Urdu Study Group

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Saim
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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-08, 6:19

(The sentences are in the order I worked on them, not necessarily in the order you posted them or sequentially as per the video).

Eskander wrote:24:00
تو فوراً خدا کو ...؟


اگر میں فائر کرنے لگوں نہ، تو فوراً خدا کو بیچ میں لاتے ہیں۔

If I start firing them, they immediately bring God into it.

Here she pronounces لاتے as "liāte", which is a fairly common colloquial variant. In Punjabi this is the standard form
-- ਲਿਆਉਣਾ (لیاؤنا, liāuṇā).

28:20
یہی بتا رہا تھا کہ ہمارے ؟ کے لئے

(?maybe a name)


I hear "LK", so maybe the initials of some company?

اگر آپ کسی ؟؟ کروا کے نوکری پکی کروا دیں


I'm pretty sure what's missing are the Anglicisms "quota" and "adjust". Here "quota" is declined as if it was kvoṭā, i.e. a normal masculine noun:

اگر آپ کسی کوٹے میں اڈجسٹ کروا کے نوکری پکی کروا دیں

"Quota" is integrated enough into the Urdu lexicon to have its own Urdu-Urdu dictionary entry (مختص یا معین حصّہ ، حصہ رسد ، جس کو کوئی فرد واحد یا کوئی جامعت ادا کرنے پر مجبور یا پانے کی مستحق ہو .). For "adjust" I couldn't find many ghits but the results I did find were almost all with "karnā".

بڑی سرد تو عورت ہے یار


I hear:

بڑی سخت عورت ہے یار۔


The next sentence he says is also really tough to get.


I think he says something like (20:48):

زیادہ خوش ہونے کی زرورت نہیں۔ علی اپنی منگیتر کے لئے چوڑیاں لینے گیا تھا۔ اس نے کہا (؟) ساتھ جاؤ جمشید، تو میں نے کہا چلو، تمہارے لئے بھی خرید لیتے۔


Thanks! They speak so fast here. I can't get the next line the girl says either.


I'm almost certain she says:

کس نے کہا آدھی رات کو چھت پر کھڑے ہو؟

Who told you to stand on my roof in the middle of the night?

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-08, 7:42

I'm having trouble editing posts, the text keeps disappearing whenever I open the window. :? I'm going to have to make another post for the rest.

Eskander wrote:At 8:25 I heard what sounded like the girl saying "میں چِلّی جاؤنگی نا" but none of the meanings for چلی seemed to make sense here. Any ideas? (Maybe I'm mishearing it?)


Isn't it just:

میں چلی جاؤں گی نا
I will leave

It sounds like a shwa to me, not a short i.

6:11 the receptionist says "... چھوپ نہیں بس تھوڑا سا " and I couldn't get the next words. Maybe ڈر رہا ہوں ?


Maybe:

چپ نہیں، بس تھوڑا سا ڈرا ہوا۔


I do hear a nasalised vowel at the end (like he's saying huāṁ).

7:35 I couldn't get the beginning of the boy's sentence. "کر رہی ہیں، میں چھوڑ دوں ___ ... "


Maybe:

کس کا انتظار کر رہی ہیں، میں چھوڑ دوں۔


It's hard to hear over the background noise, especially since he's putting on a different voice.

21:45-25:25 Jamshed is so hard to understand!


21:30-22:45
کیا ہوا ممی؟ اتنا اونچا کیوں بول رہیں؟
ہوا کیا نا؟
ارے گلاس ہے نا، ٹوٹنے والی چیز کی ٹوٹ گئی! شور کیوں اچا رہی ہے؟

اور عمران مامو جب پیسے بیچتے ہیں؟ اس وقت تو مفت (یاد؟) نہیں آپ کو؟
ارے (؟) جائیں اب زرا ان کو اتنا شوق ہے جیزیں گروانے کا، تو کوئی انہیں بھی گروایئں! کہ گھر کا خرچہ، گھر کا کرایہ، یہاں تک کہ مامو کی موٹر سائکل کے پیسے عمران مامو نے بھیجیں! اور اپنے بھڑے بھائی سے جو چیزیں آپ کو ملتی ہیں اس کا تو بڑا خیال رکھتے ہیں یہ لوگ۔ اور عمران مامو جو چیزیں دیتے؟ ہر تین ہفتے بار توٹتے پھرتے اس گھر میں پھر کچھ نہیں بولتی آپ!

