Short Questions

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Cycol
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Cycol » 2013-05-06, 20:17

Satsuma wrote:
Cycol wrote:
Cycol wrote:So how do you make the ergative constructions?

I mean 'ne' added to the noun.
how do you use it in Hindi?
I didn't quite understand the usage of ने, so I figured this might be a good opportunity to read up on it... helping you understand it will help me to understand it. From what I've read, ने is used in sentences with a transitive verb in the perfective tense (tense, aspect, whatevs, you know what I mean). It is inserted after the subject of the sentence, but since this is an ergative marker, the verb agrees with the object of the sentence. So it'd be हम लिखे we wrote compared to हमने चिट्ठी लिखी we wrote a letter. लिखना agrees with हम (masculine plural) in the first sentence because it is intransitive, and it agrees with चिट्ठी (feminine singular) in the second because it is transitive.

Note that like the postpositions (से etc.) and का, nouns are in the oblique case when followed by ने. Pronouns are a bit odd here, though. Personal pronouns remain unchanged, except for यह and वह, which take their oblique forms (so इसने and उसने), and ये and वे, which become इन्होंने and उन्होंने.

EDIT: Meera beat me to it! :P Funny how we both used लिखना... TY Hindi anyone?

Hmm... thanks I see...
I had problem with it, because my textbook didn't explain it clearly.
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Meera » 2013-09-16, 16:07

Hello everyone, I had a short question about a song lyric. So I was trying to translate Mar Jawaan from Fashion. For the actual lyric "Mar Jawaan" I had translated it as "Die young" however when I looked it up the correct translation, the lyrics were given "I'll die for you". I was wondering if this was an idiom?
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Bijlee » 2013-09-17, 22:41

I think it might be a Punjabi phrase.

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Re: Short Questions

Postby Meera » 2013-09-19, 23:50

Bijlee wrote:I think it might be a Punjabi phrase.


oh Yeah I think you might be right :blush:
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Saim » 2013-09-20, 10:17

In Punjabi जाऊँगा is either ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ or ਜਾਵਾਂ. So yeah, it's Punjabi for "I will die".

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Re: Short Questions

Postby Meera » 2013-09-21, 0:14

Lol thanks, that makes more sense now.:P
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Bijlee » 2013-09-26, 3:05

"पहुलओं" का मतलब क्या है?
मैं ने शब्दकोष में इस शब्द की तलाश की, लेकिन कोई जवाब नहीं था।

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Re: Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-07-12, 3:51

Sorry, I know this is really late, but do you by any chance mean पहुल? This wiki article says:

The word Pahul is a derivative from the substantive Pahu – which is an agent which brightens, accelerates or sharpens the potentialities of a given object

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Re: Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-18, 18:16

Reviving this thread (and sorry for the double post) to ask whether anyone knows which variety of Hindi this song is in. I think it might be in Braj Bhasha like other songs of the same style (thumri). Do others agree?

It's the last song I posted on the songs thread as of now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-bvaFL-IOs

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Re: Short Questions

Postby Meera » 2017-07-12, 16:29

Hi Vijay, yes I agree that it is Braj Bhasha. I've thumri songs in Awadhi too though.
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Re: Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-08, 0:23

Hi Meera! Late reply on my part, but thanks! :)

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Re: Short Questions

Postby mundiya » 2017-10-09, 18:38

vijayjohn wrote:Reviving this thread (and sorry for the double post) to ask whether anyone knows which variety of Hindi this song is in. I think it might be in Braj Bhasha like other songs of the same style (thumri). Do others agree?


This thumri is a mix of Khari Boli and Braj Bhasha. It's a beautiful song. :)

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Re: Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-09, 21:44

mundiya wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Reviving this thread (and sorry for the double post) to ask whether anyone knows which variety of Hindi this song is in. I think it might be in Braj Bhasha like other songs of the same style (thumri). Do others agree?


This thumri is a mix of Khari Boli and Braj Bhasha. It's a beautiful song. :)

That makes sense. Thanks! :)

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Re: Short Questions

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-02-04, 20:29

I have an issue of a Pakistani literary magazine called Jasoosi Digest, and the ad at the beginning for an anti-dandruff shampoo called "De Sikri" begins as follows:

سکری اور سر کی خارش سے یکمُشت اور مکمّل نجات

What does that mean? In particular, what does یکمشت mean here? My best guess is this line means something like "a handful [I guess referring to the bottle of shampoo] of a more perfect refuge from dandruff and head itches."

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Re: Short Questions

Postby Saim » 2018-04-06, 17:08

vijayjohn wrote:I have an issue of a Pakistani literary magazine called Jasoosi Digest, and the ad at the beginning for an anti-dandruff shampoo called "De Sikri" begins as follows:

سکری اور سر کی خارش سے یکمُشت اور مکمّل نجات

What does that mean? In particular, what does یکمشت mean here? My best guess is this line means something like "a handful [I guess referring to the bottle of shampoo] of a more perfect refuge from dandruff and head itches."


I'd imagine it would mean something more like:

"Instant and total salvation from dandruff and head itches."

Here a number of synonyms for یکمُشت are given, including فی الفور, which means "instantly" according to Oxford's Urdu-English dictionary (it doesn't have its own entry but it shows up under the entry for فور, and there is of course the rather common word ًفَورا, at once, immediately).

