Kurmanji Study Group

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-03, 11:53

vijayjohn wrote:Sepas, voron! :mrgreen:

Ser çavan!
In the standard language, it is spas.

Here is my text about Minsk:

Mînsk paytexta Bêlarûsê ye. Serjimara vî bajarî nêzikê du milyon kes e. Ev bajar di sedsala yazdehan de ava bûye, lê li Mînskê gelek avahiyên dirokî tune, li ber ku wexta Şerê Cîhanî yê Duyem Mînsk hat wêran kirin.

Îro Mînsk bajarekî pir şirîn û xweş e. Kolanên wê rast û fireh in. Li vir pir şênahi û park hene. Di nava Mînskê de golek heye, û keyfa Mînskiyan ji meşîna li kêleka golê re tê. Hûn ji werin Mînskê û li kolanên wê bimeşin!

In English
► Show Spoiler

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-03, 13:46

Unit 1, Part C, Exercise 3

1. Mala me di avahiyeke mezin û bilind de ye. - Our house is in a large and tall building.
2. Sosin bi min re tê dibistanê. - Sosin is coming to school with me.
3. Tu çima ji min re nabêjî? - Why aren't you telling me?
4. Sûrên Amedê bi nav û deng in. - Amed Walls are famous. ('with name and fame'). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyarbak%C4%B1r_Fortress
5. Ew debara xwe bi çandiniyê dikin. - They make a living with farming.
6. Xwişka min di dibistana seretayî de dixwîne. - My sister studies in primary school.
7. Zelal bi jor ve diçe. - Zelal is going upwards.
8. Hin mirov ji aliyê rastê ve tên. - Some people come from the right side (I'm not sure if there is any idiomatic meaning to that :hmm:)
9. Qoser bi ser bajarê Mêrdînê ve ye. - Qoser belongs to Merdin province.
bi ser ve bûn
10. Li bakurê rojavayê Qoserê, navçeya Dêrikê heye. - In the north-west of Qoser, there is Dêrik district.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-05, 12:17

Isn't "Exercise 3" really supposed to be Exercise 5? :lol:

So after that I guess is Exercise 6. I'm not sure whether I got either the answers or the translations right, but I tried anyway(!):

1. Em her şemî civînê li dar dixistin. - Every Saturday, we arrange the convention.
2. Hin kevneşopiyên me hêdî hêdî ji holê dirabûn. - Some of our traditions gradually disappear.
3. Ez carinan rojbûna hevala xwe ji bîr dikim. - I sometimes forget my friends' birthdays.
4. Dersên me di saet şeşan de bi dawî ne. - Our classes end at 6:00.
5. Zarok di cejnan de kincên xweşik li xwe dikin. - Children wear beautiful clothes for festivals.
6. Şagirtên min peyvên nû ji ber dikin. - My students memorize new words.
7. Ez ji bo nivîsên xwe kompîturê bi kar dianîm. - I use a computer for my writings.
8. Mamoste her tim waneyê bi pêkenokekê bi dawî dike. - The teacher always ends his lessons with a joke.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-08, 10:20

Small corrections
1. Em her şemî civînê li dar dixistin dixin. - Every Saturday, we arrange the convention.
2. Hin kevneşopiyên me hêdî hêdî ji holê dirabûn radibin. - Some of our traditions gradually disappear.
3. Ez carinan rojbûna hevala xwe ji bîr dikim. - I sometimes forget my friends' birthdays.
4. Dersên me di saet şeşan de bi dawî ne. - Our classes end at 6:00.
5. Zarok di cejnan de kincên xweşik li xwe dikin. - Children wear beautiful clothes for festivals.
6. Şagirtên min peyvên nû ji ber dikin. - My students memorize new words.
7. Ez ji bo nivîsên xwe kompîturê bi kar dianîm tînim. - I use a computer for my writings.
8. Mamoste her tim waneyê bi pêkenokekê bi dawî dike. - The teacher always ends his lessons with a joke.


