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Hassaan Zia
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Re: Free talk

Postby Hassaan Zia » 2010-01-08, 23:29

You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D
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Re: Free talk

Postby Mert » 2010-01-08, 23:41

Hassaan Zia wrote:You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D


I used to think why it was not a sin to learn English for radical Muslims. :P
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Re: Free talk

Postby kalemiye » 2010-01-08, 23:42

Hassaan Zia wrote:You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D


Sultan Abdülhamit II used to hide the fact that he knew French from mullahs to keep his prestige as a good muslim :lol:.
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Re: Free talk

Postby Mert » 2010-01-08, 23:50

kalemiye wrote:
Hassaan Zia wrote:You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D


Sultan Abdülhamit II used to hide the fact that he knew French from mullahs to keep his prestige as a good muslim :lol:.


It's normal, because Ottoman's aim was panislamism after Berlin Treaty 1878.
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Re: Free talk

Postby kalemiye » 2010-01-09, 0:06

Mert wrote:
kalemiye wrote:
Hassaan Zia wrote:You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D


Sultan Abdülhamit II used to hide the fact that he knew French from mullahs to keep his prestige as a good muslim :lol:.


It's normal, because Ottoman's aim was panislamism after Berlin Treaty 1878.


I know, but it doesn't make it less fun. He had more books written in French and English than books written in Persian or Arabic.
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Re: Free talk

Postby Meera » 2010-01-09, 2:13

Hassaan Zia wrote:You know during British Rule in Indo-Pak, mullahs used to say that learning English is haraam because it is a language of non-muslims. :D


haha :P its funny because almost all muslims i know, know english!
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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby Gaile Irene » 2010-01-09, 2:43

Meera wrote:I have a funny haram story too! My parents own a resturant in Philadelphia and i waitress there sometimes. One time a Muslim man (a convert from christianty and he was american!) came into the resturant. He had the tradtional arab clothes on, the white scarf and robe etc. I dont where a hibjab, so when he saw me he covered his eyes and said that I should get a male waiter to serve him :P

I have two questions for you, Meera:
(1) How did you deal with the situation? Did you get him a male server?
(2) Do you offer a friends and family discount?!

* * *
I visited another neighborhood a few months ago and stopped at an Iranian-owned Middle-Eastern restaurant for lunch. Out of curiosity, I asked the owner about the halal issue. He said words to the effect, "Oh, those people. They come here once and they never come back." He gets plenty of business from Iranians, as well as many other nationalities, especially Americans, that he does not need to cater to the customer who will eat only zabiha halal. (He is Muslim and serves no pork, obviously, but prepares a wide variety of delicious dishes made with beef, lamb and chicken.)
All in all, it's a personal choice. People can choose whether to go to a particular restaurant. The problems start when certain people start demanding special treatment. Do you go along with them - because they are a customer, because you don't want trouble, etc.? How far should one accommodate someone's special requests based on religion?

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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby Meera » 2010-01-09, 3:47

Gaile Irene wrote:
Meera wrote:I have a funny haram story too! My parents own a resturant in Philadelphia and i waitress there sometimes. One time a Muslim man (a convert from christianty and he was american!) came into the resturant. He had the tradtional arab clothes on, the white scarf and robe etc. I dont where a hibjab, so when he saw me he covered his eyes and said that I should get a male waiter to serve him :P

I have two questions for you, Meera:
(1) How did you deal with the situation? Did you get him a male server?
(2) Do you offer a friends and family discount?!

* * *
I visited another neighborhood a few months ago and stopped at an Iranian-owned Middle-Eastern restaurant for lunch.


No i told him that if he didnt like it he could go somewhere else because there were plently of other customers there, and he asked me if the meat was halal and i said 100 percent halal. but he ended up leaving. Btw Gaile is that resturant on chestnut street? If its the same one, i have been there many times and an iranian lady owns it. Shes soo funny! :P and yes, we do offer discounts most of time free dessert.
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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby Gaile Irene » 2010-01-09, 4:50

Meera wrote:Gaile is that resturant on chestnut street?

