Diskussionstråd / Discussion and Minor Questions

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TeneReef
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby TeneReef » 2013-11-14, 3:04

My accent is going to by a mix of Scanian, Norrbotten-ian and West Norwegian. :roll: :mrgreen:
It's interesting how the Scanian and the West Norwegian pitch accents are alike (and so are the Northern Norwegian and the Northern Swedish pitch accents). I like the Scanian R and the Scanian pitch accent, while I like some elements of Northern Swedish (sj pronounced like SH in English,
preterit in -ade being pronounced as [a] etc)...
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Dingbats » 2013-11-14, 10:19

TeneReef wrote:(sj pronounced like SH in English,

It's not the same sound! Using [ʃ] for the sje sound sound like an upper class Stockholm accent. The northern sje sound is closer to [ʂ].

preterit in -ade being pronounced as [a] etc)...

That's common in all of Sweden except maybe the very south.

Do post a recording when you feel confident! I'd be willing to bet your accent most of all sounds foreign rather than like a mix of whichever actual dialects ;)

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby TeneReef » 2013-12-05, 18:31

Could someone explain the tones in -a class of nouns to me, please?
Tack

Is this correct?
2kvinna, 2kvinnan, 1kvinnor, 2kvinnorna
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Grytolle
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Grytolle » 2013-12-05, 19:45

TeneReef wrote:Could someone explain the tones in -a class of nouns to me, please?
Tack

Is this correct?
2kvinna, 2kvinnan, 1kvinnor, 2kvinnorna

No they all have tonaccent :) Completely regular too, since the first syllable is stressed and they have more than one syllable

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Dingbats » 2013-12-05, 22:43

Grytolle wrote:
TeneReef wrote:Could someone explain the tones in -a class of nouns to me, please?
Tack

Is this correct?
2kvinna, 2kvinnan, 1kvinnor, 2kvinnorna

No they all have tonaccent :) Completely regular too, since the first syllable is stressed and they have more than one syllable

"Tonaccent" could be either acute or grave; what you mean is that they all have the grave accent, or accent 2.

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby TeneReef » 2014-01-26, 16:50

Why don't Southern Swedes sing with the uvular R? Is it prohibited to do so in Swedish? :para:
Compare with Norwegians: singers who use uvular R in speech, use it when they sing as well.
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Grytolle » 2014-01-26, 17:37

o.O Never noticed that! Har du några exempel?

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby TeneReef » 2014-01-26, 20:25

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Johanna » 2014-01-27, 16:31

TeneReef wrote:Why don't Southern Swedes sing with the uvular R? Is it prohibited to do so in Swedish? :para:
Compare with Norwegians: singers who use uvular R in speech, use it when they sing as well.

It's not prohibited, but for most part of the 20th century it was discouraged, and it still has an effect on what accent people chose to sing in and probably always will.

Using a standard accent makes you sound neutral, while a regional accent will pretty much force you to add certain aspects to your image. For one, moving to Stockholm is among the worst things you can do if you sing with a regional accent. Being an average pop artist singing the usual silly pop songs isn't a very good idea either, you have to have a certain degree of "authenticity", and so on and so on. So yeah, most people don't bother and go with a standard accent or English.

It's not exactly a Swedish phenomenon either, most people who sing in English use some non-rhotic but still mostly General American accent, no matter where they're from, at least when it comes to pop, rock and metal (the genres in which you actually hear what people sing at least).
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-02-28, 19:01

I have a question about Swedish last names. I saw a female Swedish skier in the Olympics with a last name ending in "-dotter", and I'm wondering what presence that sort of name (I'm presuming it's a true patronymic?) still has in Sweden. Weren't they phased out in 1901?
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-03-02, 11:23

Such names are not really around anymore, but since many Swedes have names ending in -sson that were male patronymics of a few generations ago, it happens now and then that a woman takes a new name that in shape is a true female patronymic after her father, thus ending in -sdotter, but the government regards this as a normal family name, so it happened once that such a woman's son got the surname Eriksdotter for a time, until it was corrected.

