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alijsh
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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-08-23, 3:42

Meera wrote:Not with Persian but Hindi has chnaged me a lot.

It is natural. Persian is a language of your country and a part of the culture of your country and your compatriots. Whereas Hindi belongs to another country and has many new things. The more different, the more changing.

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Re: Free talk

Postby Meera » 2010-08-24, 3:01

alijsh wrote:
Meera wrote:Not with Persian but Hindi has chnaged me a lot.

It is natural. Persian is a language of your country and a part of the culture of your country and your compatriots. Whereas Hindi belongs to another country and has many new things. The more different, the more changing.


No I meant Hindi is eaiser for me to learn then Persian. I think maybe because Pashto is closer to Urdu. Im trying so hard to learn Persian well. I dk what the barrier is. :(
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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-08-24, 3:21

Meera wrote:I think maybe because Pashto is closer to Urdu.

I don't think so! It must have another reason. Perhaps, you've heard Hindi/Urdu in childhood. Or, you are more interested in Urdu.
Meera wrote:Im trying so hard to learn Persian well. I dk what the barrier is. :(

Very strange. What is your problem exactly? Do you practice it enough? Do you study constantly or occasionally?

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Re: Free talk

Postby Meera » 2010-08-26, 22:03

alijsh wrote:
Meera wrote:I think maybe because Pashto is closer to Urdu.

I don't think so! It must have another reason. Perhaps, you've heard Hindi/Urdu in childhood. Or, you are more interested in Urdu.
Meera wrote:Im trying so hard to learn Persian well. I dk what the barrier is. :(

Very strange. What is your problem exactly? Do you practice it enough? Do you study constantly or occasionally?


Yes I think thats it because my whole family watches Indian movies from the time I was born. So I was always watching. And I do practice everday, but i think I dont listen engough to it :(reading isnt hard for me just listening.
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Re: Free talk

Postby shah_mardaan » 2010-08-30, 22:02

Every language is a new world :D

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Re: Free talk

Postby Hassaan Zia » 2010-08-31, 1:53

Does Your Language Shape How You Think?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magaz ... wanted=all
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Re: Free talk

Postby kalemiye » 2010-08-31, 13:06

Hassaan Zia wrote:Does Your Language Shape How You Think?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magaz ... wanted=all


Very nice article Hassaan! I am bookmarking it :).

Languages like Spanish, French, German and Russian not only oblige you to think about the sex of friends and neighbors, but they also assign a male or female gender to a whole range of inanimate objects quite at whim.


I am teaching some Spanish to my bf, and when it comes to genders of things he is always like "Well, how do you know? Can you see something I can't see?"

Learning "gendered" language in my opinion is difficult, no matter if your mothertongue is gendered as well. I had trouble back in high school remembering which words were masculine in french but feminine in Spanish and viceversa (i.e: el fin (sp) vs la fin (fr)); this also affected the speech of an Italian friend of mine, who would translate alla fine as "a la final", instead as "al final", which is the correct way.

Turkish and Persian are a liberation im that sense, but I still make minor mistakes regarding number. I.e: "Do ketab (دو کتاب)" would be said expressed as *do ketabha in Spanish (los libros)

. A German bridge is feminine (die Brücke), for instance, but el puente is masculine in Spanish


This fact is actually wrong. Eventhough the most common way of addressing a bridge is as masculine, it can also be said as "la puente", and it's perfectly correct :)
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Re: Free talk

Postby Nazīr » 2010-09-02, 5:35

alijsh wrote:And it is expected to only have talks among Persian-learning Unilangers. Thanks dear lurkers for your understanding.