Nope. It's outside the city limits.

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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby Meera » 2010-01-09, 4:52

Gaile Irene wrote:
Meera wrote:Gaile is that resturant on chestnut street?

Nope. It's outside the city limits.


whats it called?
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Re: Free talk

Postby Gaile Irene » 2010-01-09, 4:55

xxxxxx
(I've edited the post to leave out the name now. I don't think the owner thought he was giving an interview to the world.)

I have to add something related to food. There are some "fundamentalist" Sunnis who refuse to eat food prepared by Shia (I haven't heard of anything the other way around). This could be an issue here.
Last edited by Gaile Irene on 2010-01-09, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Free talk

Postby Hassaan Zia » 2010-01-09, 8:20

Gaile Irene wrote:Caspian Grill on Germantown Pike (West of Chestnut Hill).

I have to add something related to food. There are some "fundamentalist" Sunnis who refuse to eat food prepared by Shia (I haven't heard of anything the other way around). This could be an issue here.


In Pakistan, radical mullahs gave verdict that zabiha of a Shia is haraam for Sunnis. :D

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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-01-09, 12:33

Hassaan Zia wrote:In Pakistan, radical mullahs gave verdict that zabiha of a Shia is haraam for Sunnis. :D

I haven't had contact with such Sunnis to ask and I don't think I would dare, if ever. They seem to be quite aggressive. Can you tell me why they are so bad with Shias? AFAIK, it was them who didn't listen to the Prophet and changed the successor. Ghadir Khumm is undeniable. So, why they blame us? :?

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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby alijsh » 2010-01-09, 13:01

My exam is over :partyhat: and now I can read posts and reply :mrgreen:

camelkebab wrote:They say crazy stuff like "don't eat pork, that is a sin, you are a bad moslem". I tell them "if you think the essence of being a good moslem is to not eat pork you are an idiot". The essence of all religions is simply to bee a good person.

You are completely right. As we say, such people have remained in the appearance of the religion (در ظاهر دین مانده‌اند).

camelkebab wrote:I can only imagine how confusing and annoying these guys must be to americans etc. Here in Sweden a racist party is growing because of this and will probably be in the parlament after the next election.

So, these Muslims are making things against Islam. With the stories you friends are saying, I'm just understanding why hatred rate against Muslims is growing. I thought they bear a grudge but now, it is clear that Muslims are themselves responsible to a great extent. Thanks for the enlightenment.

camelkebab wrote:One colleague (from Irak) told me that when the space shuttle columbia exploded it was because going to space is haram. The funny thing is that he is an engineer. :lol:

That colleague hasn't apparently read Koran where we have: سخر لکم ما فی السماوات و ما فی الارض (God has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and the earth)

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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby alijsh » 2010-01-09, 13:50

Gaile Irene wrote:One sees these "pious" or "religious" people doing things that are plainly wrong or illegal (lying, tax-evasion, taking government benefits they are not qualified for, taking home things from restaurants or stores they should not, etc.) but these issues don't seem to matter to them. It is as if they think that because they cover every hair on the head, refuse to take vitamins, and will not wish someone a Happy New Year, everything else they do is okay.

I have also experienced it. Speaking about here, it is typical of people who pretend to be religious. I hate these hypocrite people and the contradictions in their behaviors. As camelkebab said, the essence of religion is to be good or as Zoroaster has said thousands of years ago: GOOD THOUGHTS, GOOD WORDS, GOOD DEEDS. So, I won't simply call these people Muslim (in broader sense: religious). A true follower/observant is not two-faced and is sincere in all his/her actions.

Gaile Irene wrote:Am I allowed to call this obsessive-compulsive behavior or narcissism or borderline personality disorder? (Others not so generous would call them "criminals".)

