Afrikaans and Dutch

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Boes
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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Boes » 2009-02-22, 18:56

melan wrote:The fact remains that it is used with that meaning. Not by everyone, this usage isn't universal, but it is certainly bigger than mere dialectal usage.

Well, we could debate that one. I know for sure for example, the West Flemish dialects don't use it.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Copperfield » 2009-02-22, 20:33

I know in Afrikaans "verstaan" is used the same way as "verstehen" in German with the meaning of "understand".

They also use the word "begryp" in Afrikaans but that is used in the context of "to grasp" something.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Siegel » 2009-02-27, 15:47

Just as "begreifen" is used in German.
^^lol^^

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Copperfield » 2009-03-15, 20:45

It was so funny when I found this site about Cape Town in Dutch.

http://www.kaapstadmagazine.nl

For someone who can understand and speak Afrikaans, Dutch looks very much like formal Afrikaans.

I was thinking seeing that Cape Town was Dutch long before it became part of the British empire, it just seems more right to have a site dedicated to Cape Town (Kaapstad) in Dutch. :mrgreen:

I think the Afrikaans and Dutch speakers (Netherlands + Belgium +Suriname) can work closer together regarding their languages.
Why is there no Dutch/ Flemish/ Afrikaans combined tv station that people can look at?

I know in South Africa people are becoming more and more influence by the English language. If there was an Afrikaans/Dutch/Flemish/Suriname tv station maybe people will see that English is not the only international language that is useful.

Of course I'm not saying English is not important language I'm just saying the Dutch have a golden opportunity to expand it's useage and users of the language. I mean the more people that speak or understand a language the more people will use and learn that language.

If you take Portuguese for example, Portuguese spoken in Europe has only got 10,6 million native speakers, making it a language no bigger than Dutch but if you include Brazil with it's 190.6 million native speakers it officially becomes the 6th largest language in the world!

I think the point I'm trying to make is the Dutch have a golden opportunity to expand the usage of the language by working closer together with the Afrikaans speakers in Southern Africa. There should be a Dutch/Flemish/Suriname/ Afrikaans channel where people can learn each others languages. It will boost the useage of Dutch amongst Afrikaans speakers aswell.

A British person for example have no difficulty communicating with an American person because the British person is exposed to American English on tv from a very young age and the American is also exposed to British English thanks to tv and the former British colonies.


British English vs American English

Pavement = Sidewalk
Curtains = Drapes
Tap = Faucet
Boot = Trunk
Nappy = Dipper
Dummy = Pacifier
Spanner = Monkey Wrench

Nobody in England had to look up in a dictionary what Sidewalk, Dipper etc means because we have heard the word on the Simpsons and know it already.

That's why I'm saying a Dutch/Flemish/Afrikaans/Surinaam channel is essential in expanding the Dutch language and it's usage. A country like France, Portugal will jump at the opportunity to expand their languages why not the Dutch?

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Boes » 2009-03-15, 21:13

Copperfield wrote:I think the Afrikaans and Dutch speakers (Netherlands + Belgium +Suriname) can work closer together regarding their languages.
Why is there no Dutch/ Flemish/ Afrikaans combined tv station that people can look at?

I know in South Africa people are becoming more and more influence by the English language. If there was an Afrikaans/Dutch/Flemish/Suriname tv station maybe people will see that English is not the only international language that is useful.

Of course I'm not saying English is not important language I'm just saying the Dutch have a golden opportunity to expand it's useage and users of the language. I mean the more people that speak or understand a language the more people will use and learn that language.

I think the point I'm trying to make is the Dutch have a golden opportunity to expand the usage of the language by working closer together with the Afrikaans speakers in Southern Africa. There should be a Dutch/Flemish/Suriname/ Afrikaans channel where people can learn each others languages. It will boost the useage of Dutch amongst Afrikaans speakers aswell.