مجھے لگتا ہے کہ یہ ترجمہ صحیح ہو گا:


"Instant and total salvation from dandruff and head itches."
یہاں پر یکمُشت کے کئی مترادف ملتے ہیں، جن میں سے "فی الفور" بھی ہے، حس کا مطلب ہے "instantly" آکسفورڈ کی انگریزی-اردو لغت کے مطابق۔
اس لفظ کی اپنی کو‏ئی تعریف نہیں ملتی، لیکن "فور" کی تعریف کے تحت "فی الفور" کا مطلب بھی موجود ہے۔ اس سے علاوہ "فورا" اکثر استعمال بھی ہوتا ہے، اور اس کا مطلب at once, immediately ہے۔

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Common (shared) Hindi/Urdu subset?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-10, 11:00

How to learn Hindi/Urdu (which possibly are also called Hindustani when referring to both of them at once) a single time in a way that enables one to speak to people from both countries (India and Pakistan)?

By "a single time" I mean: how to learn both of Hindi/Urdu at once, as opposed to learning Hindi and Urdu as two different languages/variants.

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Re: Short Questions

Postby eskandar » 2018-11-28, 5:06

At the spoken level they remain highly mutually intelligible and sometimes mutually indistinguishable. Focus on colloquial spoken materials. I don't know of any learning materials that really teach the way people in India and Pakistan actually speak; everything I've seen gives you some level of high-register vocabulary (Sanskritic for Hindi, Persianate for Urdu) that most people don't use in speech outside of academic, religious, or otherwise highly formal settings. (In many cases they tend to use English in place of these words). Since the grammar is basically identical, I would stick to learning grammar first, and then pick up vocabulary from spoken sources (movies, TV, etc.) - that will help you avoid wasting time by learning to read Hindi newspapers or Urdu poetry full of words you'd never use in speech.
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Re: Short Questions

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-29, 5:42

eskandar wrote:At the spoken level they remain highly mutually intelligible and sometimes mutually indistinguishable. Focus on colloquial spoken materials.
Makes sense, I think I will just do it like that.
@all (less @eskandar because of his current signature): Still wondering a bit how to deal with Urdu/Hindi Communication Pitfalls. Like words that have this connotation to Urdu speakers, but that to those of Hindi.

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Re: Short Questions

Postby eskandar » 2018-11-29, 16:18

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:@all (less @eskandar because of his current signature): Still wondering a bit how to deal with Urdu/Hindi Communication Pitfalls. Like words that have this connotation to Urdu speakers, but that to those of Hindi.

That isn't so much the problem with Hindi/Urdu. I can think of few, if any, words that have different connotations in the two languages. The bigger problem is words that only speakers of one variety will understand. In those cases, if you say, for example, adab and are met with blank stares by a Hindi speaker, or sahitya and are not understood by an Urdu speaker, using the English word "literature" will almost certainly guarantee you'll be understood by both. In general, if we think of Hindustani as a spectrum spoken by Indians and Pakistanis alike, with formal Hindi on the far end of one side of the spectrum and formal Urdu on the other, I would say that Urdu tends to be less far from the center than Hindi. In other words, common spoken Hindustani overlaps more with the Urdu used in newspapers than the Hindi used in newspapers. (On the other hand, Hindi-speakers in India sometimes think of Urdu as "anything I can't understand," so they might see this issue differently).

All of that being said, Hindi- and Urdu-speakers can communicate easily, enjoy each other's media, and often not even realize that they are speaking what they think are different languages when they speak to each other. Since I know see that you know Arabic to a high level, I suggest starting with Urdu learning materials (taking advantage of already knowing the script and much of the vocabulary), and then exposing yourself to Hindi media. That's basically what I did. I learned Urdu after having studied Persian and Arabic. I've never even tried to study or learn Hindi, and I generally have no problems speaking to Hindi-speakers, because I've developed a sense for which words are common Hindustani and which are only used in Urdu, through conversation and through watching Indian media.
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Re: Short Questions

Postby Forever Knowledge » 2018-12-01, 3:39

eskandar wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:@all (less @eskandar because of his current signature): Still wondering a bit how to deal with Urdu/Hindi Communication Pitfalls. Like words that have this connotation to Urdu speakers, but that to those of Hindi.

That isn't so much the problem with Hindi/Urdu. I can think of few, if any, words that have different connotations in the two languages. The bigger problem is words that only speakers of one variety will understand. In those cases, if you say, for example, adab and are met with blank stares by a Hindi speaker, or sahitya and are not understood by an Urdu speaker, using the English word "literature" will almost certainly guarantee you'll be understood by both. In general, if we think of Hindustani as a spectrum spoken by Indians and Pakistanis alike, with formal Hindi on the far end of one side of the spectrum and formal Urdu on the other, I would say that Urdu tends to be less far from the center than Hindi. In other words, common spoken Hindustani overlaps more with the Urdu used in newspapers than the Hindi used in newspapers. (On the other hand, Hindi-speakers in India sometimes think of Urdu as "anything I can't understand," so they might see this issue differently).


I don't agree with the example you provided about newspapers. Hindi newspapers overlap to a very large extent with common spoken Hindustani, as they should since they are aimed at the mass public.


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