مجھے پالنے کے پیسے جو خرچ کئے نا، میں چھکا دوں گا!


I'll try and figure out the rest later.

26:00-26:05 ??


یار میرے اپنے تو سارے پاکستان میں ہیں۔

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-09, 17:08

Saim bhai, you're awesome, thanks so much!

Saim wrote:Here she pronounces لاتے as "liāte", which is a fairly common colloquial variant. In Punjabi this is the standard form
-- ਲਿਆਉਣਾ (لیاؤنا, liāuṇā).

I see, thanks for explaining that. Really need to learn Punjabi one of these days, if only to strengthen my understanding of Pakistani Urdu!

I think he says something like (20:48):

زیادہ خوش ہونے کی زرورت نہیں۔ علی اپنی منگیتر کے لئے چوڑیاں لینے گیا تھا۔ اس نے کہا (؟) ساتھ جاؤ جمشید، تو میں نے کہا چلو، تمہارے لئے بھی خرید لیتے۔

Maybe میرے in the spot where you have a question mark? That's what I think I'm hearing, and it would seem to make sense.

Saim wrote:Isn't it just:

میں چلی جاؤں گی نا
I will leave

It sounds like a shwa to me, not a short i.

You're probably right. No matter how many times I listen to it, it sounds like a short 'i' to me, but I'm sure my ears are deceiving me.
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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-11, 0:23

I watched episode 3. My interest in the show is kind of waning :lol: so I decided to just watch and not worry too much about catching every single word. Just noted some interesting bits:

Notes
حکم کیجیے "what can I do for you?" (lit. "command [me]") - polite way to respond when someone asks for your help. Equivalent to Persian امر بفرمایید

association vāloN ko batāyā baghair - without telling the association folks (for me this kind of structure is easy to understand but hard to spontaneously form)

برخوردار - high-register word for son
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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-11, 7:13

Eskander wrote:Saim bhai, you're awesome, thanks so much!


No worries, I'm glad it helped!

I see, thanks for explaining that. Really need to learn Punjabi one of these days, if only to strengthen my understanding of Pakistani Urdu!


Good luck

Maybe میرے in the spot where you have a question mark? That's what I think I'm hearing, and it would seem to make sense.


Yeah, that's definitely it. I heard میں, but that of course makes no sense there. Jamshed seems to mumble lots of common words. :)

My interest in the show is kind of waning [...] for me this kind of structure is easy to understand but hard to spontaneously form


I have an idea. How about we try watching the first episode or two of lots of different series rather than trying to power through a single one? They did this over at chinese-forums.com and it seems like it could help quite a lot. None of us seem to be the type to sit and watch many shows from start to finish, and we're basically doing this as a learning exercise, and I'm not sure if any of us have the time or energy to spend several hours a day watching things in Urdu. That way we develop a broader catalogue of Urdu shows, which might make it a bit easier to jump into more intensive immersion if there's ever a compelling reason for us to do it or if we have time (personally I could only imagine myself spending 4+ or even 1-2 hours a day on Urdu listening while in Pakistan, or if I suddenly end up meeting a lot of North Indians and Pakistanis that I talk to on a daily basis and prefer Urdu over English).

I also have trouble producing pretty much any idiomatic constructions or more advanced grammar (such as conditionals) spontaneously, even though my general comprehension is quite good. Lately I've been listening to the same 5-minute excerpts from the show again and again and I think that has helped me focus more on form than on meaning in my listening. I found this sort of thing helped with acquiring tone and pitch accent so I think it could also help with picking up idiomatic Urdu, especially since there are so few resources on Urdu usage for foreigners (and dictionaries aren't so comprehensive when it comes to "combined" verbs and expressions and so on). I think it'll be easier (and less boring) for me to do that if I take excerpts from different shows and different actors rather than listening to an entire show from start to finish. I also have trouble finding comprehensible and interesting listening material, so repeated listening to things I've already watched (once I've already watched the scene I can generally understand 95%+ of what they're saying without much effort, whereas I can't understand anything else in Urdu immediately and without strain so it's hard to find the energy to listen a lot) seems to be the best I can do a the moment.

Or we can keep going through Jackson Heights if you prefer, but if your interest is waning (and if Vijay also agrees), there's no reason why can't switch to something else. It's better to increase overall exposure than to actually "finish" anything, IMO.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-04-12, 16:30

I'm even willing to do more than just episodes of Pakistani TV series. This is Urdu, after all; it's one of the most widely spoken languages in the world, and there are plenty of short videoclips on YouTube in Urdu of all kinds, including from countries nowhere near South Asia! I've had YouTube randomly recommend travel videos to me in Urdu before, for instance, for certain obscure countries like Turkmenistan IIRC. There are also lots of ads and comedy videos. I can even think of some Bollywood movie clips we could use (sometimes even with subtitles), especially from some of my favorite movies. :P

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-12, 19:44

Saim wrote:How about we try watching the first episode or two of lots of different series rather than trying to power through a single one?

Sure!

vijayjohn wrote:I'm even willing to do more than just episodes of Pakistani TV series. This is Urdu, after all; it's one of the most widely spoken languages in the world, and there are plenty of short videoclips on YouTube in Urdu of all kinds, including from countries nowhere near South Asia! I've had YouTube randomly recommend travel videos to me in Urdu before, for instance, for certain obscure countries like Turkmenistan IIRC. There are also lots of ads and comedy videos. I can even think of some Bollywood movie clips we could use (sometimes even with subtitles), especially from some of my favorite movies. :P

Yeah, I'm down for any of that! Either you or Saim should suggest what to watch next.
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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-04-13, 3:18

Okay! How about this clip from Veer-Zaara? It's one of my favorite movies ever (even though I think it was still a little overly dramatic especially in the final scene where the main characters cross the border into India). :D It's about an Indian man named Veer who falls in love with a Pakistani woman named Zaara. This scene (with subs) takes place shortly after Zaara reveals to her mother that she's in love with Veer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kELHQJLcKY

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-13, 7:43

I hear almost no new words or things that I couldn't catch, or at least none that I noticed, with one exception:

3:13

میں وعدہ کرتا ہوں ؟ نکاح قبول کرے گی۔

I promise she will willingly accept the marriage.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-04-14, 18:29

I've finally finished an attempt at a transcription:

-میرا نام مریم حیات خان ہے۔ میں زارا کی امی، پر شاید...آج سے "اپنا" کہنے کا حق کھو چکی...کیوں ک اب میری بیٹی میری نہیں رہی۔ وہ...آپ کی ہو چکی ہے۔ میں آپ سے اپنی بیٹی مانگنے آئ۔ ہمہیں ہماری بیٹی واپس دے دیجئے۔ ورنہ اس کے ابا مر جایں گے۔ وہ یہ بدنام ہی برداشت نہیں کر سکیں گے۔ وہ مر جایں گے۔ سنا ہے آپ لوگوں کی جان بچاتے۔ زارا کی جان بھی آپ نے ہی بچائی تھی۔ تو آج...اس کے ابو کی جان بچا لیجئے۔ میں آپ سے بھیک مانگتی ہوں، ان کے جان بچا لیجئے! وہ مر جین گے! مر جایں گے!

- ایک ماں بیٹے سے کبھی بھیک نہیں مانگتی۔ صرف حکم دیتی ہے۔ زارا آپ کی امانت ہے اور ہمیشہ اپنی کہہ رہے گی۔ آپ کو کہلا، میں آپ سے پوچھنے بنا آپ کی زارا میں یہاں سے لے جاؤں؟ لوگ کہتے ہیں نا، محبت اندھی ہوتی۔ ہمہیں بھی اپنی محبت میں اور کچھ دکھائی نہیں تھی۔ صرف ایک دوسرے پے دیکھتے رہے۔ نہیں دیکھا کہ کہیں کسی کا نقصان تو نیی ہمراہ ہے۔ نہیں کسی کو دکھ تو نہیں پہنچ رہا ہے کہیں...کہیں کسی کی جان تو نہیں جا رہی۔ کچھ دکھائی نہیں تھی۔ پر اب سب ساتھ لکھ رہا۔ کوئی بھی محبت کسی کی جان سے زیادہ کھیمتی (= قیمتی) تو نہیں ہو سکتی۔ نہ، فکر مت کیجئے۔ زارا کا نکاح وہیں ہوگا جہاں اس کے ابا اور امی چاہتے ہیں. اب نکاح کی تیاری کیجئے۔ زارا سے میں بات کروں گا اور...میں وعدہ کرتا ہوں زارا ہنستے ہو گئے نکاح قبول کرے گی۔

- تیرے ملک کا ہر بیٹا تیرے جیسا ہے کیا؟

- یہ تو نہیں پتہ، پر ہاں، میرے دیس کی ہر ماں آپ جیسی ضرور۔


New vocab in that scene for me:

برداشت کرنا - to bear, endure
امانت - thing or property entrusted to the care of a person; security, safety, fidelity, etc.
قیمتی - valuable (okay, kind of obvious but not so much to me when pronounced کھیمتی, especially in a Bollywood movie!)

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-14, 22:20

vijayjohn wrote:
-میرا نام مریم حیات خان ہے۔ میں زارا کی امی، پر شاید...آج اسے "اپنا" کہنے کا حق کھو چکی...کیوں کہ اب میری بیٹی میری نہیں رہی۔ وہ...آپ کی ہو چکی ہے۔ میں آپ سے اپنی بیٹی مانگنے آئ ہوں۔ ہمہیں ہماری بیٹی واپس دے دیجئے۔ ورنہ اس کے ابا مر جایں گے۔ وہ یہ بدنامی برداشت نہیں کر سکیں گے۔ وہ مر جایں گے۔ سنا ہے آپ لوگوں کی جان بچاتے۔ زارا کی جان بھی آپ نے ہی بچائی تھی۔ تو آج...اس کے ابو کی جان بچا لیجئے۔ میں آپ سے بھیک مانگتی ہوں، ان کے جان بچا لیجئے! وہ مر جین گے! مر جایں گے!

- ایک ماں بیٹے سے کبھی بھیک نہیں مانگتی۔ صرف حکم دیتی ہے۔ زارا آپ کی امانت ہے اور ہمیشہ اپنی کہہ رہے گی۔ آپ کو کیا لگا، میں آپ سے پوچھے بنا آپ کی زارا میں یہاں سے لے جاؤں؟ لوگ کہتے ہیں نا، محبت اندھی ہوتی۔ ہمہیں بھی اپنی محبت میں اور کچھ دکھائی نہیں تھی۔ صرف ایک دوسرے تو دیکھتے رہے۔ نہیں دیکھا کہ کہیں کسی کا نقصان تو نیی ہمراہ ہے۔ نہیں کسی کو دکھ تو نہیں پہنچ رہا ہے کہیں...کہیں کسی کی جان تو نہیں جا رہی۔ کچھ دکھائی نہیں تھی۔ پر اب سب صاف دیکھ رہا۔ کوئی بھی محبت کسی کی جان سے زیادہ کھیمتی (= قیمتی) تو نہیں ہو سکتی۔ نہ، فکر مت کیجئے۔ زارا کا نکاح وہیں ہوگا جہاں اس کے ابا اور امی چاہتے ہیں. اب نکاح کی تیاری کیجئے۔ زارا سے میں بات کروں گا اور...میں وعدہ کرتا ہوں زارا ہنستے ہوئے نکاح قبول کرے گی۔

- تیرے ملک کا ہر بیٹا تیرے جیسا ہے کیا؟

- یہ تو نہیں پتہ، پر ہاں، میرے دیس کی ہر ماں آپ جیسی ضرور۔


I'm not 100% sure about some of my corrections, so take them with a grain of salt. The parts I put in red I don't think are transcribed correctly but I can't quite get what exactly is said, myself.