No offense, but what purpose would it serve? Dutch already has 21 million native speakers in Europe, most languages in this day and age can only dream of such numbers. Afrikaans is quite safe as well, if preservation is concerned. Why would we want to learn each others languages anyway? If there is one thing that binds the Dutch and Afrikaners its the notion that its stupid to learn a language you can already understand. :)

Copperfield wrote:A British person for example have no difficulty communicating with an American person because the British person is exposed to American English on tv from a very young age and the American is also exposed to British English thanks to tv and the former British colonies.

The situation between BR ENG and AM ENG is not the same as the situation between Dutch and Afrikaans.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Copperfield » 2009-03-15, 21:43

Why do the Flemish learn Standard Dutch if they can understand it already??


hmmmm....... :hmm:

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Boes » 2009-03-16, 18:06

Copperfield wrote:Why do the Flemish learn Standard Dutch if they can understand it already??


hmmmm....... :hmm:


Erm, I don't know ... maybe so they can write down what they're saying? :?

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Copperfield » 2009-03-16, 20:43

I am sorry but I have a friend from Belgium and he says he can speak flemish nobody in the Netherlands would be able to understand. :silly: Care to explain why my Flemish friend says he can speak a flemish nobody in the Netherlands can understand???


And by the way 23 million native speakers is really NOTHING compared to Spanish with over 400 million native speakers or even German with over 108 million native speakers in Europe alone. I'm not even going to try and compare Dutch to English or French.

All I was trying to say the Dutch have the opportunity to expand their language by introducing a Dutch/Flemish/Afrikaans channel so everyone can learn** and expand the language (seeing that Afrikaans is already a Dutch creol??? :hmm: Spain does it, France does it. You can find Fench channels in Canada. Portuguese channels in Brazil. These channels are mostly subtitled as Brazilian Portuguese is completely diffrent from European Portuguese yet in some way still connected with the motherland.

But looking at your Dutch reply I have been put off the Dutch language for good now!
I will just stick to learning Spanish, French and German for now.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Boes » 2009-03-16, 21:48

Copperfield wrote:I am sorry but I have a friend from Belgium and he says he can speak Flemish nobody in the Netherlands would be able to understand. :silly: Care to explain why my Flemish friend says he can speak Flemish nobody in the Netherlands can understand???

Sure. In terms of probability of the correctness of your friends statement it's extremely likely he's a liar or will be proven wrong. In terms of language ... in Dutch most dialects in their (most) pure forms are hard to understand for speakers of other dialects. It's not that special. It's basically why we developed a standard language some 550 years ago. It's quite simply really. Dutch people speak Dutch and at school learn to write standard Dutch. It's pretty identical to your relation to the English language.

Copperfield wrote:And by the way 23 million native speakers is really NOTHING compared to Spanish with over 400 million native speakers or even German with over 108 million native speakers in Europe alone. I'm not even going to try and compare Dutch to English or French.

I never knew there was a contest going on. All I know is, that of the about 7,000 language today, 6,950 have (far) less speakers than Dutch.

Copperfield wrote:All I was trying to say the Dutch have the opportunity to expand their language by introducing a Dutch/Flemish/Afrikaans channel so everyone can learn** and expand the language (seeing that Afrikaans is already a Dutch creol??? :hmm:

The question is why do that? Why would we want our language to expand, even though it's perfectly fine?

Copperfield wrote:But looking at your Dutch reply I have been put off the Dutch language for good now!
I will just stick to learning Spanish, French and German for now.

I can assure you I wont loose any sleep over it.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Copperfield » 2009-03-16, 23:08

A) My belgium friend is not a liar!!



Good night. :)

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Vlamingke » 2009-03-19, 13:46

Coperfield : Ik praat ook constant dialect en inderdaad zullen er vele Nederlanders zijn die mij totaal niet zullen verstaan . Dat is omgekeerd ook zo als een Groninger in zijn dialect praat zal ik ook niet al te veel van begrijpen . Vanaf ik mijn dialect praat , praat ik ook ineens Nederlands want alle Vlaamse dialecten zijn dialecten van het Nederlands .

