?
Who has trusted you?

My moon and stars
(Are) my path again.
I can't keep going
Everywhere without you.

Everyone who has broken
Your heart in their turn
Has, for their share of
Pleasure, stolen your treasure(s).

It's like the eye of this star. :?:
It's like a dusty plain.
It's like a bereaved heart.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-03-22, 18:01

vijayjohn wrote:The indication of me (comes) from you. :?:

I didn't completely get this line either. It could be something along the lines you suggested ("the [only] indication/sign of me is from you") but I think here نشانه is used in the sense of goal, aim, target, so something along the lines of "my [only] goal is you".

Who has trusted been faithful to you?


Everyone who has broken
Your heart in their turn
Has,for their share of
Pleasure, they have stolen your treasure(s).

Here که means کی .
از بهرِ means "for, because of" eg. از بهر چه؟ (why?) or از بهر خدا "for God's sake."

It's like the eye of this star. :?:

I think this line was actually مثل چشم انتظاره .
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-03-28, 5:29

This time, I'm posting a song by Shahram Nazeri that you already posted once in the songs thread! It's his rendition of Rumi's ghazal "Ro Sar Beneh Beh Balin":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4u6wxVHZ70
Lyrics: https://ganjoor.net/moulavi/shams/ghazalsh/sh2039/
Translation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0OXUdC_3W0

I actually don't have a translation for the Afghan song this time, but I'm not going to translate it myself, either, so I decided to just post it here instead so I wouldn't have to make you struggle to decipher unfamiliar expressions in Dari or Tajik. :) This is "Maida Maida" by Hamdard Bashir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmKyGFL7EMw
Lyrics: https://www.afghansonglyrics.com/Artist ... a-Yar-Zeba

The entire DLIFLC's website has been down for a while lately, I suspect for reasons having to do with the current epidemic, which also means that GLOSS is down. I think I'll compensate for now by getting more words out of LangMedia.

On the plus side, I did find this Iranian Persian to Dari dictionary on Google Books, which is helping me identify differences between them!

غروب - sunset
طفلکی - poor (as in pitiful or 'poor guy!')
دلم گیر است - my heart is in love
ناب - pure
یگانه - lone, sole, only
نشانه - goal; sign
سرود - song, anthem, hymn (sort of knew this from some titles of national anthems)
سرودن - to sing
دردمند - (medical) patient
گشودن - to open
وفا نمودن = وفا کردن - to be faithful
ربودن - to steal
از بهرِ - for, because of
عشرت - pleasure
نوبت - turn, rotation
غبار - dusty
داغدار - bereaved
نهادن - to put, place
بالین - pillow
ترک - abandonment
شبگرد - watchman, night-prowler, night-walker, thief, sleepwalker
ما - (can be royal "we")
سودا - passion (as well as 'trade')?
بخشودن (present stem بخشا) - to forgive, pardon, have mercy
عزم کردن - to resolve, determine
اژدها - dragon
زُمُرُّد - emerald
دفع - repulsion
خوب رو - handsome
واجب - imperative, essential
زردرو, زردرخ - pale, timid
میده - (in addition to 'dough', maida can also mean 'slowly' in Dari and Tajik)
گد شدن (Dari), قاطی شدن (Iranian Persian) - to blend in
چرخ زدن - to turn, spin
شانه زدن - to comb
کو - Dari for کن (imperative)
بارگاه - court
رخسار - cheek, face, countenance
خجسته - auspicious (the translation of Tutinama we've both seen says "prosperous")
میان - between
الفت - friendship, familiarity
مودت - camaraderie, cordiality, friendship
عشی - evening
خفتن - to sleep
پالکی - palanquin
ایستادن - to stand (as well as 'to stop' plus a few other similar meanings like 'to stay'; استادن is synonymous)
مستعار - fictitious
نام مستعار - penname
امکان - possibility
موسیقیایی - musical
هُوِیّت - identity
دوره - age, era
مطرح - relevant? famous? (and alive? In addition to propounded, on the carpet, under consideration. The context in this case is this sentence from LangMedia in Dari about modern Afghan female singers, written in the transcript as follows: ".در دوره فعلی کی هستن آواز خوان های زن که مطرح هستن. از کسایی که نو بر امدن" and translated into English as 'Who are the current famous singers, from the ones who have just started?')
بر آمدن - to come up
اعتراف - confession
تنوّع - variety
لحاظ - point of view
تخنیکی - technical (in Dari, and I suppose Tajik, from Russian)
روانی - psychological
انگشت شمار - few, countable on the fingers ("I can count on one hand how many...")
ادامه دادن - to continue
(پیش خود (تمرین کردن - (to practice) by oneself
پر آوازه - famous
(در این نزدیکی (ها - in this neighborhood, very recently, soon
نواختن - to play a musical instrument (in addition to hit/beat a drum or something and to caress or fondle)
حالی - at the moment/time
فنی - technical (in Iranian Persian)
منطقه - area, region
صنعتی - industrial (as well as artistic)
محسوب شدن - to be considered?
بالاخره - at last
جمعیت - population
قطب - axis, pole (also center, as in a region's economic center?)
ناحیه - area, region, sector
جهات - directions, points (plus a few other meanings)
ذوب - melting
شرکت ذوب آهن - steel mill (because that's what happens there, i.e. melting iron)
کوره - furnace, kiln, oven
صنایع - plural of صنعت
ورق - page, playing card, leaf; sheet, including e.g. sheets of metal, not just paper
نورد - beam (among other meanings)
میلگرد - iron rods (apparently, specifically rebar)
محصول (pl. محصولات) - product
تولید کردن - to produce
دانه - unit (measure word, in addition to grain, seed, plus some other meanings)
پراکندن - to scatter