You got conjugations of some irregular verbs wrong. Unfortunately glosbe does not consistently give present tense roots for the irregular verbs. You can check wiktionary for them:
https://ku.wiktionary.org/wiki/xistin

There is also a list of irregular verbs in Hînker, page 138.

Next exercise, Unit 1, Part C, Exercise 7
1. Belê, karekî min pê heye. - Yes, I need him for something ('I have a matter with him')
2. Ez dixwazim jê re tişteki bibêjim. - I want to tell him something.
3. Tê de sê jûr hene. - There are 3 rooms in it.
4. Belê, dikarim jê re bibim. - Yes, I can bring (it) to him.
5. Kê ev wêne bi dîwêr ve kiriye? - Min pê ve kiriye. - Who put this picture on the wall? I put (it) on it. (NB: ergativity)
6. Na, ez zêde pê nizanim. - No, I don't know much about it.

Vijay, now we're only left with section 'Spartek' (Homework) from Part 1! Let's go for it!
And I suggest that we skip Exercise 1 (crossword puzzle) -- it's too random and difficult.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-09, 11:00

Vijay, I hope you don't mind if I go on with the exercises.

Spartek, part A, Exercise 2

1. Bandora Cegerxwîn li ser min pir zêde ye. - There a lot of influence of Cegerxwîn upon me. (Cegerxwîn influenced me a lot).
Cegerxwîn has a very interesting biography -- I didn't know about him before; check it out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigerxw%C3%AEn
Poem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypFYly9FUC4

2. Stranên Mihemed Şêxo gelekî dilkêş in. - Mihemed Şêxo's songs are very captivating.

3. Dengê Meryemxanê dengekî resen e. - Meryemxan's voice is very original.

4. Ez ji berhemên Qedrîcan pir hez dikim. - I like Qedrîcan's works a lot.

5. Amadekariya berî kar pir girîng e. - Preparation before work is very important.

6. Beşdariya jinan a di siyasetê (de) pêwîst e. - Participation of women in politics is necesary.
I think 'de' is missing in the book.

7. Têkiliya wî bi mirovan re pir baş e. - His relationship with people is very good.

All artists' names in this exercise are real, check them out on youtube.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-09, 12:18

Haha I don't mind! I'm just slow. EDIT: But we did just finish Unit 1 together anyway! Yay! Great job! :mrgreen:

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-09, 21:39

Thanks Vijay. It's a bit premature though: we haven't done the last part 'Spartek' (Homework) of Unit 1 yet. ;)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-11, 10:53

Unit 1, Spartek, Part A, Exercise 4 - Match the synonyms.
1. bîrbir - biaqil
2. xwîngerm - xwînşîrîn
3. mirovperwer - humanîst
4. pirbêj - piraxêv
5. dilovan - birehm
6. henûn - mulayîm
7. zarşîrîn - zimanxweş
8. diltenik - dilzîz

I read the text about the director Hiner Selîm (Part B, Exercise 1). This was actually quite an interesting text, and from it I found out that one of Hiner Selîm' films, Dol, takes part in all 4 parts of Kurdistan (Fîlmê Dol li her çar parçeyên Kurdistanê derbas dibe), that is, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and it has actors from all 4 parts as well. Sounds like an interesting film! I wonder if they speak several different Kurdish languages there -- I definitely want to check it out.

This film doesn't seem to be on youtube but there are music tracks from it on youtube, and they sound good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbYozk ... x7&index=1

EDIT: Actually it is on youtube: http://kurtcefilimler.blogspot.com/2015 ... filmi.html
French subtitles :eww:

Vijay, if you like, you can do the exercise of putting the verbs in parentheses in this text in the present tense. I did it mentally.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-12, 15:48

voron wrote:and from it I found out that one of Hiner Selîm' films, Dol, takes part in all 4 parts of Kurdistan (Fîlmê Dol li her çar parçeyên Kurdistanê derbas dibe), that is, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and it has actors from all 4 parts as well.

I watched this film. It was a bit slow and quite predictable, but I liked it anyway -- because Kurdish!

So... the film starts in Turkey, where a Kurdish man shoots a Turkish soldier, and he has to escape, first to Iraq, then to Iran. There's no Syria in the film. In the Turkish part, they speak in Turkish and Kurmanji, in the Iraqi part, Kurmanji and Sorani, and in the Iranian part, Kurmanji only. It's shown that Kurmanji and Sorani speakers perfectly understand each other, while in practice it is not so smooth.

Also there is something fishy about the Kurmanji of 3 main characters - from Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. It sounds like they speak the standard, not real dialects.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-12, 20:04

Unit 1, Spartek, Part B, Exercise 2 - Put questions to the following answers

1. Fîlmê Hiner Selîmê bi navê DOL kengî dikeve vîzyone?
2. Fîlmên Hiner Selîm li ku beşdarî pêşbirkan dibin?
3. Hiner Selîm di filmên xwe behsa çi dike?
4. Kêfa Hiner Selîm pir ji kîjan derhêner re tê?
5. Fîlmê DOL li ku derbas dibe?

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-13, 8:08

I forgot to say I liked your text about Minsk btw! :) Also, did you skip exercise #3 from part A? I can do that one. :)

1. Zozan keçeke çavşîn e. - Zozan is a blue-eyed girl.
2. Qenco xortekî porkurîşk e. - Qenco is a curly-haired guy.
3. Ronahî keçeke çavreş e. - Ronahî is a black-eyed girl.
4. Pelîn keçeke porzer e. - Pelîn is a blond girl.
5. Qenco yekî bejnkurt e. - Qenco is a short person(?).
6. Serhat xortekî bejnbilind e. - Serhat is a tall guy.
7. Hogir kurekî qelew e. - Hogir is a fat boy.
8. Tevger xortekî bejnzirav e. - Tevger is a thin guy.

And of course I'll try to fill out the verbs in the text from Exercise 1 in part B:

1. dinasin
2. dike
3. digerîm
4. dikeve
5. dimînin
6. nediçe
7. nedinase
8. dikin
9. dikêşin
10. nedidin(?)
11. dibin
12. dibin
13. dixwazim
14. dikim
15. tê
16. tê
17. dibim
18. dikevin
19. dibî
20. dibe
21. digirin(?)
22. dixwazin

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-13, 14:22

vijayjohn wrote:1. dinasin
2. dike
3. digerîim
4. dikeve
5. dimînin
6. nediçe
7. nedinase
8. dikin
9. dikêşin - dikişînin
10. nedidin(?)
11. dibin
12. dibin
13. dixwazim
14. dikim
15. tê
16. tê
17. dibim
18. dikevin
19. dibî
20. dibe
21. digirin(?)
22. dixwazin

The negative forms are wrong. For the present tense negative, you use na- as a negation particle, and you don't use 'di-' (so it's naçe, nanase, nadin).

There is a very nice song that has negation of the verb 'to go' in its lyrics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNR7_rUE78&t=2m02s

Çi bikim, ji bîra min naçî - Whatever I do, you don't go away from my mind.

Full lyrics: https://www.secdem.net/ilahi-sozleri/ku ... zleri.html

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-17, 17:16

Exercise 3
1. dibînim, dibim
2. tê, vedibin
3. diçim, digirim
4. dibim, dişom
5. diçe ava, dibe

Skipping exercises 4 and 5

Exercise 6
1. lê 2. jê 3. tê 4. pê 5. pê 6. jê

Exercise 7
1. li 2. di ... de 3. di ... re 4. ji ... re 5. ji 6. ji ... ve 7. li ser 8. ji ... ve 9. bi 10. ji ... ve 11. bi ... re 12. bi

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-19, 11:17

Vijay, canê min, can we move on to Unit 2? :)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-19, 22:15

Oh, OK. I also did Exercise 4 though. :P (I hope these posts mean your hand is feeling better btw! :D)

Exercise 4

1. bejnbilind
2. kêfname(?)
3. rojxweş
4. diltenik
5. xwîngerm
6. mirovperwer
7. rûken

And now, exercise 2 at the beginning of Unit 2! (Since exercise 1 is more of a "discuss!" kind of thing)