How strict is the ban on people who aren't learning Persian to participate in this thread? I've been deliberating for months about whether or not to commit to studying Persian. If it counts for anything, I've learned a lot about the language from a linguistic perspective in order to help me make my decision.
ख़ुसरो दरिया प्रेम का उल्टा वा धार । जो उतरा सो डूब गया जो डूबा सो पार | अमीर ख़ुसरौ दहलवी
O Khusro, the river of love runs in strange directions. |
The one who enters it drowns, and the one who drowns, gets across. |
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Re: Free talk

Postby camelkebab » 2010-09-02, 16:15

Velayati wrote:
alijsh wrote:And it is expected to only have talks among Persian-learning Unilangers. Thanks dear lurkers for your understanding.

How strict is the ban on people who aren't learning Persian to participate in this thread? I've been deliberating for months about whether or not to commit to studying Persian. If it counts for anything, I've learned a lot about the language from a linguistic perspective in order to help me make my decision.


so what's your decision? and what is your motive to study persian?

i think you should learn it :y:

i will teach you your first words:

عدس پلو
it is pronounced "adas polow"

adas = lentil
polow = cooked rice

it is the tastiest persian dish :yep:

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Re: Free talk

Postby Oleo » 2010-09-02, 20:45

camelkebab wrote:عدس پلو
it is pronounced "adas polow"

adas = lentil
polow = cooked rice

it is the tastiest persian dish :yep:


I've eaten many Iranian dishes, but don't remember having eaten this one. From which area is it?

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Re: Free talk

Postby eskandar » 2010-09-02, 20:53

It's a national dish, it doesn't belong to any one particular area.
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Re: Free talk

Postby Nazīr » 2010-09-03, 22:34

camelkebab wrote:
Velayati wrote:


so what's your decision?

That's the problem; I'm having trouble making a decision. If I ultimately decide against the Arabic program I'm considering, then it's full speed ahead with Persian. I should also add that Chicago is known for its large Arab population. Unlike California or DC, there are relatively few Persian speakers here.

camelkebab wrote:and what is your motive to study persian?

i think you should learn it :y:

Appreciate your support, camelkebab. :) I really don't want to give the terribly clichéd reason of "I love the culture" but it's true in my case. Like a lot of people, Iran really captured my attention last summer and I'm fascinated by its modern history and the workings of its political system. Persian is among the world's great literary languages and it's really cool to see the work of ancient poets continue to play such an important role in the modern culture. Persian is also the language of one of the world's most acclaimed cinematic movements, the Iranian New Wave.

Plus, it's spoken in Afghanistan! Beautiful country, and careerwise I'm considering doing something related to human development in the Af-Pak region.

Because of the relatively simple grammar and shared Indo-European origin, it's often cited as one of the easier languages out there for an English speaker to learn. And since Persian has greatly influenced Urdu, I feel that gives me an additional advantage as a student. I love the phonology and just how the language sounds in general. When I first began Teach Yourself Persian, I spent nearly half an hour on a single dialogue, doing my best to imitate the accent. :oops:

I've also read some of the writings of Allameh Tabatabaei and Seyyed Hossein Nasir, and would like to further explore the theology of Shi'ism. I believe it was Rafsanjani who said that the best way to understand Iran as a nation and what it means to be Iranian is to be Shia.

There are also some amazing cultural ambassadors in the Iranian diaspora whose work I really admire. Hooman Majd, Shohreh Aghdashloo, and Reza Aslan are some names that come to mind.

camelkebab wrote:i will teach you your first words:

عدس پلو
it is pronounced "adas polow"

adas = lentil
polow = cooked rice

it is the tastiest persian dish :yep:

Thanks! I've heard a lot about kebabs and ghormeh sabzi, but this is the first mention of adas polow I've come across. Lentils are a staple of Pakistani cuisine so I would love to try it.
Last edited by Nazīr on 2010-09-04, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.
ख़ुसरो दरिया प्रेम का उल्टा वा धार । जो उतरा सो डूब गया जो डूबा सो पार | अमीर ख़ुसरौ दहलवी
O Khusro, the river of love runs in strange directions. |
The one who enters it drowns, and the one who drowns, gets across. |
Amīr Khusro of Dehlī (1253–1325 CE)

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Re: Free talk

Postby eskandar » 2010-09-03, 23:33

Velayati wrote:I should also add that Chicago is known for its large Arab population. Unlike California or DC, there are relatively few Persian speakers here.