قیمتی - valuable (okay, kind of obvious but not so much to me when pronounced کھیمتی, especially in a Bollywood movie!)

If I hadn't looked at your transcription and/or the subtitles, I wouldn't have figured that one out either. So much for shiin qaaf se durust Urdu...
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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-15, 5:01

- ایک ماں بیٹے سے کبھی بھیک نہیں مانگتی۔ صرف حکم دیتی ہے۔ زارا آپ کی امانت ہے اور ہمیشہ آپ ہی کی رہے گی۔ آپ کو کیا لگا، میں آپ سے پوچھے بنا آپ کی زارا کو یہاں سے لے جاؤں؟ لوگ کہتے ہیں نا، محبت اندھی ہوتی۔ ہمہیں بھی اپنی محبت میں اور کچھ دکھائی نہیں دیا۔ صرف ایک دوسرے تو دیکھتے رہے۔ نہیں دیکھا کہ کہیں کسی کا نقصان تو نہیں ہو رہا ہے۔ کہیں کسی کو دکھ تو نہیں پہنچ رہا ہے کہیں...کہیں کسی کی جان تو نہیں جا رہی۔ کچھ دکھائی نہیں دیا۔ پر اب سب صاف دکھ رہا۔ کوئی بھی محبت کسی کی جان سے زیادہ قیمتی تو نہیں ہو سکتی۔ نہ، فکر مت کیجئے۔ زارا کا نکاح وہیں ہوگا جہاں اس کے ابا اور امی چاہتے ہیں. اب نکاح کی تیاری کیجئے۔ زارا سے میں بات کروں گا اور...میں وعدہ کرتا ہوں زارا ہنستے ہوئے نکاح قبول کرے گی۔


By the way, I think the reason it kind of sounds like he's aspirating unaspirated consonants is because he's whispering. It's not his accent or a colloquial variant or anything.

دِکھنا - to be seen, be visible (the intransitive doublet of دیکھنا)
دِکھائی دینا - to appear, be visible (~ نظر آنا)

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-25, 20:20

Any interest in reading a short story? There are some real classics here along with glossaries. I'm going to read Anwar Sajjad's "Cinderella" there to start. Since the vocabulary is already provided, maybe we can post about structures or sentences we found difficult to understand.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-04-25, 22:36

Sure, but I thought I'd post the first part of Achhut Kanya first because I just finished trying to transcribe it! :D

Some of the lines (such as the second one) are in something other than Khari Boli, though I'm not sure what variety exactly they're in, maybe Braj Bhasha or something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBN_5I1aGK0
!اے اے، پھاٹک کھول -
Hey, open the gate!

پھاٹک ناہی کھول سکے۔ بارہ پچاس کی گاڑی آیی رہی ہے۔ -
I can't open it. The 12:50 train is on its way.

!تو ابھی تو بارہ بھی نہیں بجے -
But it isn't even twelve yet!

تو یہاں میں میرو کا قصور ہے، صاحب؟ ایک بجے سے پہلے میں ہرگز(؟) پھاٹک ناہی کھولوں گو۔ بارہ اور ایک بجے کے بیچ...یہاں بھوت -
!آؤ کرے، بھوت
Well, how is that my fault, sir? I just won't open the gate before one o'clock. Between twelve and one o'clock...there are ghosts coming here! Ghosts!

!اچھا...یہ لے -
All right...Take this!

!ہرے رام، ہرے رام، ہرے رام -
Hare Ram, hare Ram, hare Ram!

تمہارے پاس کیسے آیا؟ -
How did you get it?

آپ کی جیب سے گر گیا تھا۔ -
It had fallen out of your pocket.

(ہری بسے سکل سنسارا، (٢
Hari (Vishnu) lives in the whole world:
(جل تل میں، آکاش پون میں، (٢
In water, on land, in the sky, in the air,
(اونچ نیچ گنوان میں، دھن میں۔ (٢
In high and low houses, and in wealth(?).
(تم ہی نہ ان سے ہارا۔ (٢
You alone did not harm him(?).
(جاؤ واپس! یہاں کیا اب تمہارا پیارا نریندر بیٹھا ہے جو آیی ہو؟)
(Go back! Is your dear Narendra sitting here so you've come here?)
(ہری بسے سکل سنسارا۔ (٢
Hari (Vishnu) lives in the whole world.


"اس نے اپنی جان دی، دوسروں کی جانیں بچانے کے لئے۔" -
"She gave her life to save the lives of others."

"ہاں، "اس نے اپنی جان دی، دوسروں کی جانیں بچانے کے لئے۔ -
Yes, "she gave her life to save the lives of others."

یہ دیوی تھی۔ -
She was a goddess.

ہاں، دیوی۔ جنم سے اچھوت، لیکن کرم سے دیوی۔ اس کی جیون کتھا ایک پنی کتھا ہے جس کے سنے اور سنانے سے آتما کو شانتی ملتی -
ہے۔
Yes, a goddess - an untouchable by birth but a goddess by her actions/karma. Her life story is a pure story from which the soul finds peace upon hearing and telling it.

!شانتی...تو ہمہیں بھی سنا دیجئے -
Peace...then please tell it to me, too!

اچھا، میں گذرے ہوئے ایک زمانے پر سے پردہ ہٹاتا تاکہ تم خود دیکھو، سنو اور انبھو کرو۔ وہ اس پر جان دیتی تھی کیونکہ وہ اور -
لڑکوں جیسا نہ تھا۔
Okay, I remove the curtain on a world of the past in order that you yourself see, hear, and experience it. She had given her life for him because he wasn't like other boys.

تمہیں کوئی پنجڑے میں بند کرے تو کیسا لگے؟ ہمہارے تو بہت برا لگے۔ ہے نا، کستوری؟ -
How would it feel if you were locked up in a cage? I'd feel very bad about it. Right, Kasturi?

ہاں۔ -
Yeah.

لال جھنڈی دکھاؤ تو گاڑی رک جاتی ہے۔ ہری جھنڈی دکھاؤ تو گاڑی چلی جاتی ہے۔
The train stops when you show a red flag. The train goes when show a green flag.

!میرا باپ تیرے باپ سے بڑا ہے۔ وہ جتنے دکھاۓ تو سب گاڑی رک جائے
My dad is greater than your dad. When he shows (the flags), all the trains stop!

!اور میرا باپ سودا نہ دے سارا گاؤں بھوک کو مر جائے۔ بول -
Oh yeah? Well, if my dad didn't sell grain, the whole village would die of hunger.

...لڑکا ذات کا برہمن تھا اور لڑکی اچھوت۔ پھر بھی ان دونوں کے باپ ایک دوسرے کے بڑے دوست تھے کیوں کہ -
The boy was a Brahmin by caste, and the girl, an untouchable. Nevertheless, both of their fathers were each other's best friends because...

کیا ہوا؟ کیا ہوا؟ -
What happened? What happened?

ساپ تو کاٹ لیا ہے۔ ہم نے وجنا کو بلایا ہے۔ -
A snake bit him. We've called the doctor.

اب ڈر کی بات نہیں۔ میں نے سب جہر (زہر) چوس لیا...مجھے کشما کرنا، پنڈت جی۔ میں نے تمہیں چھو لیا۔ کیا کروں؟ تمہاری جان -
جوکھم میں تھی۔
There's no need to be afraid now. I've sucked out all the poison...Please forgive me, Panditji. I touched you. What could I do? Your life was in danger.

سمی کے ساتھ ساتھ بچپن بھی بیت گیا۔ -
Their childhoods passed with time.

!کستوری -
Kasturi!

پرتاپ! کہاں چلے؟ -
Pratap! Where are you going?

!یہیں پاس کے گاؤں سے ناج لینے جا رہا ہاں۔ چل، تو بھی چل -
I'm going to get grain from the next village. Come on, you come, too!

اچھا۔ -
Okay.

