Kurmanji Study Group

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-20, 22:46

voron wrote:Wow Vijay you're on fire!

Well, it helps that so many of the other study groups are kind of dead. :P
We are supposed to choose synonyms from the following text (di nivîsa jêrîn de) in this exercise -- and it seems like you picked them from elsewhere. :hmm:

Yeah, because I'm crazy enough to try doing something like that at five in the morning sometimes before going to sleep! :silly: I had a feeling I was going about it wrong and was supposed to actually read the text first... :lol:
I really like your song choice! How did you come across those songs?

Thanks! I'm pretty sure I just looked up Qedrîcan on YouTube since you'd suggested it before, and these songs basically came up as recommendations from YouTube. :P
This song is an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZydGkpSrWTA

If I understand well, this song says that a mîr went to a battle on his horse, was wounded and died, and his men were forced to flee (because their lands were plundered?), so they are crying over their mîr's death.

Thanks again! I'm going to listen to it while trying to read the second passage and do the next exercise. :) I guess these kinds of songs are a bit like songs glorifying historical (or current) leaders in other cultures.

Anyway, here's (my attempt at) exercise #2, section B:

(1. çewt) 2. çewt 3. çewt 4. rast 5. rast 6. rast

Another song I listened to, recommended by YouTube from the other song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp1YALrwedA

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby Antea » 2018-08-20, 23:14

I don’t understand what they’re saying, but I like this song a lot :yep:

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-21, 6:51

"Asmin" by Erol Berxwedan? The one I posted in my last post? :)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby Antea » 2018-08-21, 8:47

vijayjohn wrote:"Asmin" by Erol Berxwedan? The one I posted in my last post? :)


Yeah :D

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-21, 8:56

Vijay, while I am on vacation, you can translate this song for Antea using the Kurdish text and Turkish translation here:
http://sarkisozleri.kurtcebilgi.com/e/e ... dan/asmin/

:)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-26, 10:18

Okay, I tried to translate it, and this is what I got. :P

Just come here, sweetheart!
Let me tell you my pain!
When you come for me, beloved,
Say that you killed it! (2)

Say that situation was gone!
Neither day nor night remained.
Every day was in the desert and the mountains.
Neither dreams nor sleep remained. (2)

Just come, Asmin, come!
My heart was worried about the one I love.
If they (people?) gave me a thousand gold coins,
I wouldn't give them one blond hair of yours. (2)
(Just come...)

I'm dying for you, sweetheart!
What can I do? It isn't going away from my mind. (I'm dying...)
Even if more than a hundred years passed,
I'd still take you for myself. (2)

Say that situation was gone!
Neither day nor night remained.
Every day was in the desert and the mountains.
Neither dreams nor sleep remained. (2)

Just come, Asmin, come!
My heart was worried about the one I love.
If they gave me a thousand gold coins,
I wouldn't give them one blond hair of yours. (2)
(Just come...) x3

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-26, 18:33

Wonderful translation, Vijay! Just a small note:
vijayjohn wrote:Say that situation was gone!

Hali kalmamak, or in Kurdish halê wî neman (nemabû is past perfect, from the past nema + bû) is actually this:
http://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/hali%20kalmamak

A few fun facts:
'Man' means 'to stay' and it is cognate with the Latin 'manere' and English 'remain'.

Nema ('it didn't remain') is often used to say that something is missing (eg. goşt nema - there is no meat left), and it amusingly resembles the Serbian word 'nema' which means 'there is not' which is kind of the same (although the two are obviously not related).

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-26, 19:17

Spas, voron! So would that mean that line actually means 'say she didn't faint'? Or maybe 'say she didn't feel weaker'?

Of course, man has a cognate in Persian, too: ماندن, so this is what that word in Kurmanji reminds me of. :)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-26, 20:17

Ser çava!

vijayjohn wrote:So would that mean that line actually means 'say she didn't faint'? Or maybe 'say she didn't feel weaker'?

Not really. Firstly, the line after Bêje! (Say!) conveys what she is supposed to say about him (that is, he will tell his pain to her, and she will tell it to other people). We know it from the masculine pronoun wî (his, him).

Secondly: halê wî nemabû - it literally means something like 'his shape didn't remain', i.e. he is worn out, exhausted. You shouldn't have negated it in the translation.

The line actually means: Say that he is worn out, fatigued.

Yeah the plot is a bit contrived: when his beloved comes, he complains to her about his love pain, and then tell her to tell it to other people?! Maybe she's supposed to tell it to her parents who don't want her to marry this guy or something.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-27, 23:19

Maybe he's so much in love with her that only she could understand it, so he needs her help to express it to anyone else :silly:

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-30, 13:26

vijayjohn wrote:Maybe he's so much in love with her that only she could understand it, so he needs her help to express it to anyone else :silly:

Could be this, too :)

While the summer is not yet over, here's some disco music in Kurmanji.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxMo1_-Vvfw

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby Antea » 2018-08-30, 14:15

That was awesome, and also the song translation Vijay and Voron :D

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-02, 19:59

My answers to Exercise 3 on p.31.

1. Mem û Zîn berhema Ehmedê Xanî ye.
2. Helbesta bi navê "Dil ji min bir" Melayê Cizirî nivisandiye.
3. Cegerxwîn helbestvanekî kurd e.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-02, 21:02

You beat me to it! :mrgreen:
Antea wrote:That was awesome

I agree, I enjoyed that song, too. :)

I tried to sort of read the reading passage while listening to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkTD0_TrjwA
Then just started listening to this after I started on the next exercise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iBVirYNf5A
Then looked in the comments and found the (more or less) full poem:
► Show Spoiler

Listened to both songs in order again and tried to follow along while continuing to try to write out the right verb forms, paused and thought "well, now what?" then "I know! More songs by Şivan Perwer!" and listened to this while going on with the exercise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mLDdyQvBM
Then found the lyrics in the comments again, tried to sort of follow along, repeated this process, and started listening to this, all while still going on with the exercise! :P (I'm still listening to this song now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t_-Vi-ZaXI
diçin
dibin
dibin?
dikin
werdigirin?
dibihêre?
dijîn

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-03, 18:41

vijayjohn wrote:I tried to sort of read the reading passage while listening to this:

Yay, that's cool that you like listening to Kurdish songs. Songs is what got me into Kurdish in the first place.

While the lyrics of those ancient Kurdish poems like Zembîlfiroş are quite hard to follow, 'Delale' by Şivan Perwer is quite easy, and I like this song a lot. You can find the English translation on lyricstranslate:
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/delal%C3%AA-my-dear.html

diçin
dibin
dibin?
dikin
werdigirin?
dibihêre?
dijîn

I think you misunderstood the exercise. It asks to put the verbs into the past progressive tense (explained in Thackston's grammar in paragraph 18.1). This form is made by prefixing the simple past tense with di- (or putting di- after the prefix if there is one). The simple past tense is made from the infinitive root.

çûn - to go
diçin - they go
çûn - they went
diçûn - they went habitually, they were going <-- this is the form the exercise is asking for.

I suggest that you do this exercise again.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-03, 19:12

I read the texts Çîroka Zembîlfiroş and Gundên Êzidiyan. Here are my answers to Exercise 3 on page 34.

► Show Spoiler


A video with a language challenge between Kurdish and Persian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alYtE9pdZBY

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-04, 0:23

diçûn
dibûn
dibûn
dikir
werdigirtin
dibihartin
dijiyan?

I listened to this while trying to do that again. :P It's the first song from the songs thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8zPQ7I9QCs
And I also saw the video you posted, voron, spas! I managed to guess what video series it was from before I started watching it. :mrgreen: There's another video with the same Persian-speaker comparing Persian to Greek(!).

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-06, 13:43

Exercise 4 on page 35
ket
pirsî
mayî
dihatim
ket
dida
mam
nekir
dimeşiya

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-09, 21:39

Trying Exercise 3 on p. 34:

digerim?
digot
diçû, dibir
dihat
dilorand?
dikir
diketin
dikir
dişûşt
radiketin

And Exercise 5 on p. 35:

1. tobedar?
2. Gundiya?
3. Oldar?
4. ciwanî
5. evîndarên
6. Xemgînî

mostly while listening to these songs in this order, also from the songs thread (listed in the same order :P):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PfufK498sg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWizzuJNFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg11YIpKi8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB19rj0WOmE
The lyrics for the video just above this line may be found in the top comment to the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSqJhdUfSa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS1laofGHLA&feature=related
I didn't get Exercise 5. :(

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-10, 14:02

vijayjohn wrote:Trying Exercise 3 on p. 34:
digerim?
digot
diçû, dibir
dihat
dilorand?
dikir
diketin
dikir
dişûşt
radiketin

Correct answers:

digerîm/digeriyam*
digotin**
diçû, dibirim
dihatin
dilorand
dikirî***
diketin
dikirin
dişûştin
radiketin

* For verbs ending in -în, the past continuous form digerîm and the present form digerim differ in only 1 letter. That's probably why for all such verbs an alternative form exists: digeriyam, and I've noticed that the natives prefer the alternative form (maybe it depends on a dialect).

** Here the verb is plural because of ergativity. The grammatical subject of the sentence is çîrokên xweş, and it's plural.

*** Kirin is 'to make' and kirîn is 'to buy'. They are two different verbs and are conjugated differently.

Exercise 5
1. Kalikê min mirovekî oldar bû. - My granddad was a religious person.
2. Ciwaniya min li Amedê derbas bû. - My youth passed in Amed.
3. Gundî serê sibê diçin cot. - In the morning, the peasants go to the field.
4. Zembîlfiroş mirovekî tobedar bû. - Zembîlfiroş was a penitent person. (We know it from the poem).
5. Mem û Zîn du evîndarên bedbext bûn. - Mem and Zin were two unhappy lovers.
6. Xemgînî bi te nakeve, hinekî bikene. - Let sadness not overcome you, smile a bit.


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