That's certainly a factor to consider, and if you're looking for a language that you can practice in Chicago you'll probably have more opportunities to use Arabic. However, Iranians tend to be more happy to help foreigners learn their language than most other nations - I think you'll find that if you seek out Iranians to learn/converse with, you'll find some very enthusiastic participants. A good example of that can be found on Unilang itself; though Arabic is spoken by more people worldwide and is currently more popular amongst foreign language learners, the Persian forum here is far more active than the Arabic forum and people like our moderator alijsh are very dedicated to teaching the language. Additionally, I don't know what university you're at, but University of Chicago has one of the best Persian programs in the world outside of Iran.

And since Persian has greatly influenced Urdu, I feel that gives me an additional advantage as a student.

It definitely does - I think Hassaan Zia on this forum, who is a native speaker of Urdu, was able to learn more Persian in four months than I've learned in four years. You should talk to him about his experience with the language.
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Re: Free talk

Postby Nazīr » 2010-09-05, 2:04

Appreciate your reply, eskandar :)

eskandar wrote:However, Iranians tend to be more happy to help foreigners learn their language than most other nations - I think you'll find that if you seek out Iranians to learn/converse with, you'll find some very enthusiastic participants.

That's good to know. I've already begun to contact some of my Persian-speaking friends for help. I'll also keep an eye out for cultural events in the area.

eskandar wrote:A good example of that can be found on Unilang itself; though Arabic is spoken by more people worldwide and is currently more popular amongst foreign language learners, the Persian forum here is far more active than the Arabic forum and people like our moderator alijsh are very dedicated to teaching the language.

Very true. Persian seems to be quite popular here. The respective forums of more widely spoken Arabic and Hindi are pretty much dead in terms of activity, while Persian is rare in having such a passionate community of regular contributors.

And yes, alijsh is amazing. He's seriously one of Unilang best moderators. I've gone through a lot of threads (i admit that I spend way too much time lurking), and not only am I impressed by his knowledge of all things related to the Persian language, but also how patient and prompt he is in his replies.

eskandar wrote:Additionally, I don't know what university you're at, but University of Chicago has one of the best Persian programs in the world outside of Iran.

Not there myself, but my cousin is. She attended UChicago's Persian Summer Session last year and is currently a graduate student there getting her master's in Middle Eastern Studies. Growing up, we didn't know each other that well, but I think she would be willing to help.

eskandar wrote:I think Hassaan Zia on this forum, who is a native speaker of Urdu, was able to learn more Persian in four months than I've learned in four years. You should talk to him about his experience with the language.

Hassaan's progress is incredible. I've already gotten in touch with him and look forward to hearing what he has to say.
ख़ुसरो दरिया प्रेम का उल्टा वा धार । जो उतरा सो डूब गया जो डूबा सो पार | अमीर ख़ुसरौ दहलवी
O Khusro, the river of love runs in strange directions. |
The one who enters it drowns, and the one who drowns, gets across. |
Amīr Khusro of Dehlī (1253–1325 CE)

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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-09-07, 12:39

camelkebab wrote:عدس پلو
it is pronounced "adas polow"

adas = lentil
polow = cooked rice

it is the tastiest persian dish :yep:

Really! Like many others, I would say «qormesabzi» is the best. Many people don't like adaspolo but I personally like. Especially during exams. It is good for those who study. How about عدسی? Have you ever eaten?

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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-09-07, 13:21

Velayati wrote:I've also read some of the writings of Allameh Tabatabaei and Seyyed Hossein Nasir, and would like to further explore the theology of Shi'ism. I believe it was Rafsanjani who said that the best way to understand Iran as a nation and what it means to be Iranian is to be Shia.