In short, you can take a patronymic as your new family name, but patronymics are not officially in practical use, so they do not function as such.

I have never heard of a particular year when patronymics ended, but it might be correct. In the late 19th century people switched from -sdotter to -sson even for true patronymics.

It is very frequent today to switch from a -sson name to a bourgeois name. I have seen many of my former classmates do so, and even Johanna on this forum has, so I assume that these -sson names are losing ground fast.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Johanna » 2014-03-18, 1:58

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:It is very frequent today to switch from a -sson name to a bourgeois name. I have seen many of my former classmates do so, and even Johanna on this forum has, so I assume that these -sson names are losing ground fast.

I had a reason much stronger than "-sson is boring" though ;) I have a close relationship with my maternal grandparents and have spent almost as much time on their farm, which has been in my grandfather's family for several generations, as in my childhood home, while I hardly even know my paternal grandfather or his immediate family, which is where my previous surname comes from.

Also, "bourgeois"... Both my maternal grandparents grew up on a farm and they moved on to farming themselves, my paternal grandmother also grew up on a farm but she moved on to become a housewife first and later studying and become a teacher. My paternal grandfather, who was a carpenter until he retired, didn't grow up on a farm as far as I know, but his parents did.

And where my maternal grandmother's from it was, and is, a lot more common to have either Finnish surnames or Swedish surnames translated from Finnish, than -sson names, no matter what your background is.

But yes, the -sson names are losing ground fast. Probably because they aren't real surnames, they're simply frozen patronymics that got inherited because of some law that less and less people think made any sense. So it's not very weird that people move away from those surnames when they can, and if you want their popularity to increase, it would probably help a lot to add the option of making them true patronymics again, and also make matronymics possible.
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-03-18, 22:01

My use of bourgeois does not have any connotations here. We do have "borgerliga släktnamn", "borgerlig vigsel", and so on. If there are better terms around, I do not remember them, if I have encountered them.

I could actually refer to myself as "Sven Svensson", the ultra-Swede, using a patronymic. :D (But that is of course not my official name.)
Last edited by Jurgen Wullenwever on 2014-03-20, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Johanna » 2014-03-19, 19:59

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:My use of bourgeois does have any connotations here. We do have "borgerliga släktnamn", "borgerlig vigsel", and so on. If there are better terms around, I do not remember them, if I have encountered them.

In English that term does carry a connotation and doesn't translate 1:1 into English. Borgerlig vigsel is 'cvil marriage' for example, and the whole name situation has been very different for a long time between English-speaking countries and Swedish. They simply started to use actual surnames for common folk a lot earlier than we did.

Seems to be a case of false friends.
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-03-20, 16:25

Lumske ligheder di kallart :(

But I apparently left out a not above. :oops:

And I do not have a Swedish family name anyway. :|
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

הענט

Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby הענט » 2014-03-20, 19:14

I'm currently reading a book by Zdenek Červenka an expat living in Sweden, who moved to France with his wife. In the book he visits some wellness center or spa to get his procedure and they write down Korkort as his name after he hands the driver's licence to the concierge clerk. They keep calling him Monsieur Korkort and he's wondering why. At the end he realizes, that the woman wrote down körkort instead of his name from the driving licence. :D

Just felt like sharing that here.

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby TeneReef » 2014-03-21, 11:30

Melodifestivalen review: Swenglish and sunshine undone in Linköping
http://www.thelocal.se/20140210/melodif ... n-linkping

. Even if you’re not a fan of her ballad-pop (I am, I won’t deny it), no one can say the woman can’t sing. Even if the chorus begins with the line “Undo my sad”, which is as delightful an example of Swenglish as you’ll ever find.
:mrgreen:
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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-03-21, 16:30

What does undo my sad mean, and how is it Swenglish?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby Halfdan » 2014-03-21, 17:37

I don't think using the wrong word constitutes Swenglish.

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Re: Swedish Discussion & Minor Questions

Postby PiotrR » 2014-03-21, 20:11

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
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