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-03-28, 16:05

vijayjohn wrote:On the plus side, I did find this Iranian Persian to Dari dictionary on Google Books, which is helping me identify differences between them!

Cool!

غبار - dusty dust ("dusty" would be غبار آلود)
سودا - passion (as well as 'trade')? Yes, they're homonyms and homophones. سودا meaning trade, originally Persian, and سوداء from Arabic meaning "blackness" (and by extension, passion, melancholy, etc.) Word-final hamza usually gets dropped in Persian, leaving us with سودا for both.
مطرح - relevant? famous? (and alive? In addition to propounded, on the carpet, under consideration. The context in this case is this sentence from LangMedia in Dari about modern Afghan female singers, written in the transcript as follows: ".در دوره فعلی کی هستن آواز خوان های زن که مطرح هستن. از کسایی که نو بر امدن" and translated into English as 'Who are the current famous singers, from the ones who have just started?') I confess I hadn't encountered it in this sense before - maybe a specifically Afghan usage? At least in Iranian Persian, it usually means "proposed" "intended" "sketched out/designed" etc.
محسوب شدن - to be considered? yes, usually as part of "to be considered as..." or "to be counted as..."
شرکت ذوب آهن - steel mill (because that's what happens there, i.e. melting iron) the شرکت part means "company"
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Persian Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-03-30, 15:47

Yep, I figure they decided that an "iron-melting company" is a steel mill. :)

The last song on the tape I got from our family friends is "Dokhtare Irooni" by Siavash Shams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvPfrdYulmE
Lyrics:

،دختر ایرونی، هم صدای من
،خون شرقی تو رگهای من
،عاشقت شدم، یار جون جونی
.دختر ایرونی، دختر ایرونی
،دختر ایرونی، بی رنگ و ریا
،یه فرشته از نسل آریا

هیچ کی زیر این گنبد کبود
!با من مثل تو مهربون نبود
دختر ایرونی، با وفای من
.چشمای سیات آشنای من
دختر ایرونی، بلای من
،یار خوش ادای من
،من دلم می خواد صدات کنم
.خوب من، خدای من

دختر ایرونی، وصله تنم
.گل لاله خاک میهنم
.هر جا که تو ای خونه منه
.خورشید واسمون خیمه میزنه

.می دونستم که تو همیشه مهربونی
.می دونستم می خوای تو قلب من بمونی

.دوست دارم تو رو تو غصه هات
.همش از صداقته
.دوست دارم تو رو تو هر نگات
.یه غزل نجابته

Translation:

Iranian girl in harmony with me,
Eastern blood in my veins,
I fell in love with you, dearest beloved,
Iranian girl, Iranian girl.
Iranian girl, white and unpretentious,
An angel of honorable descent,

No one under this blue dome
Has been as kind to me as you!
I am acquainted with your black eyes,
Iranian girl faithful to me.
Iranian girl, my calamity,
My well-behaved beloved one,
My heart wants me to beat for you,
My good one, my God.

Iranian girl, my flesh and blood,
Flower of a tulip of the soil of my homeland,
Anywhere you are is my home.
The sun sets up a tent for us.

I knew that you are always kind.
I knew you want to stay in my heart.

I love you in your sadnesses.
They are all out of sincerity.
I love you every time I look at you.
It's like a graceful ghazal.


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