Kurmanji Study Group

Moderator: voron

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-11-26, 19:19

A complaint: I'm doing the exercises on p.72, and I'm seeing this word that means 'to look':
nihêrîn

Why can't they be consistent and stick to just one word for the same concept, at least within this book? :doggy: It's already the forth word for 'to look' that I encounter, the other three being:
nerîn
mêzîn
mêze kirin

They are obviously pairwise related, but anyway, why not just using one of them? Do they want to demostrate the variation in dialects or what?

And if this is not already confusing enough, there is also a separate word for 'to see' which is irregular:
Infinitive and past tense root: dît
Present tense root: bîn

Why can't they be like Arabs and have just one word for 'to see', 'to look' and 'to watch'? (AFAIK all three are شوف in some Syrian dialects).

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-11-26, 20:15

Ex.7 on p.72
1. bibe, da
2. biçe, ma
3. veke, geriya
4. bike, xebitiya

Ex.8 on p.73
1. ji bo ku
2. ji bo
3. ji bo
4. ji bo ku
5. ji bo ku

Ex.9 on p.73
1. wî sîwan girt
2. stand
3. li taksiyê siwar bû
4. gelek pirtûkan dixwînim
5. te ye.

Ex.2 on p.75
1-c
2-e
3-b
4-a
5-d

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-11-28, 19:41

Skipping exercise Nivîs on p.77. I don't feel like making up sentences about what the humanity should do to protect the environment. :P

Exercise 3 on p.79
1. dike
2. dikin
3. dikin
4. dikin
5. dikim

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-29, 7:21

Holy crap, you're almost done with the whole unit! :shock:
voron wrote:
Well dang, that was probably the most intense passage I've ever read in a language textbook before.

It doesn't look like it was too difficult for you. :whistle:

I wouldn't say it was difficult per se, but I'm probably more surprised than I should be that it's about topics that are so pertinent nowadays like global warming. :shock:

I'll attempt the exercise on p. 79:

1. Hogir dike li otobûsê siwar bibe.
2. Hin hevalên min dikin bên serdana me.
3. Ez û birayê xwe dikin li balafirê siwar bibin.
4. Tu û Zozan dikin kê bibînin?
5. Ez dikim helbestekê binivîsim.

While listening to these :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiRghIgutSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYpI4xncm1k

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-11-29, 18:48

vijayjohn wrote:Holy crap, you're almost done with the whole unit! :shock:

Because you were flirting with Arabic for too long. :whistle:

One note about this "dikim + subjunctive" construction from the last exercise you did, which Hînker calls "Dema Bê ya Nêzîk" (Close Future). I haven't heard it from natives, but I did hear it in songs. For example, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkR8irdLEw8&t=30

Ez dikim herim, yar min ra nayê
or, in the standard language
Ez dikim herim, yar bi min re nayê - I'm leaving/ I'm about to leave, but my beloved doesn't come with me.

I find it appropriate to translate this construction into English as "I'm going to" or "I'm about to".

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-11-29, 19:46

The tale on p.80 of Hînker, I have it as a separate book with wonderful illustrations. Here are two pages from it:
https://ibb.co/1qx8NyG

I am not at the computer right now, I'll upload all the pages tomorrow.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-01, 3:21

That's neat! :D
voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Holy crap, you're almost done with the whole unit! :shock:

Because you were flirting with Arabic for too long. :whistle:

See? Told you those sections are too hard for me! :P
One note about this "dikim + subjunctive" construction from the last exercise you did, which Hînker calls "Dema Bê ya Nêzîk" (Close Future). I haven't heard it from natives, but I did hear it in songs. For example, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkR8irdLEw8&t=30

Ez dikim herim, yar min ra nayê
or, in the standard language
Ez dikim herim, yar bi min re nayê - I'm leaving/ I'm about to leave, but my beloved doesn't come with me.

I find it appropriate to translate this construction into English as "I'm going to" or "I'm about to".

Interesting!

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-01, 20:54

A news article that I liked because it's about both Kurdistan and Belarus (English subtitles in the video):
http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/190420182

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-02, 11:59

Exercise 4 on p.81
1. Dîko nikul li çortanê da.
2. Pîrê şûnik li qorika dîko da.
3. Pîrê dîko qewirand.
4. Dîko rastî kerekê hat.
5. Marek jî bû hevalê wan.
6. Dûpişkek kete nav koma wan.
7. Bangeranek tevî wan bû.
8. Dîko û hevalên wî li malê xwe veşartin.
9. Pîra cadûkar hate malê.
10. Pîra cadûkar ji malê reviya.
11. Mal ji dîko re ma.

Some observations about changing the verb valence in Kurmanji (creating the causative aspect or making it intransitive). There are several different ways:
1) Most common one: if the verb is regular (i.e. it ends in -în), then replacing the ending with -andin creates the causative.
Examples:
herikîn - to flow; herikandin - to make flow, to pour
guherîn - to change, intransitive; guherandin - to change, transitive

2) If the auxilary verb is hatin (to come), then the causative is made by replacing it with anîn (to bring)
pêk hatin - to be composed of; pêk anîn - to compose

3) If the auxilary verb is çûn (to go), then the causative is made by replacing it with birin (to take away)
têk çûn - to lose, to be defeated; têk birin - to win, to defeat

4) If the auxilary verb is ketin (to fall), then the causative is made by replacing it with xistin (to put)
pêş ketin - to develop, to improve, intransitive; pêş xistin - to improve, transitive*

5) Sometimes adding the reflexive pronoun xwe makes the verb intransitive
veşartin - to hide, transitive; xwe veşartin - to hide, intransitive

*Since it's such an important word for language learners, here are some examples:
I want to improve my Kurdish. - Ez dixwazim kurdiya xwe pêş bixim.
My Kurdish is improving day by day. - Roj bi roj kurdiya min pêş dikeve.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-02, 12:43

Exercise 1 on p.82
1. mîhrîcana
2. hevsengiya
3. cemseran
4. zanist
5. gotûbêj
6. pêşwazî
7. dirûşma
8. hişmendiya
9. mercên
10. nirxên

Exercise 2 on p.82
1. pev çûn
2. pêk tê
3. têk çû
4. têk birin
5. lêk hatin
6. pev xistin
7. lêk dan

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-09, 11:29

voron wrote:The tale on p.80 of Hînker, I have it as a separate book with wonderful illustrations. Here are two pages from it:
https://ibb.co/1qx8NyG

I am not at the computer right now, I'll upload all the pages tomorrow.

And, a few days overdue, here is the whole book!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-11, 7:18

Thanks for sharing all of these, and sorry I couldn't post earlier here! Here's (my attempt at) the exercise (#1) on p. 81:

1. Dê konferans di 28-29'ê rêbendanê li Parlamentoya Ewropayê pêk were.
2. Konferansa îsal dê ji bo bîranîna Harold Pinter li dar bikeve.
3. Beşdar dê di konferansê de gelek mijarên têkildarî pirsgirêka kurd nîqaş bikin.
4. Îsal dê konferans bi pêşengiya kesên mîna Noam Chomsky û Yaşar Kemal pêk were.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-16, 9:58

vijayjohn wrote:1. Dê konferans di 28-29'ê rêbendanê li Parlamentoya Ewropayê pêk were.
2. Konferansa îsal dê ji bo bîranîna Harold Pinter li dar bikeve.
3. Beşdar dê di konferansê de gelek mijarên têkildarî pirsgirêka kurd nîqaş bikin.
4. Îsal dê konferans bi pêşengiya kesên mîna Noam Chomsky û Yaşar Kemal pêk were.

Looks correct to me!

I was surprised that "the conference will be carried out under the leadership of such persons as Noam Chomsky and Yaşar Kemal".
Ok Yaşar Kemal was (partly?) Kurdish (he deceased lately), but what does Noam Chomsky have to do with Kurds?