موہن لال جی بھیا، اب تم ہمہارا گھر آنا جانا چھوڑو! تم اونچ جات ہو، ہم نیچ۔ اس بات سے سارا گاؤں تمہارا بیری ہو گیا ہے۔ -
Brother Mohanlal, now you stop coming to our house! You're high-caste; we are low-caste. The whole village has become enemies with you for this reason.

بھیا، میرا تمہارا سمبندھ اونچ نیچ کا نہیں۔ کیا کبھی میں یہ بھول سکتا ہوں کہ تم نے اپنی جان کی پروہ نہ کر کے میری جان بچائی؟ -
جو تم نے میرے لئے کیا بھائی بھائی کے لئے نہیں کر سکتا۔ اس بات کو سارا گاؤں جانتا ہے۔ در اصل یہ بابو لال وید ہمہارے تمہارے بارے میں لوگوں کو بیر کر رہا تھا۔
Brother, our relationship isn't about high and low. Can I ever forget that you saved my life without any regard for your own? Even brothers can't do for each other what you did for me. The whole village knows this. Actually, this Dr. Babulal was stirring up trouble for you and me.

یہ بابو لال تم سے کیوں جلتا؟ مجھے اس کی طرف سے بہت ہڑتا۔ -
Why is Babulal jealous of you? I don't like that.

میں جو گاؤں والوں کو کونائیں بھیج دیتا ہوں تو اس بیچارے کی اچت دواؤں کو کوئی نہیں پوچھتا۔ بس یہی بات ہے۔ -
When I sell quinine to the villagers, nobody asks about the poor guy's useless medicines. That's why.

...کیوں جی؟ -
Hey!

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby Saim » 2020-04-26, 15:24

eskandar wrote:Any interest in reading a short story? There are some real classics here along with glossaries. I'm going to read Anwar Sajjad's "Cinderella" there to start. Since the vocabulary is already provided, maybe we can post about structures or sentences we found difficult to understand.


Definitely, I was wondering what to read next. :D

I'll also watch the clip from Acchut Kanya today or tomorrow.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-04-26, 19:09

Watching this clip, my suspicions about the register of Hindi that'd be used in the film were confirmed :lol: Much of the dialogue is very slow and clear, like you said, but there are a bunch of, uh, really Hindi words that are beyond me.

vijayjohn wrote:مجھے کشما کرنا

It sounds like he's saying something else here, but I can't quite get exactly what it is.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-05-01, 16:53

If it helps, here are the words that struck me as Shuddh Hindi. Unsurprisingly, all of these words exist in Malayalam, too (with slight changes, e.g. words in Malayalam often end in -am just like the name of the language does):

بھوت - ghost (in Malayalam at least, also 'past')
سکل - all
سنسار - world (in Malayalam, by default, I actually think of this word as meaning 'conversation'. It does mean 'world' in Malayalam, too, but I can't remember ever seeing that use of the word in Malayalam, only in Indo-Aryan languages)
جل - water (in West Bengal, jol is simply the common word for 'water')
آکاش - sky (though I think of it as meaning 'air')
پون - air (though I think of it as meaning 'wind' :lol:)
دھن - wealth
دیوی - goddess (but you probably knew this one)
جنم - birth (also in the story you posted!)
کرم - karma
جیون - life
کتھا - story
پنیہ (पुण्य) - pure
آتما - soul, self
شانتی - peace
انبھو - experience
برہمن - Brahmin (duh)
وجناتا - doctor (and also scholar, I guess. This word I don't really know, and I'm not actually sure whether it exists in Malayalam or not. It probably does, though).
چهما - forgiveness
سمبندھ - relationship
وید - doctor (especially in the Ayurvedic sense; a much more common word than وجناتا)

I think the gatekeeper may have been speaking Kannauji and the bhajan may have been in Braj Bhasha. IIRC Krishna bhajans are supposed to be in Braj Bhasha since this is the variety natively spoken in Gokul where Krishna supposedly spent his childhood. In some varieties of Hindi, they say میرو (mero) instead of میرا; this -a/-o alteration is common in Indo-Aryan languages (like in Marwari: gadiya walo re nawab, aayo re mangetar re...maan liyo maine surat se). Presumably, this is also why the gatekeeper says کھولوں گو (khulungo) instead of کھولوں گا.