You can also understand Islam better, not just Iranians. Persian literature is a treasure for everybody, and us Muslims in particular. You don't have to convert (which you had talked about) but I seriously recommend you to study Shia theology in detail. You know, the Prophet couldn't live enough to explain everything thoroughly and His Descendants have really left much for us to explore and gauge with the mind (even, for instance, Abu Hanifa has learned much from the 6th Imam. Another example is Iqbal Lahuri, whom we call «شیعه‌ترین سنی» [the most Shia Sunni]). It is good to learn some Arabic but I'd say you to learn Persian, and learn it well. It is far more useful for Urdu speakers, whom even historically, got acquainted with Islam thru Persian. You can also know your own language better.

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Re: Free talk

Postby camelkebab » 2010-09-08, 12:30

alijsh wrote:Really! Like many others, I would say «qormesabzi» is the best. Many people don't like adaspolo but I personally like. Especially during exams. It is good for those who study. How about عدسی? Have you ever eaten?


yeah, qhormesabzi is nice. I didn't know adaspolow was good food for when studying, for me it was all about pizza and crisps and pretty much anything with a lot of sugar in it. The normal thing here is to drink a lot of coffe. I have never heard of adasi, my guess is that it is some kind of soup?

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Re: Free talk

Postby alijsh » 2010-09-08, 17:15

camelkebab wrote:I have never heard of adasi, my guess is that it is some kind of soup?

Yes, kind of soup made from lentils. Google adasi and you'll find its recipe.

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Re: Free talk

Postby Nazīr » 2010-09-18, 20:46

Thank you for your reply, alijsh. I apologize for my delayed response; it’s been a little hectic lately with Eid, family, and school taking up so much time.

alijsh wrote:You can also understand Islam better, not just Iranians. Persian literature is a treasure for everybody, and us Muslims in particular.

Well-said. Contrary to what many orthodox Sunnis believe, Shi’ism is an integral part of Islam and not some deviant heresy. I absolutely agree with you on the universality of Persian literature. The works of Rumi, Attar, Jami and others have spiritual value not only for Muslims but humanity as a whole.

alijsh wrote:You don't have to convert (which you had talked about) but I seriously recommend you to study Shia theology in detail.

Yes, I had originally mentioned my brief interest in conversion, but later edited my post to clear up any confusion. My initial interest in Shi’ism was not because of its predominance in Iran, but of my desire to learn about the diversity within Islam.

About a year and a half ago, I went through what would be considered a “spiritual crisis” and this experience led me to not only explore the Islam of the Shias, but also the Islam of the Salafis, Ismailis, Ahmadis, Mu'tazilites, reformists, progressives and modernists.

A blogger at a site for progressive Muslims does an excellent job of explaining the appeal of Shi’ism to those dissatisfied with the austerity of Sunni Islam. She writes:

Yet the Shi'ah, despite their theological difficulties, do have established patterns of deep and abiding emotional experiences tied into the definition of the faith. To be Shi'i is to remember Karbala. To be Shi'i is to grieve for martyred leaders who might-have-been and should-have-been. The Shi'i year is a circle of gut-wrenching holidays from both joyous and mournful ends of the emotional spectrum. In addition, Indian traditions of emotional connection to God through song and poetry - bhakti - infuse many Shi'ah traditions, particularly the Isma'ili. Where I find the palette of emotions on Sunni websites and in the Sunni community to be a dull grey, the Shi'ah have a world full of deep and profound colour.

To make a long story short, my fascination with Shi’ism became more academic than spiritual in nature. And this interest deepened with my desire to learn more about Iran and the role of Shi'ism in Iranian society. That Rafsanjani quote I mentioned is from Hooman Majd's The Ayatollah Begs To Differ and it reflects how the Shia narrative defines the Iranian experience. I recently saw a documentary (which I'll post in the movies thread) about Iranian pilgrims traveling to Imam Hossein's shrine. It shows the personal struggles of ordinary Iranians (witnessing the Revolution, fighting in the Iran-Iraq war, surviving social upheaval etc.) and how they relate to the tragedy of Karbala.

