Urdu Study Group

Moderator: vijayjohn

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-14, 22:41

Welcome back, Saim bhai! :D

عقیل عباس جعفری کے مطابق 1993 میں خلیق انجم نے جگن ناتھ آزاد کی حیات اور ادبی خدمات کے بارے میں ایک کتاب لکھی جس میں انہوں نے یہ دعویٰ کیا کے پاکستان کے ذمہ داروں نے جگن ناتھ آزاد سے ترانۂ پاکستان لکھوایا جو اگست کی رات کو پاکستان کے قیام کے اعلان کے فوراً بعد ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور سے نشر ہوا۔
According to Aqeel Abbas Jafri, in 1993, Khaliq Anjum wrote a book about Jagan Nath Azad's life and literary services in which he made the claim that the authorities had Jagan Nath Azad write the anthem of Pakistan, which was broadcast from Radio Pakistan Lahore immediately after the declaration of the insurrection of Pakistan. :?:

Just a few little corrections on some of the proper nouns that were mentioned earlier in this article, and a suggestion on one part of this article:
Saim wrote:Lo Puri

Luv Puri (they wrote it in Roman letters in parentheses earlier in the article :))
Baniya Suroor

Beena Sarwar
having been made the basis of the article?

I think maybe something like "having laid the foundation of this very subject"?
Roznamah Dan

The newspaper Dawn
Jang Naath

Jagan Nath :)

بنیاد - foundation
ادبی - literary
خدمات - services (plural of خدمت)
ذمہ دار - authority?
قیام (first vowel is i) - insurrection?
اعلان - declaration

Also, I found a reference to the subject of this article in the WIkipedia article on Jagan Nath Azad, as well as a recording of the anthem that he apparently composed along with a montage of pictures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEHisQ1TfM
(See video description for lyrics in Urdu; note that the second verse isn't included in the recording)

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-10-15, 15:52

Thanks for your notes. :)

اس میں جو اضافہ جیو ٹیلی ویژن نے کیا اس کی تفصیل بھی کتاب میں موجود ہے۔


In this the detail added by Geo Television is also found in the book. (??)

لیکن عقیل عباس جعفری نے جو دستاویزی ثبوت اور حقائق جمع کیے ہیں ان کے مطابق ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور اور پشاور کی لاگ بُکس کے محفوظ ریکارڈ سے جگن ناتھ آزاد کے اس دعوے کی تصدیق نہیں ہوتی کہ ان کا ترانہ نشر ہوا تھا۔


But according to the documentary evidence and facts brought together by Aqeel Abbas Jafri from Radio Pakistan Lahore and secure records in Peshawar's log books, Jagan Nath Azad's claim that his anthem was broadcast is not corroborated.

vijayjohn wrote:Welcome back, Saim bhai! :D

عقیل عباس جعفری کے مطابق 1993 میں خلیق انجم نے جگن ناتھ آزاد کی حیات اور ادبی خدمات کے بارے میں ایک کتاب لکھی جس میں انہوں نے یہ دعویٰ کیا کے پاکستان کے ذمہ داروں نے جگن ناتھ آزاد سے ترانۂ پاکستان لکھوایا جو اگست کی رات کو پاکستان کے قیام کے اعلان کے فوراً بعد ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور سے نشر ہوا۔
According to Aqeel Abbas Jafri, in 1993, Khaliq Anjum wrote a book about Jagan Nath Azad's life and literary services in which he made the claim that the authorities had Jagan Nath Azad write the anthem of Pakistan, which was broadcast from Radio Pakistan Lahore immediately after the declaration of the insurrection establishment of Pakistan. :?:


قیام comes from the Arabic قِيَام, which is itself the masdar of قَامَ (to stand up, rise up, exist), cognate to Hebrew לקום (lakum). Urdu قائم (stable, constant; it's quite common so it's good to know if you haven't learnt it already) comes form the active participle of قَامَ.

A more literal translation would perhaps be the 'rising up' or 'emergence' of Pakistan, but I think in idiomatic English we would sooner talking about the 'establishment' of an independent state. Check out the use of the word قیام in this Urdu Wikipedia article:

پاکستان میں 1947ء

14 اگست - پاکستان کا قیام عمل میں آیا۔

"August 14 [1947] - the establishment [lit. 'rising up/existence'] of Pakistan came into effect [lit. 'action']"

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-17, 6:18

Thanks for your help, too! :D I didn't know any of those words.

اب ریڈیو پاکستان کراچی رہ جاتا ہے۔ کراچی کو نئے ملک کا دارالحکومت قرار دیا گیا تھا۔ لیکن عقیل عباس جعفری کا کہنا ہے کہ ریڈیو پاکستان کراچی پاکستان بننے کے ایک سال بعد یعنی 14 اگست 1948 کو وجود میں آیا۔ لہٰذا کراچی سے قیام پاکستان کی نشریات اور ترانہ نشر ہونے کا سوال ہی پیدا نہیں ہوتا۔
Now Radio Pakistan Karachi remains. The decision had been made for Karachi to be the capital of the new nation, but Aqeel Abbas Jafri states that Radio Pakistan Karachi came into being one year after the making of Pakistan, i.e. on August 14, 1948. Therefore, there is no question of the broadcasts of the establishment of Pakistan and the anthem being broadcast from Karachi.
Saim wrote:
اس میں جو اضافہ جیو ٹیلی ویژن نے کیا اس کی تفصیل بھی کتاب میں موجود ہے۔


In this the detail added by Geo Television is also found in the book. (??)

Apparently, اس میں can also mean 'in the meantime' or 'meanwhile', so maybe it means 'the detail added by Geo Television in the meantime is...'?
لیکن عقیل عباس جعفری نے جو دستاویزی ثبوت اور حقائق جمع کیے ہیں ان کے مطابق ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور اور پشاور کی لاگ بُکس کے محفوظ ریکارڈ سے جگن ناتھ آزاد کے اس دعوے کی تصدیق نہیں ہوتی کہ ان کا ترانہ نشر ہوا تھا۔


But according to the documentary evidence and facts brought together by Aqeel Abbas Jafri from Radio Pakistan Lahore and secure records in Peshawar's log books, Jagan Nath Azad's claim that his anthem was broadcast is not corroborated.

I think maybe it means "But according to the documentary evidence and facts brought together by Aqeel Abbas Jafri, Jagan Nath Azad's claim that his anthem was broadcast isn't corroborated by the secure records of the log books of Radio Pakistan Lahore and (Radio Pakistan) Peshawar."

اس میں - meanwhile, in the meantime
اضافہ - addition
ثبوت - proof (forgot to list this before!)
حقیقت, pl. حقائق - fact
محفوظ - secure, preserved
دارالحکومت - capital (easier to figure out/guess from reading than to remember!)
لہٰذا lihāza - makes perfect sense when you realize this is just Arabic لهذا :P
نشریّہ (pl. نشریات)- broadcast (noun)

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-10-18, 8:05

جگن ناتھ آزاد اور قومی ترانے کے حوالے سے یہ وہ پہلو ہیں جنہیں ملحوظ نہیں رکھا گیا۔ لیکن عقیل عباس جعفری کی کتاب کے اور بھی پہلو ہیں اس سے وہ تمام ریکارڈ سامنے آ گیا ہے جو پہلے قومی ترانے کے لکھے جانے اور اس کی موسیقی ترتیب دیے جانے سے تعلق رکھتا ہے۔


Regarding Jagan Nath Azad and the national anthem (this?) those aspects that weren't considered. Aqeel Abbas Jafari's book has other aspects, in which he comes across several records which are connected to the writing and composition of the national anthem.

پہلو aspect
ملحوظ رکھنا to bear in mind, consider (ملحوظ considered, contemplated; Arabic لَاحَظَ يُلَاحِظُ‎‎ to notice)
ترتیب composition, arrangement (Arabic رَتَّبَ يُرَتِّبُ‎‎ to sort, order)

جگن ناتھ آزاد نے لو پوری کو دیے جانے والے انٹرویو میں اور کہیں بھی اور ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور کے اس اہلکار کا نام نہیں بتایا جس نے انہیں یہ کہا پاکستان کی اہم ترین شخصیت ان سے پاکستان کا پہلا قومی ترانہ لکھوانا چاہتی ہے۔ اور قائد اعظم کے پیپرز میں بھی کہیں یہ بات اب تک سامنے نہیں آئی کہ انہوں نے کوئی قومی ترانہ لکھوایا تھا۔


اہل کار official, clerk

پاکستان کا قومی ترانہ کیسے لکھا گیا، اس بارے میں کیا کیا تجاویز آئیں اور کس کس نے دیں، یہ ساری روداد نہ صرف انتہائی دلچسپ ہے بلکہ ایسے پہلوؤں کو بھی اجاگر کرتی ہے جو پاکستان کے ابتدائی دنوں میں قیادت اور بیوروکریسی کے کام کرنے کے انداز کے بارے میں بہت کچھ بتاتی ہے اس لیے اس عہد سے دلچسپی رکھنے والوں کو تو اس کتاب کا مطالعہ ضرور کرنا چاہیے۔


How was Pakistan's national anthem written, what were the proposals about this and who gave them: this whole account is not only extremely interesting but it also highlights those aspects that say a lot about the way Pakistan's leadership and bureaucracy acted in its early days, so those who are interested in this time period should definitely read it.

تجویز suggestion, proposal (plural: تجاویز)
روداد account, narration
اُجاگر کرنا to highlight
ابتدائی beginning, starting
عہد here: time, era (also oath, vow)
Last edited by Saim on 2018-10-21, 16:03, edited 1 time in total.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-21, 6:12

You just did the last three paragraphs of the article in one shot? Overachiever! :P But yay! :D

You didn't translate the middle one, though! (Or was that on purpose? In which case I guess that makes you an early bird rather than an overachiever :silly:). So I guess I'll do it:
جگن ناتھ آزاد نے لو پوری کو دیے جانے والے انٹرویو میں اور کہیں بھی اور ریڈیو پاکستان لاہور کے اس اہلکار کا نام نہیں بتایا جس نے انہیں یہ کہا پاکستان کی اہم ترین شخصیت ان سے پاکستان کا پہلا قومی ترانہ لکھوانا چاہتی ہے۔ اور قائد اعظم کے پیپرز میں بھی کہیں یہ بات اب تک سامنے نہیں آئی کہ انہوں نے کوئی قومی ترانہ لکھوایا تھا۔

Jagan Nath Azad didn't name the clerk from Radio Pakistan Lahore who told him that the most important personality in Pakistan wanted to have him write the first national anthem of Pakistan, either in the interview he would give Luv Puri or anywhere else. And it didn't come out anywhere until now, even in the Great Leader's papers, that he had him write any national anthem.
Saim wrote:
جگن ناتھ آزاد اور قومی ترانے کے حوالے سے یہ وہ پہلو ہیں جنہیں ملحوظ نہیں رکھا گیا۔

Regarding Jagan Nath Azad and the national anthem (this?) those aspects that weren't considered.

I guess this is more or less what you meant anyway, but I think I'd translate this as "these are the aspects that weren't considered regarding Jagan Nath Azad and the national anthem." :)
لیکن عقیل عباس جعفری کی کتاب کے اور بھی پہلو ہیں اس سے وہ تمام ریکارڈ سامنے آ گیا ہے جو پہلے قومی ترانے کے لکھے جانے اور اس کی موسیقی ترتیب دیے جانے سے تعلق رکھتا ہے۔

Aqeel Abbas Jafari's book has other aspects, in which he comes across several records which are connected to the writing and composition of the national anthem.

My understanding of this sentence is a bit different: "But Aqeel Abbas Jafri's book has other aspects (to it as well); the complete records that connect the writing of the first national anthem and the composition of its music have come out from it [i.e. from the book; the book has released said records]."
ابتدائی beginning, starting

This is the only word from your vocab list this time that I did already know, from the very last dialogue in TY Urdu. It begins like this:

جان: شریف صاحب۔ آپ مجھے اپنے بارے میں اور اپنی زندگی کے بارے میں کچھ بتائے۔ کیا آپ دہلی کے رہنے والے ہیں؟
شریف احمد: جی نہیں۔ میں مرادآباد میں پیدا ہوا تھا۔ وہ جگہ عموماً اردو کی جائے پیدائش کہلاتی ہے۔ جب میں سب سے پہلے دہلی آیا تھا۔ تو میں ایک کالج میں داخل ہوا اور وہاں ابتدائی تعلم حاصل کی۔

And here's all the other new vocab I learned from these three paragraphs that you didn't already list! :)
حوالہ - transfer, commitment, change, reference, allusion, custody (among other things)
تعلق - connected
شخصیت - personality
قائد - leader
اعظم - greatest
قائد اعظم - Great Leader (= Jinnah)
قیادت - leadership
مطالعہ - reading

So now what do we do? :) In addition to the options we've already talked about in this thread before, i.e. (rap?) songs, Facebook posts, online articles, Jasoosi Digest, and ghazals, I'd like to also point out that LangMedia and GLOSS exist, at least, and suggest maybe using some part of either (or both) of those if you're interested.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-10-21, 8:30

Yeah I was trying to do the second paragraph but I ended up doing my head in so I stopped. :lol:

For the next text, you pick something and I'll join you. :)

vijayjohn wrote:even in the Great Leader's papers


Just a small cultural note: Pakistani's don't tend to translate this expression when speaking English. They just call him qaid-e-azm, or alternatively Jinnah. In fact, I've even seen him referred to as the quaid in English texts.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-21, 17:31

The quaid sounds like it could be a nickname for a character from an American action movie or something, at least if it was pronounced [ðə kʰwejd̚]. :lol:

All right, in that case, let's do "Azad Jammu and Kashmir" from CultureTalk Kashmir! :) I've already listened to this before and probably even tried to identify the words I didn't know but never wrote them down. This will also give us a chance to actually listen to some natural speech in Urdu, too! Try not to be thrown off too much by all the misspellings in the transcript lol

I'd also like to point out that the first time this guy uses the word تعلق, it reminds me of the usage of taluk throughout India (including in Indian English) to mean something pretty close to a district.

عرصہ (one of those words that's misspelled in the transcript) - a while
نقصان - detriment, damage
مزید (first vowel is a) - increase
قابلِ قبول - agreeable
فريق - party (legal/political-ish sense)
استفادہ - advantage
پائدار - lasting (lit. 'having feet')
امن - peace
سلامتی - safety

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-16, 17:21

Wanna do a LangMedia text?

Chatting with a Women from Mansehra
http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/cultu ... -Education
http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/fileu ... n_a6e2.pdf

مونگ پھلی peanut
آلو بخارا peach
ڈھائی two and a half
کاش I wish, if only

اگر میرے تک ہو if it were up to me [ possible calque? Google only gives this LangMedia result ]
ڈھائی گھنٹے کا راستہ ہے two and a half hours away [because of her Pothohari accent the first vowel is realised as æ ]
ایڈمیشن لینا to be admitted [ =داخلہ لینا, but watch out for gender: m. داخلہ and f. ایڈمیشن ]
مجھے بہت شوق تھا کہ I really wanted [ +subjunctive ]

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-17, 6:50

Saim wrote:Wanna do a LangMedia text?

Sure!
مونگ پھلی peanut
آلو بخارا peach

آلو بخارا means 'plum', not 'peach'. آڑو is peach. :) But I get the words 'peach', 'plum', and 'pear' mixed up pretty easily in some languages, especially English. :P

It's funny that you listed these two because I just realized I sort of know each of them. :D آلو in Persian means only 'plum' (this is where Urdu got it from; compare krompir in Serbian < Bavarian grumper, krumbeer, krumpir, attested in Standard German as Grundbirne 'ground pear'); 'potato' in Persian is سیب زمینی. I didn't know of this way of distinguishing plums from potatoes in Urdu, though.

I've never seen مونگ پھلی in Urdu, but after thinking I had never seen this word before, I suddenly remembered that there's a Gujarati dish whose name I've seen Romanized as something like moongphuli nu shaak a hundred times before!
کاش I wish, if only

This was in the ghazal we did at the beginning of this thread. :D
اگر میرے تک ہو if it were up to me [ possible calque? Google only gives this LangMedia result ]
ڈھائی گھنٹے کا راستہ ہے two and a half hours away [because of her Pothohari accent the first vowel is realised as æ ]
ایڈمیشن لینا to be admitted [ =داخلہ لینا, but watch out for gender: m. داخلہ and f. ایڈمیشن ]
مجھے بہت شوق تھا کہ I really wanted [ +subjunctive ]

Wow, these are really interesting notes! I think I've seen مجھے بہت شوق تھا کہ before. Either that or I'm just used to seeing شوق being used in all kinds of ways in Urdu by now. :P

آڑو peach :P (I've definitely seen this word before, but you know... :lol:)
رسالہ magazine
ایک دم آ کر suddenly
برابر equivalent (I learned this word in the Persian Study Group and forgot it :roll:)
تیز cocky (I knew تیز could mean a lot of things but not this! I thought she meant they thought girls like that were 'fast').

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-18, 10:52

vijayjohn wrote:آلو بخارا means 'plum', not 'peach'. آڑو is peach. :) But I get the words 'peach', 'plum', and 'pear' mixed up pretty easily in some languages, especially English. :P


Oops, yeah, brainfart. I was thinking about whether to list آڑو even though it was already in my passive vocabulary as being a kind of fruit and decided against it, but then ended up writing peach in the wrong place.

'potato' in Persian is سیب زمینی


Pomme de terre ! :shock:

Wow, these are really interesting notes!


By the way I was talking about the first vowel in the word گھنٹا of course, not the first vowel in the sentence. Pahari-Pothohari speakers also do this with گھر so it may be a regular sound change in their language after گھ (maybe it's a broader change but I have too few examples to come to any conclusion).