Dat is toch logisch dat Vlamingen standaard Nederlands leren op school . Hoe moet ik anders de kranten ... lezen ? Hoe moet ik dan schrijven ? en 16.5miloen Nederlanders , 6.2miljoen Vlamingen , 0.5miljoen Surinamers maakt ons wat groter . Daarom dat er 1 standaard Nederlandse taal is zodat we mekaar begrijpen .
Nederlands is de achtste taal ofzo op het internet , de Vlaamse en Nederlandse economie tesamen maakt een "super"economie . Voor zo een "kleine" taalgemeenschap hebben wij veel bereikt :)
Copperfield , er bestaat een internationale Nederlandstalige tvzender , BVN , het beste van Vlaanderen en Nederland . Dat is ook te ontvangen in Zuid-Afrika .
Copperfield , je hebt gelijk dat het een gouden kans is om Afrikaans en Nederlands terug dichter bij mekaar te brengen .
Copperfield , er is 1 groot verschil met Vlamingen en Hollanders , Hollanders = Nederlandstalige taalverkrachters . Een Vlaming vernederlands vele meer dan Hollanders . voorbeeld : Een joint , blowen = een toep , smoren ...

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Re:

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2009-04-12, 17:02

andre wrote:
evilbu wrote:I actually know one person like that, and the funny thing is that she never really completely switches to Dutch (she still says "ons" instead of "we" and stuff like that :D )


You're right, it seems impossible for an Afrikaans speaker to become totally fluent in Dutch, and vice versa. My godparents were Dutch, they emigrated from the Netherlands just after WW2. But while both of them spoke Afrikaans, there would always be some Dutch words inbetween (such as "krant" for newspaper, "koerant" in Afrikaans).

Wij hebben ook nog steeds 'courant' al is dat wel erg ouderwets en daarom zullen de meeste Nederlanders dat woord nooit gebruiken.

edit:/
Sorry, had niet gezien dat de reactie waarop ik antwoordde al erg lang geleden was, en dat dit topic uit 9 pagina's bestond.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2009-04-12, 17:09

Vlamingke wrote:Copperfield , er is 1 groot verschil met Vlamingen en Hollanders , Hollanders = Nederlandstalige taalverkrachters . Een Vlaming vernederlands vele meer dan Hollanders . voorbeeld : Een joint , blowen = een toep , smoren ...

Maar Vlamingen verFransen ook veel meer. Dat is logisch. Kijk, wij nemen gewoon Engelse woorden over, en die stoppen we gewoon in onze taal.
Of wil jij een airbag in de auto ook ineens een luchtzak noemen zoals de Afrikaners dat doen? :D

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Re: Re:

Postby Boes » 2009-04-12, 18:08

12345 wrote:
andre wrote:
evilbu wrote:I actually know one person like that, and the funny thing is that she never really completely switches to Dutch (she still says "ons" instead of "we" and stuff like that :D )


You're right, it seems impossible for an Afrikaans speaker to become totally fluent in Dutch, and vice versa. My godparents were Dutch, they emigrated from the Netherlands just after WW2. But while both of them spoke Afrikaans, there would always be some Dutch words inbetween (such as "krant" for newspaper, "koerant" in Afrikaans).

Wij hebben ook nog steeds 'courant' al is dat wel erg ouderwets en daarom zullen de meeste Nederlanders dat woord nooit gebruiken.

Courant en krant zijn hetzelfde woord.

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Re: Re:

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2009-04-12, 19:03

Boes wrote:Courant en krant zijn hetzelfde woord.

Dat klopt, alleen wordt 'courant' volgens mij door niemand meer gebruikt en is de 'oe'-klank verdwenen, waar het zo te zien in het Afrikaans nog gebruikt wordt.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Vlamingke » 2009-04-12, 21:09

12345 wrote:
12345 wrote:Of wil jij een airbag in de auto ook ineens een luchtzak noemen zoals de Afrikaners dat doen? :D


Zo overdreven "luchtzak" moet het niet zijn .
Je moet eens een DVD-film zien met Nederlandse ondertitteling vanuit Nederland . Intensive care ? op intensief of op intensieve zorgen , waarom vertalen die dat niet ? Hyperspace ? hyperruimte is ook te moeilijk ? Subspace wordt subruimte , dat gaat wel ineens . Ga zo maar door ... Dan zetten ze die woorden tussen aanhalingstekens , cursief of soms niet . Dan komt zo over van ik weet het niet , trek je plan er mee . Dat is echt irritant . Als je naar een kinderDVD kijkt kunnen ze ineens wel percfect Nederlandstalige ondertitteling plaatsen . Dat voelt vele leuker aan om te lezen .

Uit ervaring weet ik ook dat vele woorden automatisch vernederlandsen naarmate het product algemener wordt . Ik weet nog goed dat computerwinkels 10- tot 15jaar geleden "motherbord" in hun onderdelenlijst hadden staan . Nu staat er mooi "moederbord " :)

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Vlamingke » 2009-05-23, 0:18

A Belgian interview with Charlize Theron in Dutch and Afrikaans :) nice nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fYB9s0Nyzk

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Jannie » 2009-05-23, 13:36

I have seen it. :lol:

Vlaams is so mooi taal. 8-)

Ik begrijp Vlaams/ Nederlands zonder veel moeite. :lol:
Ek begryp Vlaams/ Nederlands sonder veel moeite as 'n Afrikaans sprekende.



There is another forum where they discuss Afrikaans/ Dutch and Flemish. Check it out. 8-)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=868974

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Maja123 » 2009-06-06, 3:50

My Afrikaans husband and his siblings could not understand my Dutch speaking grandfather.

My parents came as Dutch immigrants to South Africa. We were born in South Africa and they tried to teach us correct Afrikaans. They made a few hilarious mistakes:

Instead of handsak (handbag) they used the word "tas". a Handbag in Dutch is sometimes called “tasje” but in Afrikaans tas is usually used for a schoolbag. You can imagine that my friends found it very funny. :lol:

They translate lace curtain with glas gordyn but in Afrikaans it had the meaning curtains made of glass. :silly: :lolhuh:

I found more on this site. http://roepstem.net/vv.html
Be careful what Dutch words you use it can be very embarrassing. :oops: :oops:

It works the other way round too:
When my parents visit the Netherlands after several years they used Afrikaans words instead of Dutch words for example: the Afrikaans word mikrogolf instead of the Dutch word magnetron (microwave).

They did teach us some useful phrases: :wink: :mrgreen:
Just to have a go at Vlamingke I put it all in quotation marks. :twisted:
“Ben jy helemaal belatafel”
“Gat verdorie nog aan toe”
“Doe maar gewoon dan ben je al gek genoeg”
“Viezerik”
“Schiet op”
“Flauwekul”
“Valt wel mee”
“tjonge tjonge”
“jakkes”
“goh”
“Bah”
“zeg eens, nog aan toe”
“Potverdikkie”
“Ja hoor”
“he ja”
“nou toe maar hoor”
“prima”

From them I also learn to love “prakje” and “ “ zoutedrop” mmmm!! :blah:

Some Afrikaans words Dutch speaking people might not know.
http://roepstem.net/snaaks.html
Last edited by Maja123 on 2009-06-07, 9:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Afrikaans and Dutch

Postby Vlamingke » 2009-06-06, 13:41

When my parents visit the Netherlands after several years they used Afrikaans words instead of Dutch words for example: the Afrikaans word mikrogolf instead of the Dutch word magnetron (microwave).


Euh wij Vlamingen gebruiken wel microgolfoven (in de microgolf) . Ik ken niemand die magnetron zegt , altijd microgolfoven .

“Ben jy helemaal belatafel”


nog nooit van gehoord "belatafel" :) . Wat is dat nu weer ?

Ons Vlamingen het baie voordeel op die Nederlanders , ons ken al die dialektwoorde soos "perd (paard) , hulle (zij) , julle (jullie) , braai (barbecue) , nie ... nie (niet) , skoenen (schoen), skool (school) , as (als) , doedoe gaan doen (dodo gaan doen,gaan slapen) , pas (idenditeitskaart) ... deze weet ik nu van direct van buiten maar dat zijn allemaal gangbare woorden in Vlaanderen .


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