Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

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Re: dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-02-16, 23:49

Allekanger wrote:
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Våra faktiska uttal skiljer sig från skriftens.
ett brö
dä bröt/dä bröde
två brön
dom bröna

I don't think I've ever heard those forms and I bet they'd sound a bit dialectal to most people. I think the far most common way to pronounce it is the way it is also written: bröd, brödet, bröd, bröden.

Bröna to me is a slang term for 'breasts'...

They're perfectly normal in the regional accent of Standard Swedish here and not really dialectal, but they're not seen as part of that "clean" media version of the standard language either.

I think it's important to be able to recognise the forms though, just like with "ett trä, trät, trän, träna" as a parallel way of saying "ett träd, trädet, träd, träden".
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-01, 6:43

Hej alla! I haven't been actively studying Swedish for a little bit. But Meera and I have decided to study it together. So I'm turning this thread into Meera and my thread for Swedish. Our plan is to start with Duolingo Swedish and then move onto another resource. I have a Teach Yourself Complete Swedish but I'm not sure how good it is; I've never gone through it. Anyway, any help you all can give us with our journey to learn Swedish would be appreciated!
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-04, 5:20

So our goal for this week (July 3 - 9) is to get to the first checkpoint in Duo Swedish, which consists of 9 Skills: Basics, Basics 2, Phrases, Food, Animals, Definites, Plural, Possessives, Object Pronouns.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Allekanger » 2017-07-05, 20:26

dEhiN wrote:Hej alla! I haven't been actively studying Swedish for a little bit. But Meera and I have decided to study it together. So I'm turning this thread into Meera and my thread for Swedish. Our plan is to start with Duolingo Swedish and then move onto another resource. I have a Teach Yourself Complete Swedish but I'm not sure how good it is; I've never gone through it. Anyway, any help you all can give us with our journey to learn Swedish would be appreciated!

I used Colloquial Swedish when I taught Swedish online for a while many years ago. I liked how it showed you with underlines where to put the stress in sentences. I didn't get very far, but it seemed quite good. I am not familiar with the one you've mentioned though. I was never a fan of Duolingo, but I can see why people like it.

Anyway, good luck with the studies, to the both of you! Just ask away if there's anything you need help with, either through here, PM or Skype - whatever you feel is best :)
Når trollmora lagt di elva små trolla å bunde fast dom i svansen
Då sjunger o sakta för elva små trolla di vackresta orl o känner
O aj aj aj aj buff...


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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2017-07-05, 20:34

Allekanger wrote:I used Colloquial Swedish when I taught Swedish online for a while many years ago. I liked how it showed you with underlines where to put the stress in sentences. I didn't get very far, but it seemed quite good. I am not familiar with the one you've mentioned though. I was never a fan of Duolingo, but I can see why people like it.

I liked Colloquial Swedish. I worked my way through the whole book. It had well-written dialogues and interesting reading exercises and made frequent note of colloquial pronunciations.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Allekanger » 2017-07-05, 20:43

linguoboy wrote:I liked Colloquial Swedish. I worked my way through the whole book. It had well-written dialogues and interesting reading exercises and made frequent note of colloquial pronunciations.

Yes, exactly. I looked through it just now and the dialogues are indeed well-written - in a way people (myself included) would actually talk.
Når trollmora lagt di elva små trolla å bunde fast dom i svansen
Då sjunger o sakta för elva små trolla di vackresta orl o känner
O aj aj aj aj buff...


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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-09, 6:34

Allekanger wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I liked Colloquial Swedish. I worked my way through the whole book. It had well-written dialogues and interesting reading exercises and made frequent note of colloquial pronunciations.

Yes, exactly. I looked through it just now and the dialogues are indeed well-written - in a way people (myself included) would actually talk.

Which dialect does it use for its colloquial phrases and pronunciations? Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned but I think part of my brain says "you should first learn the standard language, including the written form, and then move onto the colloquial/dialectal/spoken forms".
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Meera » 2017-07-09, 16:04

dEhiN wrote:Hej alla! I haven't been actively studying Swedish for a little bit. But Meera and I have decided to study it together. So I'm turning this thread into Meera and my thread for Swedish. Our plan is to start with Duolingo Swedish and then move onto another resource. I have a Teach Yourself Complete Swedish but I'm not sure how good it is; I've never gone through it. Anyway, any help you all can give us with our journey to learn Swedish would be appreciated!


Hej! Jag lär mig svenska.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2017-07-09, 19:19

dEhiN wrote:Which dialect does it use for its colloquial phrases and pronunciations? Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned but I think part of my brain says "you should first learn the standard language, including the written form, and then move onto the colloquial/dialectal/spoken forms".

The dialects are rather dead today and the language is in a shift from fewer spelling-pronunciations to more spelling-pronunciations, so you do not have to worry, regardless of what the book uses.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-10, 5:04

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Which dialect does it use for its colloquial phrases and pronunciations? Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned but I think part of my brain says "you should first learn the standard language, including the written form, and then move onto the colloquial/dialectal/spoken forms".

The dialects are rather dead today and the language is in a shift from fewer spelling-pronunciations to more spelling-pronunciations, so you do not have to worry, regardless of what the book uses.

Tack så mycket!
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-07-10, 20:20

Don't go with the extreme bookish pronunciation as your template though. For example, only non-native speakers would ever say det är as /deːt ɛːr/ in normal speech, instead us natives use either /deː eː/ or /dɛː ɛː/.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-11, 2:55

I think Duolingo Swedish is mostly ok when it comes to pronunciation. When you click on a word, or press the button to repeat a phrase slowly, you get pronunciations like /ɔk/ och and /ɛːɾ/ är. But otherwise, I think normally it's said as /ɔ/ and /ɛː/ respectively.

So quick update: Meera and I weren't able to finish the first checkpoint by this past Sunday, so we're giving ourselves until this Sunday (July 16). I've so far completed Basics, Basics 2, and Phrases. I find it really helps me when I write out any new words in my notebook, into Anki, and on here (for example, on my TAC). So I might write out the words I/we have learned.

I do have one question though. In the Phrases skill, we learned both the words hej and hallå and both were translated as "hello, hi". Is there a difference between the two words? Is one not really used anymore? Or is one perhaps used specifically for answering the phone? I know hej can be used regularly, akin to the casual "hi" in English.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-11, 3:17

I have a second question, which I just remembered. Can the present tense in Swedish translate to the present progressive in English? I used to only think of, for example, äter as "eat/eats", but according to Duolingo a phrase like jag äter could be translated as "I am eating". However, Wiktionary does give a present participle for verbs.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2017-07-11, 19:05

dEhiN wrote:I do have one question though. In the Phrases skill, we learned both the words hej and hallå and both were translated as "hello, hi". Is there a difference between the two words? Is one not really used anymore? Or is one perhaps used specifically for answering the phone? I know hej can be used regularly, akin to the casual "hi" in English.

Hallå is a general word, while hej is used towards someone. A phone call might start as
-rrr
-hallå?
-hej det är x
-hej x!
...
...
-hej
-hej.
As you might see, hej is also used as "bye".

dEhiN wrote:I have a second question, which I just remembered. Can the present tense in Swedish translate to the present progressive in English? I used to only think of, for example, äter as "eat/eats", but according to Duolingo a phrase like jag äter could be translated as "I am eating". However, Wiktionary does give a present participle for verbs.

jag äter = I eat / I am eating / I do eat
ätande is not used like eating, it is more noun-ish "det var ett ätande som hette duga"
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2017-07-11, 20:17

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:ätande is not used like eating, it is more noun-ish "det var ett ätande som hette duga"

How would you translate something like, "They walked past us eating ice cream and laughing"?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-07-11, 20:32

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Hallå is a general word, while hej is used towards someone.

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:jag äter = I eat / I am eating / I do eat
ätande is not used like eating, it is more noun-ish "det var ett ätande som hette duga"

Tack Jurgen!

How is the -an pronounced when it's the definite article? For example, it sounded to me like in Duolingo, kvinna was pronounced something like /kvinːa/ while kvinnan as /kvinːɒn/. If that's the case, does this happen with flicka/flickan as well? I used to say both a's as /a/. What about the plural definite suffix -na, like in pojkarna, flickorna, kvinnorna? Is that an /a/ or /ɒ/? Wiktionary (at least the English version) doesn't give pronunciation info for the definite forms of nouns.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2017-07-12, 6:21

linguoboy wrote:How would you translate something like, "They walked past us eating ice cream and laughing"?

När de gick förbi oss åt de glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss medan de åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss när de åt glass och skrattade.
När de gick förbi oss höll de på och åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss och åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss, skrattande, ätande glass.

dEhiN wrote:How is the -an pronounced when it's the definite article? For example, it sounded to me like in Duolingo, kvinna was pronounced something like /kvinːa/ while kvinnan as /kvinːɒn/. If that's the case, does this happen with flicka/flickan as well? I used to say both a's as /a/. What about the plural definite suffix -na, like in pojkarna, flickorna, kvinnorna? Is that an /a/ or /ɒ/? Wiktionary (at least the English version) doesn't give pronunciation info for the definite forms of nouns.

In the Swedish that you are learning, it is /kvinːan/, but I can add that in older near-standard dialectal speech, it would regularly be /kvin:ɒ:/ with a long vowel and without the last n, but you do not need to know that.
indefinite /e: kvin:a/
definite /dœn: kvin:ɒ:/

Is that an /a/ or /ɒ/?

You always have /a/ if a short a. But in reality a long /ɒ:/ can be shortened due to its stress in a sentence and then sometimes keep its quality.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-07-12, 21:33

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
linguoboy wrote:How would you translate something like, "They walked past us eating ice cream and laughing"?

När de gick förbi oss åt de glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss medan de åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss när de åt glass och skrattade.
När de gick förbi oss höll de på och åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss och åt glass och skrattade.
De gick förbi oss, skrattande, ätande glass.

Crossed out what may be grammatical but no one would ever say. Actually, it's not grammatical, it looks like a way of forcing an English square peg into a Swedish round hole, and going with a hexagon as the compromise.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2017-07-25, 11:58

Johanna wrote:Crossed out what may be grammatical but no one would ever say. Actually, it's not grammatical, it looks like a way of forcing an English square peg into a Swedish round hole, and going with a hexagon as the compromise.

The point of discussion was rather when to use the present participle in Swedish. It is not a dead form, but not as frequent as in English. At present I recall only traffic stuff, such as "Den döde kom cyklande från vänster."

Den flytande kronan sjunker.
Flygande holländaren
Levande föda
Flygande tefat
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-05, 20:59

Hey all, so whenever I add an adjective to Anki, I look up and add the 4 main forms of it: the indefinite common singular, the indefinite neuter singular, the indefinite plural, and the definite. (I got the idea from Johanna). But I've never used all those forms for any adjective. So I'm going to try using them in some simple sentences. Please correct any mistakes. Tack så mycket!

1) Det är en snäll man.

2) Jag tycker om välkomna katten.

3) Jag pratar ett gammalt djur.

4) De är flera gifta kvinnor.
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