In the first place, I would call them hypocrite but there are certainly traces of narcissism because as I have found them, they are usually very arrogant and self-admiring. I don't consider them religious anyway. They are far from religion.

Gaile Irene wrote:The easiest way to deal with such people - is not to! I try to keep such people out of my life.

Of course you must do so.

Gaile Irene wrote:Unfortunately they often cause problems for others - their children sometimes become very confused and conflicted because of the lack of clear direction or reasoning as to what is wrong and what is right.

That's very true. I have experienced it. When their children grow up, they usually pace in the path of their parents. As we say: از کوزه همان برون تراود که در اوست

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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-01-09, 14:42

Hassaan Zia wrote:To everyone:

Hey guys! We are not here to hurt someone's feelings here, u know religion is one thing for which one can get hurted quite easily. So plz avoid such type of discussions as in this forum every type of people come[...]And we should also learn to respect other's perspective. So plz try to avoid such discussions. Hope you people won't mind my comment.

To Nadi:

We all do apologize. Now cheers :partyhat:

Hassaan, to where I have read the posts and Nadi posted that message, I haven't seen any hurting comments against Islam. Mert, Gaile Irene, Camlekebab, others and me are talking based on the things we have seen. Nadi, if you think your co-forum is wrong or misunderstood, enlighten him/her. We are here to learn from each other. And we are criticizing people who boast to be observant. We are not criticizing the religion itself. So, don't feel disappointed.

Nadi wrote:I feel uneasy just because I am a member of that cultural environment that is being evaluated negatively here

I'm a member of it too and like my religion but this bond doesn't cause me to close my eyes and don't criticize those people of this environment who are bad-showing my religion. I want to make it clear that a true observant doesn't behave like that. Do you understand what I mean? We must clear up things for the people outside this environment.

Nadi wrote:Unfortunately, your point of view which you have displayed here is readily accepted all over the world and we become the object of discrimination just because of our identity cards. How would you feel if you were in such a situation?

It is not all their problem. Their point of view comes from what they are often witnessing around themselves. If we behave moderately, they will change their view. Don't you think so?

Nadi wrote:Some time ago, one of my friends, who is an academician at a university here in Turkey was questioned by the police while he was visiting his family living in Europe. He says he was the only person questioned on the train and he felt this discrimination from the questions they asked him.

Yes, it is very bad that they are generalizing. The situation is much worse for Iranians.

Nadi wrote:I surprisingly see that, although they come from the same cultural environment, some friends are so eager to exaggarate and magnify the negative elements that are seen in their society. If you want, you can find tonns of them in any given society.

Certainly. As I wrote earlier, it is wrong to associate many things to one's religion.

Nadi wrote:“Stupid people. Are there (m)any Iranians among them?”

So, if there aren't any Iranians, will it make you happy? I am confused.

I'm not the kind of person who defends somebody because he/she is from the same country, religion, … as me. If I wrote so, it was because it is atypical of us to behave like that and I wanted to know about the case Gaile said. And of course having the idea that «it is haram to have Christian friends, to wish your Christian neighbor a "Merry Christmas", to celebrate a child's birthday party» is stupid. Where in the Koran such things have been said? These stupid people are bad-facing my religion. :( As Mawlana says: ما برای وصل کردن آمدیم / نی برای فصل کردن آمدیم – We came for connecting, not for separating (disconnecting :wink: )

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Re: Free talk

Postby Hassaan Zia » 2010-01-09, 14:48

alijsh wrote:
Hassaan Zia wrote:In Pakistan, radical mullahs gave verdict that zabiha of a Shia is haraam for Sunnis. :D

I haven't had contact with such Sunnis to ask and I don't think I would dare, if ever. They seem to be quite aggressive. Can you tell me why they are so bad with Shias? AFAIK, it was them who didn't listen to the Prophet and changed the successor. Ghadir Khumm is undeniable. So, why they blame us? :?


