Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

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Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-05, 14:55

So in Persian a ه doesn't connect to another ه or is it just for the ها plural suffix?
ماه ---> ماه ها
هفته ---> هفته ها
but
سالها
شبها

Interestingly my Persian keyboard does allow ماهها

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-05, 16:12

I don't get it. Can't you use the plurals without the pronouns?
Also: what's the difference between ايشان and آنها?
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-05, 17:12

Nope, Farsi123.com is the easiest to use.

From an exercise to give negative answers:
شما نقاشيد؟
Official answer:
نه ما نقاش نيستيم
Say it was not the "royal 'we'" wouldn't we have to use the plural نقاش ها?

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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby eskandar » 2017-09-05, 21:53

Talha wrote:Just to be clear on the tens we are less bist oh yek more bistoh yek where the h is silent but written to make explicit the sound the و would make.

Not sure what you mean. It's written بیست و یک (with no h) and pronounced bist o yek.

Talha wrote:Queries in red:
Image

Yes, these are mistakes. It should be written with و.

Talha wrote:1. دختر is like بنت in Arabic in that it means 'girl' or 'daughter' depending on context, correct?

2. https://forvo.com/word/fa/%DA%A9%D9%88%D8%AF%DA%A9/#fa
I'm distinctly hearing the first pronunciation ending more like a چ sound. Regional variation?

As much as I have respect for your tremendous efforts, eskandar, I do encourage others if they have the knowledge to educate me too with these queries.

1. Correct.
2. You are hearing correctly and you are right to guess that it's a regional variation. Pronouncing [k] as [ch] is typical of the Azeri accent in Persian.

I hope others will step in and help you out as well but I think I'm the only one who actually posts in this mostly dead forum. There is another learner (Dariush) and the occasional junk/spam post here but I don't know of any other native or fluent speakers active on the forum.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-06, 14:38

eskandar wrote:I hope others will step in and help you out as well but I think I'm the only one who actually posts in this mostly dead forum. There is another learner (Dariush) and the occasional junk/spam post here but I don't know of any other native or fluent speakers active on the forum.


Came across this https://hinative.com - you can ask native speakers languages questions. Cute format. Not tested yet but will report back on experience.

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-07, 17:53

Hinative so far has been speedy for responses. Only made two enquiries.

My biggest hang up now after so much Arabic is forgetting the است at the end of sentences! Persian has a verb for 'to be' and it comes all the way at the end.
:roll:

Am doing what I should have done first time round. Make notes of sample sentences as I work through chapters from beginning - no English (Arabic if I have to). I like to use loose leaf A5 pages. They are accumulating fast but it is so easier to refer back to then scroll a PDF. I write the chapter on top. Gel pens - ah what a blessing.

My current set-up which seems to work well is to have two tabs in Chrome for Farzad PDF - current chapter and answer- then Parsi123.com, Forvo.com to paste words whose pronunciation I'm not sure of and HiNative.

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-07, 18:14

Their sister-in-law and our sister are in London today.

Official answer:
خواهر شوهر انها و خواهر ما امروز در لندن هستند

در لندن امروز هستند natural?

If you would kindly answer other questions above:
2017-09-05, 18:12
2017-09-05, 17:12
2017-09-05, 15:55

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eskandar
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby eskandar » 2017-09-07, 21:56

Talha wrote:Their sister-in-law and our sister are in London today.

Official answer:
خواهر شوهر انها آنها و خواهر ما امروز در لندن هستند

در لندن امروز هستند natural?

Understandable, but not natural. The order given above (first time, then place) is more natural. Plus in writing, your version could be read as در لندنِ امروز هستند dar landan-e emruz hastand ("are in today's London" - as opposed to, say, the London of the 1930s).

If you would kindly answer other questions above:
2017-09-05, 18:12
2017-09-05, 17:12
2017-09-05, 15:55

Sorry, overlooked these!

Talha wrote:So in Persian a ه doesn't connect to another ه or is it just for the ها plural suffix?
ماه ---> ماه ها
هفته ---> هفته ها
but
سالها
شبها

A ه can connect to another ه , for example in دهه dahe "decade". Often (though not always!) the ها suffix is written separately, or more properly with a نیم‌فاصله. So all of the following are possible:
هفته‌ها (most proper)
هفته ها (also very common)
هفتهها (not correct but you may encounter it online)

Talha wrote:I don't get it. Can't you use the plurals without the pronouns?
Also: what's the difference between ايشان and آنها?

You can use them without the pronouns. I think they were just showing you the full forms. In literary Persian ایشان is for humans and آنها is for everything else, but in contemporary Persian (especially colloquial) that distinction has to some degree been lost. One distinction that is still retained is that ایشان is also the formal third-person singular pronoun. So if you want to show respect for someone you're referring to in the third person, you have to use ایشان and cannot use آنها .

Talha wrote:From an exercise to give negative answers:
شما نقاشيد؟
Official answer:
نه ما نقاش نيستيم
Say it was not the "royal 'we'" wouldn't we have to use the plural نقاش ها?

No, whether ما is the "royal we" or the first person plural, the subject remains plural. It's unlike Arabic in that regard:
AR نحن ايرانيون 'we are Iranians' vs. FA ما ایرانی هستیم
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-13, 9:58

When is one likely to encounter خوبتر rather than بهتر?

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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-09-13, 10:09

Thoughts about these different versions? The second is closer to the English I guess:
1تهران از شيراز سردتر است
2تهران سردتر از شيراز است

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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby eskandar » 2017-09-13, 23:55

Talha wrote:When is one likely to encounter خوبتر rather than بهتر?

Rarely. Sometimes in poetry when meter or rhyme requires it, or in speech for a kind of ironic emphasis ("this is good but it could be...gooder").

Talha wrote:Thoughts about these different versions? The second is closer to the English I guess:
1تهران از شيراز سردتر است
2تهران سردتر از شيراز است

The first sounds more default/unmarked but they're both acceptable and both sound natural enough.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby eskandar » 2017-09-15, 6:55

By the way, if I could request your help this time: could you please check my Arabic translation here? It seemed ambiguous to me and there were a couple parts I was unsure about..
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

Talha
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Re: Going through Narguess Farzad's "Teach Yourself Modern Persian" - my personal accountability thread

Postby Talha » 2017-10-07, 18:19

What amazing good fortune that owing to last minute changes with the SOAS timetables I am now able to attend Narguess Farzad's actual Persian class for readers of Arabic script! :lol:
الحمد لله


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