کا means 'what' in at least some varieties of Hindi, including Braj AFAIR. I suppose سنسارا is a locative or oblique form of سنسار in Braj. ناہی means نہیں, I guess سکے can mean (سکتا (ہوں, and I take آیی رہی ہے to mean the same as آ رہی ہے and آؤ کرے to mean آتے. I also noticed Pratap saying ہاں instead of ہوں, like in Punjabi! (Well, at least it reminded me of Punjabi). ہڑنا is apparently also a dialect-specific term that Platts translates as 'to be tested (as the accuracy of a weight, &c.).'

Some mistakes I caught btw:
اس کی جیون کتھا ایک پنیہ کتھا ہے جس کے سنے اور سنانے سے آتما کو شانتی ملتی ہے۔ -

ہمہیں تو بہت برا لگے۔ ہے نا، کستوری؟

ہم نے وجناتا بلایا ہے۔

Also idr how I got "گنوان." I must've made a mistake. :hmm:
eskandar wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:مجھے کشما کرنا

It sounds like he's saying something else here, but I can't quite get exactly what it is.

Maybe it was چهما rather than کشما.

New vocab for me:

پھاٹک - gate
قصور - fault
جیب - pocket
تل - ground
پنجڑا - cage
سودا کرنا - to traffic, purchase
وجناتا - doctor (Shuddh Hindi)
چھما کرنا chhima karna - to forgive
چهونا - to touch
جوکهم - risk?
بيتنا - to pass
ناج - grain
بیر bair - hostility
بیری - enemy
ہڑنا - "to be tested (as the accuracy of a weight, &c.)"
اچت - stupid

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-05-01, 19:47

Some of these are used in Urdu as well (بھوت , دھن , جنم، برہمن). Definitely didn't know words like آکاش and پون - thanks!
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2020-05-04, 1:59

Quick question, can anyone tell me what is the word at 2:17 here? "یہ آپ کی آنکھیں ___ کیوں ہوئے؟" I understand from the context it must mean something like watering, running, crying, but I can't make it out.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Urdu Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-05-04, 20:42

My best guess is ڈبڈبا, pronounced ḍubḍuba here rather than ḍabḍaba (I guess ḍabḍaba is a dialectal variant of ḍubḍuba).

This is a response to a post from almost two years ago; sorry I never responded to it until now:
eskandar wrote:
Saim wrote:I would especially appreciate sentences for the following words: بزم ,غمّازی ,پاسبان ,فگار ,عبث.

They are all poetic/literary words which come from Persian. I don't think any of these are used much in everyday speech. بزم (feasting) often comes together with رزم (fighting) as bazm-o-razm "feasting and fighting".

بزم is the most recognizable one of those words to me, probably for the most part because Ghalib uses it so much.
A line from Mir comes to mind for عبث :
ناحق ہم مجبوروں پر یہ تہمت ہے مختاری کی
چاہتے ہیں سو آپ کریں، ہم کو عبث بدنام کیا

I'll leave its translation as an exercise ;) but to understand it you need to know that God is being addressed, atypically, as آپ here.

I guess something like this?

You made this accusation unfairly against us poor, captive people.
No matter what you want, you insulted us in vain.


Meanwhile, I tried reading just the first few lines of the Cinderella story, and I'm already baffled. I'm going to attempt a translation just so that I can try to make sense of them:

Sometimes, she thought her life was an instant; sometimes, she thought her life was a hundred years; sometimes, she thought she was not within the bounds of life, or perhaps she should take her life.
She was perpetually confined to her room and hoped that someone would come and give birth to her from that (i.e. their?) stomach. Then she would wonder when anyone would give birth to her. They would have to trick themselves. What would come out (happen?) if she were to come out dead?! She quietly opened the door/gate and looked outside. Outside, in front of the door/gate, she saw, with panting, wild, deceitful eyes that released such a massive, bloody tongue, what had been standing there since eternity.


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