Exercise 2 on p.84
binivîsin, bibînin, bikin, bibe, bibin, bîne, bibînin

Part C, Exercise 1 on p.84
1. neyêm
2. bikin
3. bidin
4. biçim
5. bikirim
6. derketî
7. binivîsin
8. werim

Part C, Exercise 2 on p.84
1. e
2. a
3. b
4. d
5. c

Part C, Exercise 3 on p.84
1. tu yê dereng biminî.
2. gelek mirov ê bimirin.
3. em ê zû qedinin.
4. ez ê nikarîbim malbata xwe biaborinim.
5. ez ê xelatekê bibim te
6. pir bixebitî
7. li ser dinyayê bigerî
8. her roj bixebite
9. çop nevêjin ser sokakê.
10. pêşîne bilêt bistînin.

Exercise 4 on p.85
1. Ew dikin biçin sinemayê.
2. Ew dike xwarin bixwe.
3. Ew dike taksi siwar bibe.
4. Baran dike bibare.
5. Ew dikin bizewicin.

This completes Unit 4 and thus a half of the book! Congratulations Vijay! Time for a dance govend!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBqiHMdUmbs

Imagine you and I to be the first two persons at the head of the dance chain :)

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-12-16, 11:15

Chomsky has spoken out on the situation of the Kurds in Iraq and Turkey for decades. He's an anarchocommunist who supports the YPG. He's of course not a Kurdish leader or anything but he's a world-famous leftist intellectual so having him as one of the organisers could bring prestige to the event.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-16, 11:55

Saim wrote:Chomsky has spoken out on the situation of the Kurds in Iraq and Turkey for decades. He's an anarchocommunist who supports the YPG. He's of course not a Kurdish leader or anything but he's a world-famous leftist intellectual so having him as one of the organisers could bring prestige to the event.

Thanks Saim! And it's nice to know that someone else peeks at our study group!

The text in the book where Chomsky was mentioned was about "Konferansa Kurd a Navneteweyî ya 5'emîn" - The 5th International Kurdish Conference.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-12-16, 12:30

voron wrote:And it's nice to know that someone else peeks at our study group!


I'm always here. :wink: It's a shame I don't have the time or energy to join you here or in the Arabic group but reading your posts motivates me to not abandon my own slow, chaotic studies of Islamicate languages and Hebrew.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24510
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-17, 17:31

Wait, you mean you can't even join me in the Arabic group? With the Syrian book? Awww :doggy:

Then again, I should talk. I'm the one who księżycowy is still waiting on for Polish (and he or other people are also waiting on for Hebrew, Sumerian, and Old English), so... :lol: (And I'm still waiting to translate a text from Mandarin into Tamil! And for someone to help me decipher a Tajik song, shameless plug I know).
voron wrote:This completes Unit 4 and thus a half of the book! Congratulations Vijay!


Spas! :D Congratulations to you, too, especially since you're the one who did most of the work!
Time for a dance govend!

Imagine you and I to be the first two persons at the head of the dance chain :)


LOL I can't even dance! :lol:

So I'm starting off the second half of the book with exercise #2!

1. Sersal di êvara 31'ê berfanbarê de tê pîrozkirin.
2. Di sersalê de bi piranî goştê elokan tê xwarin.
3. Zarok digihêjin hev, yekî dikin bûk, yekî jî dikin zava, li malan tevan digerin û tiştên digirin. :?:

What does digihêjin mean, btw? Is it the same as digihîjin?

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-17, 18:49

Speaking of other people who read this, for some odd reason I usually do too. :P

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2908
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-18, 23:52

I also check this forum every now and again. Might as well take this occasion to point something out:

voron wrote:(he deceased lately)

For whatever reason, decease is not used as a verb anymore in English (I think it was in older times). It's only used as an adjective (Yaşar Kemal is deceased) or a noun (the deceased left behind a considerable inheritance). In your sentence you'd have to say "he passed away/died recently" (lately tends to connote an ongoing action, so it wouldn't be used with a one-time event like someone dying).
Currently away from Unilang.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4862
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-12-19, 0:16

Ksiezy, Eskandar: thanks guys for your attention to our group!

And thanks for your correction, Eskandar! We do say "lately deceased" though (as an adjective), right?


Return to “Kurdish (Kurdî/کوردی)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest