Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Moderator: eskandar

PawełSz
Posts: 9
Joined: 2015-08-07, 9:57
Real Name: Paweł
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby PawełSz » 2016-06-04, 18:29

Abrreviations

Old Persian - Op
Middle Persian - Mp
New Persian/Farsi - F
Sanskrit - S

Indo-Iranian borrowings in Polish - Indo-iranian languages
1. baran ( ram) - Mp. varan (ram)
2. jastrząb /yastshomb/ (hawk , fast bird ) - F. asb / asp (horse)
3. biesiada (feast) , baśń , bajka /bayka/ (both mean fable) - S. bhasa (speak , language)
4. bóbr /bubr/ (beaver) - Mp. babrag > F. babar (beaver)
5. brzeg /bshekh/ (shore) - F. buland (high)
6. pchła /p'hwa/ - S. plusi (flea)
7. brzoza /bshoza/ - S. bhurya ( birch)
8. Bóg /bukh/ (God) - Op. Bagha ( God) , S. Bhaga (deity)
9. brat (brother) - mp. brad (brother)
10. brew /brev/ (eyebrown) - Op. abru (eyebrown) , S. bru (eyebrown)
11. być (be) , bydło /bidwo/ (cattle) - F. budan (be)
12. cep /tsep/ (stick) - S. śipha ( flexible root)
13. cewka /cevka/ (coil) - S. asivat (shin)
14. dar (gift) - S. dana (gift)
15. dać (give) - F. dadan (give)
16. dzięgieć /tsyengyets/ ( tar) - F. dag ( burn)
17. drzewo /dshevo/ (tree) - Op. daruv (tree) > F. dar (tree)
18. dziesięć /tsyesyents/ ( ten) - S. daśa (ten) , F. dah (ten)
19. dom (house) - S. dam (house)
20. drużyna /druzhyna/ (team) , druh (friend) , drugi /drukhi/ (second) - F. dorug (lie)
21. duma ( pride , old polish - breathe) - F. dam (breathe)
22. dusza /dusha/ (soul) , duch/duh/ (spirit) , dziw (wonder) - F. div (demon) , S. deva (god)
23. dwór /dvur/ (courtyard) - S. dvara (door)
24. dym (smoke) - S. dhuma (smoke)
25. dziąsło /dzyonswo/ (gum) - F. dandan (tooth)
26.......etc.

PawełSz
Posts: 9
Joined: 2015-08-07, 9:57
Real Name: Paweł
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby PawełSz » 2016-06-04, 19:25

26. Dziecko /dzyetsko/ (child) , doić ( verb - milk ) , dziewczyna /dzyevchinah/ (girl) , dziewica /dzyevitsa/ (virgin) – S. dhayati (suck) , F. daye (midwife, nurse)
27. córka /tsurka/ (daughter) > old-polish – deca /detsa/ (daughter) – S. duhit, F. duht (daughter)
28. deszcz /deshch/ (rain) > desh (bad) + ch(sky) – F. dazh (bad) + S. dyu (sky)
29. jeż /yezh/ (hedgehog) - F. zhuzh (hedgehog)
30. góra /khura/ (mountain) – F. khora (mountain)
31. gospodarz /khospodash/ (housekeeper) > gos (guest) + pod (lord) - Mp. Pet > F. bod (lord)
32. grzywa /khshiva/ (mane) – S. griva (neck)
33. gęś /khens/ (goose) - S. hasa (goose)
34. gardło /khardwo/ (throat) – F. galu (throat)
35. kość /kost/ (bone) – Kurdish – hesti (bone)
36. kura (hen) , kurwa (prostitute , whore) – maybe from – Mp. Kar (to do) > F. Kardan , Hindi – karna ( to do)
37.....

Do farsi and polish native speaker can communicate together ??

User avatar
mōdgethanc
Posts: 10658
Joined: 2010-03-20, 5:27
Gender: male
Location: Toronto
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-06-04, 19:53

What you have here is a bunch of words which are probably related to each other, mixed with a whole bunch of other words which only coincidentally resemble each other. Protip: Polish is an Indo-European language and distantly related to the Indo-Iranian family, so you will see some cognates. These are from common inheritance, not borrowing. Protip 2: you can't make a scientific comparison of languages by cherry-picking random words that happen to sort of look like each other.

PawełSz
Posts: 9
Joined: 2015-08-07, 9:57
Real Name: Paweł
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby PawełSz » 2016-06-05, 13:56

mōdgethanc wrote:What you have here is a bunch of words which are probably related to each other, mixed with a whole bunch of other words which only coincidentally resemble each other. Protip: Polish is an Indo-European language and distantly related to the Indo-Iranian family, so you will see some cognates. These are from common inheritance, not borrowing. Protip 2: you can't make a scientific comparison of languages by cherry-picking random words that happen to sort of look like each other.


But is many evidence about that Proto-Slavic languages borrowed from Iranian languages. It is not only theory - "The majority of Old Church Slavonic words have their direct cognates in other Indo-European languages. Besides the original Slavic vocabulary, a number of ancient Iranian and Germanic loan-words exist."
source - http://orbilat.com/Encyclopaedia/O/Old_ ... vonic.html

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23279
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby linguoboy » 2016-06-05, 14:41

PawełSz wrote:But is many evidence about that Proto-Slavic languages borrowed from Iranian languages. It is not only theory - "The majority of Old Church Slavonic words have their direct cognates in other Indo-European languages. Besides the original Slavic vocabulary, a number of ancient Iranian and Germanic loan-words exist."l

Read that quote more carefully: ""The majority of Old Church Slavonic words have their direct cognates in other Indo-European languages". That means that if you find an OCS word which coincides in form and meaning with an Indo-Iranian word, the most likely scenario is that they are cognates, not that one is borrowed from the other. You don't figure out if something is a borrowing rather than a cognate by guessing, you figure it out by rigourously examining the sound changes which have affected the presumed protoform of the word. If the word shows some early Indo-Iranian changes and then later shows Slavic developments, it's most likely a borrowing. But if all the differences between the modern form and the proposed protoform can be accounted for by changes internal to Slavic, then there's no reason at all to propose borrowing.

Take dom, for instance. This is exactly the form you would expect if Proto-Indo-European *dṓm had followed the usual course of development for inherited vocabulary in the Slavonic branch. There's absolutely no reason to propose a borrowing from Indo-Iranian dam--and, in fact, that only complicates matters, because then you have to account for a shift of the vowel from /a/ to /o/.

Or take the pair brzeg/buland. It's quite easy to account for the differences in form if you propose a Proto-Indo-European root *bʰerǵʰ- which took a different ending in Indo-Iranian (i.e. *-ent- yielding Proto-Indo-Iranian *bʰrj́ʰant-). But if you say the Polish form is a loan, then you have to account for irregular changes in main vowel, medial consonant, and ending of the word. In short, your proposal explains nothing which can't be explained more simply and straightforwardly another way.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
mōdgethanc
Posts: 10658
Joined: 2010-03-20, 5:27
Gender: male
Location: Toronto
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Several borrowings Indo-Iranian in Polish

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-06-05, 14:45

Yes, yes! To Obi-Wan you listen!
PawełSz wrote:But is many evidence about that Proto-Slavic languages borrowed from Iranian languages. It is not only theory - "The majority of Old Church Slavonic words have their direct cognates in other Indo-European languages. Besides the original Slavic vocabulary, a number of ancient Iranian and Germanic loan-words exist."
source - http://orbilat.com/Encyclopaedia/O/Old_ ... vonic.html
You just proved you don't know what a cognate or a theory is.


Return to “Persian/Farsi (فارسی)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest