Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

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Saim
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Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Saim » 2012-05-18, 20:22

[you
http://sifar.in/track/commonwealth-insaan

सारी दिली मैं रौनक है और मैं हूँ अकेला,
लगेंगे दो घंटे या चा,
इस ट्रैफ़िक मैं मेरे या


song: http://www.lyricsmasti.com/song/4588/ge ... -Love.html

lyrics: http://filmkahani.com/bollywood-latest- ... yrics.html

आप से अर्ज़ है
आप का यह फ़र्ज़ है
नबज़ तो नब्ज़ तो देखिए
जान का यह मर्ज़ है


I always used to interpret this as ड़, and then some sort of merger of र and ड़, but it doesn't even seem tapped at all. It sounds pretty much like [ɹ] to me... :S What's going on here?

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Jesus Bhai » 2012-05-19, 14:22

If I'm understanding right, you mix up र and ड़? Because just based on my personal experience speaking and listening to Hindi, all those examples have always been pretty concrete in pronunciation as र and not ड़. Now I'm not sure what you mean by English R. In Hindi, much like the latino Languages, the R is rolled I believe.

In some songs they may try to make the words sound like they're being pronounced by a foreigner, so they pronounce things funny. Like listen to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF8W7DyPhsI

Notice some weird pronunciations? That's probably because the singers were emulating that sort of accent we come to expect from Uneducated/Villagers/Foreigners. Then you have singers who are from different regions of India, that when they sing Hindi, they pronounce स as श for example.

Hope that was helpful, I didn't quite understand the original post. :hmm:
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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Saim » 2012-05-19, 14:46

I mean that none of those examples I listed sound tapped to me, and they definitely sound different to the usual initial and medial sound that . Listen to the first song again and compare the in यार and चार and then compare it to that one in और... the last one sounds clearly tapped to me, but the other two don't.

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Meera » 2012-05-19, 17:10

Jesus Bhai wrote:If I'm understanding right, you mix up र and ड़? Because just based on my personal experience speaking and listening to Hindi, all those examples have always been pretty concrete in pronunciation as र and not ड़. Now I'm not sure what you mean by English R. In Hindi, much like the latino Languages, the R is rolled I believe.



I'm not an expert on Spanish, but I dont think the r roll in Hindi is anything like the Spanish roll. I havent heard Spanish that much, but the rolled R in Spanish is much more noticable, or it could be that I'm too used to Hindi. :blush:
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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Jesus Bhai » 2012-05-19, 19:22

I'm no expert either, especially when it comes to these technical things. I don't know if its more noticeable or not though. For example the name, Roberto, would have a roll on the R. Now in Hindi, we have like rasgulla, rab, aksar. I can't hear any difference between those r's.
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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Saim » 2012-05-20, 9:14

In Spanish we have two rs, the tapped /ɾ/ (written <r>) and the rolled /r/ (written <rr>). /ɾ/ also becomes [r] after /n/ (so <nr> would be pronounced [nr] instead of [nɾ], or like <nrr>) and at the beginning of an utterance. The second sound is what I think Meera means about the "r"s being more noticeablem, while the first one is as far as I can tell identical to Hindi-Urdu.

So you're both right!! :lol:

Back to the original topic, I suppose I am hearing things, because neither of you can hear the difference between my examples.

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Meera » 2012-05-21, 5:27

Saim wrote:In Spanish we have two rs, the tapped /ɾ/ (written <r>) and the rolled /r/ (written <rr>). /ɾ/ also becomes [r] after /n/ (so <nr> would be pronounced [nr] instead of [nɾ], or like <nrr>) and at the beginning of an utterance. The second sound is what I think Meera means about the "r"s being more noticeablem, while the first one is as far as I can tell identical to Hindi-Urdu.

So you're both right!! :lol:



Yes thats what I meant, I don't know alot about Spainish. :blush:
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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby installer_swan » 2012-05-23, 0:10

Saim wrote:http://sifar.in/track/commonwealth-insaan

सारी दिली मैं रौनक है और मैं हूँ अकेला,
लगेंगे दो घंटे या चा,
इस ट्रैफ़िक मैं मेरे या

As a native Hindi speaker I can agree that the र's you have marked are indeed being pronounced in a non-standard way as [ɹ]. One thing that struck me was (what appears to me) the overall anglicised accent of the singer, so it may just be his English interfering with the Hindi. More and more people seem to prefer this kind of affectation that maybe soon it may well become a dialectical variant. \

Saim wrote:आप से अर्ज़ है
आप का यह फ़र्ज़ है
नबज़ तो नब्ज़ तो देखिए
जान का यह मर्ज़ है

So, these [ɹ]'s are a recent innovation in Hindi, however, there is one caveat I should add. In words of Farsi origin like "अर्ज़" the <rz> is pronounced as [ɹz] simply due to ease of articulation of this combination. Also, in poetry/songs र -> [ɹ], when it needs to stretched out in time to fit the metre, eg. [məgəɹ..ɹr] in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmeMg-gm1Us
Fluent: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]hi[/flag] [flag]ur[/flag]
Conversant: [flag]ta[/flag]
Learning: [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]
Passing familiarity: [flag]gu[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby Saim » 2012-05-23, 7:51

शुक्रिया इन्स्टॉलर । तो मैं नहीं पादव हुआ हूँ :lol: । यह एक और अच्छा नमून

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3F7kcLrGvA

हक़ का गाने मैं, वह औरत 6:48 मैं बेतरतीब [ɾ] से [ɹ] को बदलती है. :shock:

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby installer_swan » 2012-05-25, 23:54

Saim wrote:शुक्रिया इन्स्टॉलर । तो मैं नहीं पादव हुआ हूँ :lol: । यह एक और अच्छा नमून

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3F7kcLrGvA

हक़ का गाने मैं, वह औरत 6:48 मैं बेतरतीब [ɾ] से [ɹ] को बदलती है. :shock:
बहुत दिलचस्प बात है, इस गाने में मुझे ये [ɾ] का [ɹ] करना, अजीब नहीं लगा, एक तरह से यह गाने के लय में सादगी से शामिल हो गया। लेकिन, पहला गाना जो तुमने पोस्ट किया था, उसमे बहुत ग़लत सा लगा। ऐसा क्यों है, और कब ये ठीक लगता है और कब ग़लत, ये शायद किसी ध्वनिशास्त्र (phonetics) के ज्ञाता (expert) से ही पता चलेगा।
Fluent: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]hi[/flag] [flag]ur[/flag]
Conversant: [flag]ta[/flag]
Learning: [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]
Passing familiarity: [flag]gu[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby gujji » 2016-06-07, 9:49

i could not post new threads, so i ask here this. Can i get urdu version of this lyrics below

dam dam dadam dadaiya re
sabse bade ladaiya re
omkara, hey omkara
dam dam dadam dadaiya re
sabse bade ladaiya re
omkara, hey omkara
hey omkara re, omkara
are dam dam dadam dadaiya re
sabse bade ladaiya re
omkara, hey omkara
hey omkara re, omkara
anke tej takaiya do
to jib samp ka phunkara
omkara, hey omkara
are bijuri sa ponde sar pe
jiski talvar ka jhankara
omkara, hey omkara
omkara re, omkara
omkara omkara
omkara, omkara re, omkara

mate par tirsul ke jaise
tin tin bal badte hei
are kan pe joenge to bheiya
ran baja chal padte hei
are mate par tirsul ke jaise
tin tin bal badte hei
are kan pe joenge to bheiya
ran baja chal padte hei
gale gale me, are gale gale me
gale gale me bhay baitha hei
chaounk pe gunja hunkara, omkara
are dum dum dum
dam dam dadam dadaiya re
sabse bade ladaiya re
omkara, hey omkara, hey omkara re

jhanan jhanan jhanan jhanan jhankara
jhanan jhanan jhanan jhanan jhankara
bad bheiya bheiya bad bheiya omkara
bad bheiya bheiya bad bheiya omkara
omkara

chat par akar gid baithe
aour parnalo se khun bae
are kaoun gira hei, kaoun kata hei
kisma dam hei kaoun kae
are chat par akar gid baithe
aour parnalo se khun bae
are kaoun gira hei, kaoun kata hei
kisma dam hei kaoun kae
chake chut gaye dushman ke, omkara
chake chut gaye dushman ke
darati mange chutkara
omkara, hey omkara, omkara re omkara

are dam dam dadam dadaiya re
sabse bade ladaiya re
omkara, hey omkara
hey omkara re, omkara
anke tej takaiya do
to jib samp ka phunkara
omkara, hey omkara
are bijuri sa ponde sar pe
jiski talvar ka jhankara
omkara, hey omkara
omkara, hey omkara

chake chut gaye dushman ke
chake chut gaye dushman ke
darati mange chutkara, omkara
jhanan jhanan jhanan jhankara
bad bheiya bheiya bad bheiya omkara
jhanan jhanan jhanan jhankara
bad bheiya bheiya bad bheiya omkara
omkara re, omkara

source : http://lyricstonic.com/dham-dham-dharam ... ara-movie/

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Re: Am I hearing things? English R in Hindi?

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-18, 17:11

Saim, I've heard that R in Hindi songs, too, in contexts like the one installer_swan described where the rhotic is being lengthened (I haven't heard this [ɹːr] pronunciation they mentioned, just [ɹː]). I recall one of my phonetics professors when I was a university student claiming that [ɹ] is a pretty common sound in the world's languages, more so than [r] because trills can be hard or even impossible to articulate.
gujji wrote:i could not post new threads, so i ask here this. Can i get urdu version of this lyrics below

I'll try, but I'm omitting most of the repetitive parts:
ارے دھم دھم دھڑم دھڑیا رے
سب سے بڑے لڑیا رے
اومکارا اے اومکارا
آنکھیں تیج تکیا دو
تو جبھ سانپ کا پهنکار
اومکارا اے اومکارا
ارے بجری سانپوں دے سر پے
جس کی تلوار کا جھنکارا
اومکارا اے اومکارا

ماتھے پر ترسول کے جیسے
تین تین بل بڑتے ہیں
ارے کان پی جوئیں گے تو بھیا
ران بجا چل پڑتے ہیں
گلی گلی میں، ارے گلی گلی میں
گلی گلی میں بھائی بیٹھا ہے
چونک پے گنجا ہنکارا، اومکارا
ارے دھوم دھوم دھوم

جھنن جھنن جھنن جھنن جھنکارا
بڑ بھیا بھیا بڑ بھیا اومکارا
اومکارا

چھٹ پر آ کر گد بیٹھے
اور پرنالوں سے خون بہے
ارے کون گرا ہے، کون کٹا ہے
قسمہ دم ہے قوم کہے
چھکے چھوٹ گئے دشمن کے
دھرتی مانگے چٹکارا
اومکارا اے اومکارا


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