1. Kurdan rêxistina bi navê "Komeley Jiyanewey Kurdistan" li bajarê Mehabadê ava kir.
2. Qazî Mihemed bû serokê Partiya Demokrat a Kurdistanê.
3. Qazî Mihemed di 22'yê Rêbendana sala 1946'an de Komara Kurdistanê îlan kir.
4. Komara Kurdistanê salekê dom kir.
5. Rojnamê û kovarên mîna "Kurdistan," "Nîştîman," "Hawarî Nîştîman" û "Helale" di vê demê de derketin.
6. Rewşenbîrên mîna Hesen Qizilcî, Hêmin û Hejar di karên komarê de peywir girtin.
7. Komara Kurdistanê di 31'ê Adara 1946'an de hilweşiya.

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-19, 22:53

I'm going to be greedy and do exercise #3, too (while listening to "Bese Dinale Welat" by Naif Haco and "Dilbera Min" by Rojen Barnas)! :silly:

(1. e)
2. a
3. b
4. c
5. m
6. d
7. f
8. j
9. g
10. k
11. h
12. i

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-20, 8:44

vijayjohn wrote: (I hope these posts mean your hand is feeling better btw! :D)

Thanks, not really -- I just type everything with my left hand. :P

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-20, 10:04

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote: (I hope these posts mean your hand is feeling better btw! :D)

Thanks, not really -- I just type everything with my left hand. :P

Oh! :( Well...I know I already said this, but I hope your hand gets better soon!

Here's my attempt at the next exercise with the synonyms:

şair - helbestvan (poet)
heval - dost (friend)
emir - dewran? (life?)
navdar - binbar (famous)
cendek - cenaze (corpse)
beg - efendî? (sir)
rehm - bereket (blessing)
zîrek - aqilmend (clever, smart?)
eser - berhem? (work (of art)?)
bîrbir - zekî (aware?)

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-20, 13:11

Wow Vijay you're on fire!
My flight is at 23:00 tonight so I have time to catch up.

I've read both texts, Avabûna Komara Kurdistanê and Melayê Bateyî - they were quite interesting.

vijayjohn wrote:Exercise 4

2. kêfname(?)
3. rojxweş

It should be kêfxweş - happy, and rojname - a newspaper.

Your answers to Exercise 2 from Unit 2 all look correct to me!

şair - helbestvan (poet)
heval - dost (friend)
emir - dewran? (life?)
navdar - binbar (famous)
cendek - cenaze (corpse)
beg - efendî? (sir)
rehm - bereket (blessing)
zîrek - aqilmend (clever, smart?)
eser - berhem? (work (of art)?)
bîrbir - zekî (aware?)

We are supposed to choose synonyms from the following text (di nivîsa jêrîn de) in this exercise -- and it seems like you picked them from elsewhere. :hmm:

Here are my answers:
şair - hebestvan
heval - destebirak
emir - temen
navdar - bi nav û deng
cendek - term
beg - mîr
rehm - dilovanî
zîrek - şaheza
eser - berhem
bîrbir - zana

I really like your song choice! How did you come across those songs?

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Re: Kurmanji Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-20, 13:40

vijayjohn wrote:beg - efendî? (sir)

Beg is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bey

is a Turkish title for chieftain, traditionally applied to the leaders or rulers of various sized areas in the Ottoman Empire

I don't know much about it but I see beg or mîr as an equivalent of a lord in medieval Europe. A beg would possess land and would rent it to peasants in exchange of labor. He would also equip and command an army to defend his lands from attacks of neighboring lords. This feudal system lasted among Kurds well into the 19th (or perhaps even 20th?) century, and was a source of armed conflicts between Kurdish lords and the Ottoman Empire who tried to subdue them.

(I just realized how little I know about the relationships between mîr and his men - I should read up on it.)

It's interesting how in Kurdish folklore mîrs are mentioned with respect and reverence. I assume they ruled well.
This song is an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZydGkpSrWTA

If I understand well, this song says that a mîr went to a battle on his horse, was wounded and died, and his men were forced to flee (because their lands were plundered?), so they are crying over their mîr's death.


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