Well that's a different topic about succession, and I'm not going to indulge in it. :)

You know in Pakistan we Shias are in minority, and after the Islamic Revolution in Iran, Shias too began to form their parties in Pakistan and that was the moment when Ziaul Haqq and some powerful agenices formed SSP (Sipah e Sahaba e Pakistan), a terrorist organization whose only aim is to kill one shia to get reward of a hajj. :D
Shias are very insecure in Pakistan, thousands have been killed till yet. Even in Ashura of this year, we had a very devastating blast in mourning procession in Karachi. But still the vast majority of Pakistan is very educated and they hate this sectarian violence, but a minority is terrorizing the country. :(
They have given fatwa (verdict) that Iran is a Kafir country and Pakistan shouldn't have any relation with it whatsoever. :D They tried relentlessly to persuade govermnet to proclaim Shias as Kafirs, but you can't simply turn 40 millions of population Kafir by parliment vote. :D

But due to them Shia Conservatism arose in Pakistani Shia Youth, and Shias are the most conservative and religious faction of the complete population, thanks to Taliban and SSP.
As saying goes, that every action has a equal and opposite reaction. :D
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Re: Free talk

Postby Hassaan Zia » 2010-01-09, 14:52

alijsh wrote:
Nadi wrote:I feel uneasy just because I am a member of that cultural environment that is being evaluated negatively here

I'm a member of it too and like my religion but this bond doesn't cause me to close my eyes and don't criticize those people of this environment who are bad-showing my religion. I want to make it clear that a true observant doesn't behave like that. Do you understand what I mean? We must clear up things for the people outside this environment.


I am also a muslim and I consider myself a devout one, but still I didn't see anything wrong in criticising those things which are being implemented in the name of Islam.
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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-01-09, 15:26

Hassaan Zia wrote:Well that's a different topic about succession, and I'm not going to indulge in it. :)

Me too :wink:

Hassaan Zia wrote:a terrorist organization whose only aim is to kill one shia to get reward of a hajj. :D

I had heard different numbers: 7, 40, … So, it is one. I have also heard that they say the divine reward of killing the shia is Heaven (Behesht) :lol:

Hassaan Zia wrote:Even in Ashura of this year, we had a very devastating blast in mourning procession in Karachi.

Yes. I saw in the news. Peace be upon them.

Hassaan Zia wrote:But still the vast majority of Pakistan is very educated and they hate this sectarian violence, but a minority is terrorizing the country. :(

Good to know this. I thought it is the majority opinion.

Hassaan Zia wrote:They tried relentlessly to persuade govermnet to proclaim Shias as Kafirs

Why Kafir?!!! We are following the same prophet!

Hassaan Zia wrote:But due to them Shia Conservatism arose in Pakistani Shia Youth, and Shias are the most conservative and religious faction of the complete population, thanks to Taliban and SSP.

So, you don't have any Wahhabi's in Pakistan? These actions root from Wahhabi's, AFAIK.

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Re: مناسبت‌ها (Occasions)

Postby Gaile Irene » 2010-01-09, 17:14

alijsh wrote:
camelkebab wrote:I can only imagine how confusing and annoying these guys must be to americans etc. Here in Sweden a racist party is growing because of this and will probably be in the parlament after the next election.

So, these Muslims are making things against Islam. With the stories you friends are saying, I'm just understanding why hatred rate against Muslims is growing. I thought they bear a grudge but now, it is clear that Muslims are themselves responsible to a great extent.

I don't have much time now, but wanted to comment on this particular idea. I think people here in the U.S. in general are careful not apply the actions of a few to an entire religion or group (to be sure there are some people who do). I certainly do not intend to either. I was hoping to focus attention to some religion-related issues: misuse of religion (especially when it is used to control or hurt others), demands for special treatment because of religion, and more stories like these. Have you seen it? How does it happen? How should you or society deal with it?


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