Not too long ago I read an essay by an American translator of Persian poetry. He talks about the difficulties Westerners face when translating Persian texts, one being how unfamiliar they are with the Shia references and themes that prevail in Persian literature from the Safavid era and onwards. I'll post the link in the Articles about Persian language thread once I can find it again.

Abbas Amanat's work is also worth mentioning. I would love to get my hands on his book, Apocalyptic Islam and Iranian Shi'ism. According to Amanat, "the messianic paradigm and hope for salvation is something very old in Iranian culture, perhaps as old as inception of Iran." His research suggests that Shi'ism in Iran was shaped considerably by Zoroastrianism, most notably absorbing its dualistic worldview of the eternal battle between good and evil. You can read more about his research in this book review.

alijsh wrote:You know, the Prophet couldn't live enough to explain everything thoroughly and His Descendants have really left much for us to explore and gauge with the mind (even, for instance, Abu Hanifa has learned much from the 6th Imam.

Interesting point about these two men, both of whom founded mazhabs (Hanafi and Ja'fari). As his student, Imam Abu Hanifah respected Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq and held him in high esteem. Despite this amity between the two founders, extremist Hanafis in Pakistan are waging a violent war* against the country’s Shias, which has claimed more than 4000 lives in the last decade alone. It's quite the irony considering that Pakistan's founding father, President, and Prime Minister are all Shia.

*15% of Pakistanis belong to a revivalist Hanafi subsect known as the Deobandi movement, which exercises influence far beyond its numbers. Deobandi doctrine teaches that Shias (20% of Pakistanis) are heretics and outside the fold of Islam. The Taliban and all of Pakistan's major Sunni militant groups are offshoots of the Deobandi movement.

alijsh wrote:Another example is Iqbal Lahuri, whom we call «شیعه‌ترین سنی» [the most Shia Sunni]).

That‘s quite the title Iranians have bestowed upon Iqbal; his love for the Ahle Bayt is well documented in his poetry. I was also surprised to find out that Ayatollah Khamenei is an ardent admirer of Iqbal and his work.

alijsh wrote:It is good to learn some Arabic but I'd say you to learn Persian, and learn it well. It is far more useful for Urdu speakers, whom even historically, got acquainted with Islam thru Persian.

Absolutely correct. For Pakistan’s religious parties, Islamisization has come to mean Arabization, when in fact our uniquely South Asian Islamic heritage has stronger Persian roots than Arab.

My avatar picture is the shrine of Hazrat Ali Hajveri, the patron saint of Lahore. Also known as Data Ganj Baksh, he was a Persian Sufi who migrated to Lahore in the 11th century and is widely regarded as one of the most important figures in the spread of Islam throughout the Subcontinent. His seminal work, Kashf ul-Mahjub, is a landmark in Sufi literature and the first Sufi treatise to be written in the Persian language.

alijsh wrote:You can also know your own language better.

Exactly. Formal Urdu is very Persianized and learning Farsi would help me with the vocabulary and grammatical structures Urdu has borrowed.

Sorry for the long post and going off on so many tangents :oops:
ख़ुसरो दरिया प्रेम का उल्टा वा धार । जो उतरा सो डूब गया जो डूबा सो पार | अमीर ख़ुसरौ दहलवी
O Khusro, the river of love runs in strange directions. |
The one who enters it drowns, and the one who drowns, gets across. |
Amīr Khusro of Dehlī (1253–1325 CE)

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Re: General discussion

Postby shprakh » 2010-09-21, 5:06

!سلام
I'd like to have these words in Persian (latin script and abjad):

- language
- book
- student
- to study
- beautiful
- culture
- music
- love
- boyfriend/girlfriend
- to travel
- country
- mountain

That's it for now :D
Thanks in advance.


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