ایک دم آ کر suddenly


I think it's just ایک دم; I'm not aware of ایک دم آ کر being a set phrase. I may be wrong, but I vaguely remember that conjuctive forms can refer back to dative experiencers in Urdu, so the reference of آ کر would be مجھے احصاص ہوا.

EDIT: Yep.

http://web.mit.edu/rbhatt/www/24.956/dative.pdf

Image

تیز cocky (I knew تیز could mean a lot of things but not this! I thought she meant they thought girls like that were 'fast').


Fast cars and fast women!

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-18, 18:40

Saim wrote:
'potato' in Persian is سیب زمینی


Pomme de terre ! :shock:

Yeah, IIRC this is a pretty common metaphor (aardappel in Dutch, Erdapfel for some German-speakers, תפוח אדמה in Hebrew...plus I guess calling it some kind of pear or plum is pretty similar, too).
By the way I was talking about the first vowel in the word گھنٹا of course, not the first vowel in the sentence. Pahari-Pothohari speakers also do this with گھر so it may be a regular sound change in their language after گھ (maybe it's a broader change but I have too few examples to come to any conclusion).

Oh OK. I thought you meant the first vowel in the sentence because I thought that sounded pretty fronted, too. :silly:
I think it's just ایک دم

Oh OK, thanks for this! I'm pretty familiar with ایک دم.

What should we do next? Should we try GLOSS, a ghazal, another kind of song, a Facebook post, another LangMedia video, another news article, something from Jasoosi Digest, or something else? (Dang, we have so many options! :P).

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-21, 7:45

I'm up for anything. Maybe GLOSS?

EDIT: How about this?

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-22, 17:45

title
اِنفرادیت uniqueness, individuality
بالیدگی growth, development
برقرار continuing as before, firm

1 instructions
سُرخی newspaper headline
متن text (pl. مُتُون)
دی گنی - (???)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-23, 5:24

Sure, we can do that! :) (Late? What do you mean, late?! No, I'm not late at all! :whistle:).
Saim wrote:title
اِنفرادیت uniqueness, individuality
بالیدگی growth, development
برقرار continuing as before, firm

1 instructions
سُرخی newspaper headline

Didn't know any of these
متن text (pl. مُتُون)

I know this word from Persian to mean 'lyrics', but I didn't know the plural form.
دی گنی - (???)

گئی (= गई), not *گنی

Also new to me from these directions:
فہرست fehrist - list

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5436
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-24, 13:00

1 given words

منڈی market
حِرفت profession, craft, trade
صنعت و حرفت arts and crafts
مُنفرِد unique
فن کار artist
دست کاری handcrafts

2 instructions
نظر دوڑانا to look all around
مُلاحظہ review, inspection, examination

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-26, 0:33

I already knew منڈی and didn't really notice نظر دوڑانا, but I didn't know any of the other words or these:

روایتی لباس - traditional costumes (I know لباس as clothes but not really costumes)
ملبوسات کی نمائش - fashion show
افتتاح - opening (makes sense but I'm not familiar enough with Arabic to intuitively know which form of فتح this is :P)

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2907
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-11-29, 5:21

vijayjohn wrote:افتتاح - opening (makes sense but I'm not familiar enough with Arabic to intuitively know which form of فتح this is :P)

It's a form VIII maSdar. Form VIII is often reflexive, as in this case (compare with the transitive فتح).
Currently away from Unilang.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-01, 3:32

eskandar wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:افتتاح - opening (makes sense but I'm not familiar enough with Arabic to intuitively know which form of فتح this is :P)

It's a form VIII maSdar. Form VIII is often reflexive, as in this case (compare with the transitive فتح).

Thanks! I know almost nothing about masdars (except I guess broadly what they are).

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2907
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2018-12-01, 22:28

vijayjohn wrote:Thanks! I know almost nothing about masdars (except I guess broadly what they are).

It's worth familiarizing yourself with them. Once you've internalized them, it makes Arabic so much easier - and consequently makes recognizing and correctly understanding Urdu vocabulary derived from Arabic much easier as well.
Currently away from Unilang.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24502
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-02, 4:58

I know, and I'm sure I'll have to learn them sooner or later, but I'm not sure whether that means "now." :P Most of my knowledge of Arabic comes from Mastering Arabic and Syrian Colloquial Arabic, so I'm wondering whether that's too rudimentary for starting to learn masdars. Or should I just learn them anyway? :hmm:


Return to “Hindi/Urdu (हिन्दी/اُردو)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest