Kurdish Discussion Group

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Sisyphe
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-09-05, 3:43

*waits for Kurds to appear*
I'd be making as much of a speculation about that as you would be.
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Postby adventrue » 2007-09-26, 13:49

what does the following mean?
"ez zewci me heta ez dixwazim".

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Postby alijsh » 2007-10-01, 15:24

Sisyphe wrote:Unfortunately, Kurdish didn't lose its case system distinctions like Persian did

Persian hasn't lost its case system; its expression differs from that of Avestan and Old Persian. We have genitive, accusative and vocative (not used much) cases. besides, ablative (e.g. in Persian we say: I asked from you, instead of I asked you, i.e. from marks ablative case: az to porsidam), locative, dative, instrumental, etc. are all marked with prepositions. That's why Persian has free word order like Latin (az to porsidam, porsidam az to).

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-10-01, 19:50

Ok then...in any case, noun morphology as far as inflecting nouns to reflect grammatical function no longer exists in Persian...I can say that we have a 'case system' in English or French, but when push comes to shove, it's really a moot technicality and certainly not how either language would be taught or acquired. Anyway...I suppose it would be more accurate to say that Persian is a language that does not decline its nouns to display case.
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Postby alijsh » 2007-10-02, 13:36

Sisyphe wrote:Ok then...in any case, noun morphology as far as inflecting nouns to reflect grammatical function no longer exists in Persian

I had already said its expression differs from that of Old Persian (Russian, etc.). But anyway, Persian marks cases with either prepositions (dative, ablative, etc.) or endings (genitive, vocative, accusative) and differs from English. In Persian we say, I helped <b>to</b> you (dative), I asked <b>from</b> you (ablative), etc. In English, we say: I helped/asked you.

It's easy to prove accusative is not marked in French and English: "the dog bit the man / le chien a mordu l'homme". If you change the word order, you get "the man bit the dog" which has an entirely different meaning. Now Persian: sag mard-râ gâz gereft, mard-râ sag gâz gereft, gâz gereft mard-râ sag, gâz gereft sag mard-râ :wink: (râ is an enclitic although it's writen separately in Perso-Arabic script)

Sisyphe wrote:Anyway...I suppose it would be more accurate to say that Persian is a language that does not decline its nouns to display case

I agree especially that Persian is gender-neuter.

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Postby ego » 2007-10-02, 13:49

To me, cases denote a change in the word's morphology. Cases are the different forms a word can take in order to specify its grammatical function. So Persian doesn't have cases. Or else I'd say that the prepositions denote the grammatical function of the word. But not the case

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Postby alijsh » 2007-10-02, 13:51

Daristani has given valuable information here. I recommend everybody to read his posts.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-10-02, 16:44

@Alijsh: I'm sure you can imagine that I've heard some...different constructions here in Southern California [under the influence of English, Armenian, Assyrian, etc.], but I can't say that I've heard most of those syntax inversions - they seem to be more of a technical possibility than a common utility. ;) Râ is the obvious exception however.
Anyway, if someone who was interested in learning Persian were to ask me how Persian is, I would definitely tell them that Persian is a language without cases - it would be misleading to make someone think that simple prepositions do not have equivalents in their own language, by instead substituting it with a needlessly complicated sketch of nominative, accusative, locative, dative, ablative and vocative. It's really not that complicated. :P BTW, when I first started learning Persian, I learned that it had these 'cases' - that really needlessly diminished Persian's transparency for me, because I thought in terms of cases rather than 'to', 'from,' 'oh!' and so on. Perhaps a Russian or a German might be able to adapt more easily to this way of thinking. But then again, I was 12 when I started learning Persian, and the only language I had dealt with that had cases was Koine Greek [under compulsion from my parents] - and I was only conscious of the cases in Koine...I as a Christian 'learned' to read it, but faithful reproduction was not one of the goals.

@Ego: I'm glad I'm not hallucinating here. :lol:
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sisyphe

Postby 0stsee » 2007-10-02, 22:46

Off-topic.

Gee, Sysiphe!
So you speak Haitian Creole, started learning Persian with twelve, and learned Greek Koine as a kid? :shock:
Ini tandatanganku.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-10-03, 3:34

Meh...I don't even mention Koine Greek usually...I can do nothing with it now, but it was for the purpose of the conversation. Anyway, I don't know if you caught it, but I was forced to learn Greek...my parents are Christian fundamentalists. :twisted: As for starting Persian at 12...I still have some of my writings from back then, and I promise you...they're horrific. :lol: Starting doesn't mean learning 'correctly' per se...
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Postby assal » 2007-11-27, 13:02

Silav!

Ez nû hatim. Bibehşin zimanê kurdî nizanim lê ez hîn dibim.

Thank you very much for kurdish lessons!

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Postby Aleco » 2008-06-21, 18:24

Kurmancî lessons

0stsee wrote:
Sisyphe wrote:
nettchelobek1 wrote:how many cases does it have?

Unfortunately, Kurdish didn't lose its case system distinctions like Persian did:( ...but the Kurdish case system is still a lot easier than other Middle Eastern languages like Turkish, Azeri or Arabic :D :shock: . Kurdish has 3 cases: nominative, indirect and vocative.
Before you ask the question, it has 6 verb tenses: present, future, past, past prolonged, perfect and pluperfect.

This is much more confusing than Norwegian. How are they supposed to communicate with each other?? :?

Haha :haha:

If I wanted to learn Kuridsh, where should I learn it from? Wouldn't it be best to learn through MSN or the like from a native or some other speaker? I just discovered these languages as I thought they were in some other Asian language family :P But the fact that it's Indo-European makes it more interesting indeed! And a great chance to learn such a wonderful alphabet!! So, anyone who would be able to teach me some? And the dialect thing is indeed bothersome... Like, Kurmancî or Soranî?
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Postby eskandar » 2008-06-30, 0:11

assal wrote:Silav!

Ez nû hatim. Bibehşin zimanê kurdî nizanim lê ez hîn dibim.


I hope no one minds if I try to translate this. I can figure out most of it, but there are a few unfamiliar words I had to guess at.

Hello!

I am new. Pardon me, I don't know the Kurdish language, but I am learning.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kchi-kurdi » 2009-01-08, 18:39

hey every one
im from the UK and im a native kurdish speaker. .. if any1 is interested in either kurdish/ english or arabic language, will be happy to help...

Kateki xush ( good day)!

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kalemiye » 2009-01-15, 13:16

Hey Kchi-Kurdi (does it mean kurdish girl or something like this?), I wonder if the Kurmanci you speak is like the one is written. I mean, here in TUrkey I know some Kurds that basically told me that there are many times in which they cannot read what is written in Kurdish newspapers, etc, so they basically have to "study" Kurdish. Is because they speak some other dialect of Kurdish or because the standard is a mixture of several dialects? (Here in Turkey Kurdish is written with a modified alphabet taken from the one used for Turkish).
Not available

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby kchi-kurdi » 2009-02-20, 11:07

hey renata,
yes kchi-kurdi = kurdish girl . ..
well, i dont actually speak the kurmanci dialect , i understand it but i speak the sorani dialect. . . i can read the arabic-like alphebets but i also use the latin (phonetic, you speak it how it is written) with many of my friends, because like u said, not every one (expecially the people who dont live in kurdistan) can read / write the kurdish alphebets, therefore most people use the latin alphebet. . .


:) hope that helps and answers your question. ..

i am native speaker, so if anyone needs any help with the kurdish language especially the sorani dialect. . .just get in touch ..

:yep:

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby rojin » 2009-02-20, 12:11


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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ati » 2010-05-30, 23:43

kalemiye wrote:here in TUrkey I know some Kurds that basically told me that there are many times in which they cannot read what is written in Kurdish newspapers


It has some reasons:

Firstly Kurdish has mainly four dialects. Zazaki,Kurmanchi,Gorani,Sorani.And Kurds live in a large zone. And each dialect is influenced by Persian or Arabic or Turkish. Even in Turkia,Sometimes we don't understand idioms and dialects of North Turkish people although they have a regular and systematic education system.

Secondly,Kurdish language is developed by itself. It didn't have systematic and institutional education and teaching. So it had to develop by different ways.

and lastly I share my memory in Iran. I visited Urmia and I couldn't understand their AZARI. It was too different from Azari of Azerbaijan. And it is same that a Kurd who live in Turkia may not understand Kurdish of Iranian Kurd.
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Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-26, 15:28

Irrisim wrote:
kman1 wrote:Ok I think I understand Kurdish a bit better after reading some of the posts here. So if I want to learn Kurdish using the Arabic script then I should learn Sorani not Kurmanci since Sorani is the main dialect used in Iraq, correct? Then Sorani is the one I'll learn.

No. It is not.
Kurmancî is the main dialect used in Iraq, Soraní is not taught in schools, and it is only spoken by the Yezidi, Talabani and some Southern Kurds.
Kurmancî is, and has always been the biggest and main dialect in all of the Kurdish region, Kurdistan.
Anyhow, the Kurdish region - Kurdistan, is not to be confused with the province of Kurdistan (Kordestan) which is located in Iran, and officially recognised by the Iranian government.
The main language of Kordestan is Soraní Kurdish. So, it all depends on who you wanna communicate with.
I'm moving to Kordestan in a copule of years for study at the uni there.
Kurmancî is spoken by most Kurds, but Soraní is second largest.
I'd suggest you learn both, Kurmancî first, because all Soraní speaking adults speak Kurmancî as well, as does some Kurmancî speakers speak Soraní.

Bi xêr hatin kman1 8)


Please don't lie..... Sorani is what is taught in schools in Iraq--- Slemani, Erbil, parts of dyala and kerkuk speak sorani, only the very small duhok and parts of mosul speak kirmanji.........

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Re: Kurdish Discussion Group

Postby ocmentos » 2010-12-26, 15:49

ati wrote:
kalemiye wrote:here in TUrkey I know some Kurds that basically told me that there are many times in which they cannot read what is written in Kurdish newspapers


It has some reasons:

Firstly Kurdish has mainly four dialects. Zazaki,Kurmanchi,Gorani,Sorani.And Kurds live in a large zone. And each dialect is influenced by Persian or Arabic or Turkish. Even in Turkia,Sometimes we don't understand idioms and dialects of North Turkish people although they have a regular and systematic education system.

Secondly,Kurdish language is developed by itself. It didn't have systematic and institutional education and teaching. So it had to develop by different ways.

and lastly I share my memory in Iran. I visited Urmia and I couldn't understand their AZARI. It was too different from Azari of Azerbaijan. And it is same that a Kurd who live in Turkia may not understand Kurdish of Iranian Kurd.

The only reason Kurds in Turkey aren't educated is because of Turks like you, In Iraq it has been taught for over 50 years in schools then in universities....


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