Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2017-08-05, 21:18

1) Det är en snäll man.

2) Jag tycker om [att] välkomna katten.

3) Jag pratar [om] ett gammalt djur.

4) De är flera gifta kvinnor.


Mening 4 ser konstig ut, så vad är det du menar med den?
Och mening 2 har inget adjektiv.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-05, 21:58

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
1) Det är en snäll man.

2) Jag tycker om [att] välkomna katten.

3) Jag pratar [om] ett gammalt djur.

4) De är flera gifta kvinnor.


Mening 4 ser konstig ut, så vad är det du menar med den?
Och mening 2 har inget adjektiv.

Isn't välkmona an adjective? Or do you mean that sentence two doesn't need an adjective? I specifically was trying to say "I love the welcome cat", that is a cat that is used for saying welcome, similar to a welcome sign. (I don't know the word for sign, so I used cat!).

I guess for sentence four, I was trying to use the indefinite plural form of the adjective. The best I came up with was "they are some married women". Though that probably is a little strange, even in English. Maybe I could just say ,"They are married women"? In which case would, "De är gifta kvinnor" work?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Osias » 2017-08-05, 23:43

dEhiN wrote:Hey all, so whenever I add an adjective to Anki, I look up and add the 4 main forms of it: the indefinite common singular, the indefinite neuter singular, the indefinite plural, and the definite. (I got the idea from Johanna). But I've never used all those forms for any adjective. So I'm going to try using them in some simple sentences. Please correct any mistakes. Tack så mycket!

1) Det är en snäll man.

2) Jag tycker om välkomna katten.

3) Jag pratar ett gammalt djur.

4) De är flera gifta kvinnor.

This adjective, whatever it is, seem to have 4 very dissimilar forms. :hmm:
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-06, 6:52

Osias wrote:This adjective, whatever it is, seem to have 4 very dissimilar forms. :hmm:

:D :D Well, no I used 4 different adjectives!
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2017-08-06, 15:50

dEhiN wrote:3) Jag pratar ett gammalt djur.

"I speak an old animal"?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-08-06, 20:12

What Jurgen means is that 2) has no infinitive. I suspect that his fingers got the better of him...

3) makes no sense in Swedish, nor in English, like linguoboy pointed out. Are you talking with or about the cat? Or even above or through it?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-07, 5:52

Johanna wrote:What Jurgen means is that 2) has no infinitive. I suspect that his fingers got the better of him...

3) makes no sense in Swedish, nor in English, like linguoboy pointed out. Are you talking with or about the cat? Or even above or through it?

Right, sorry about that; I meant to say "I'm speaking to an old animal". For some reason I didn't think I would need a preposition in Swedish!

Also I'm confused about question 2. If I want to say "I love the welcome sign" (or in my case "I love the welcome cat" since I don't know the word for sign), is what I said correct?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-08-07, 6:17

dEhiN wrote:
Johanna wrote:What Jurgen means is that 2) has no infinitive. I suspect that his fingers got the better of him...

3) makes no sense in Swedish, nor in English, like linguoboy pointed out. Are you talking with or about the cat? Or even above or through it?

Right, sorry about that; I meant to say "I'm speaking to an old animal". For some reason I didn't think I would need a preposition in Swedish!

The most natural way to put it in Swedish is to say that you talk or speak with the animal in question. So:

Jag talar med ett gammalt djur or Jag pratar med ett gammalt djur.

dEhiN wrote:Also I'm confused about question 2. If I want to say "I love the welcome sign" (or in my case "I love the welcome cat" since I don't know the word for sign), is what I said correct?

That is a compound made up from two nouns - the first part is "a/the welcome", not "to welcome" - so the whole thing becomes skewed. Välkomna is either the infinitive, "to welcome", or the past participle (plural and definite), although in "a sign that is welcome" it might count as an adjective? The past participle for any verb is often used like one in Swedish anyway, and you even conjugate it for gender, number and definiteness.

"a welcome sign" = en välkomstskylt (Remember, compounds in Swedish are always written as one word.)
"a sign that is welcome" = en välkommen skylt, en skylt som är välkommen (Sounds pretty weird though. I mean, how often do you find signs welcome?)

And no, you can't make a compound out of "a welcome" and "a cat" without people wondering what the heck you've been smoking :P

Edit: en skylt is only a physical sign, like the kind you find along roads. If you're looking for a divine sign or what makes up sign languages, the word is ett tecken.
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-07, 6:23

Johanna wrote:The most natural way to put it in Swedish is to say that you talk or speak with the animal in question, preferably the latter. So:

Jag talar med ett gammalt djur. or Jag pratar med ett gammalt djur.

Tack!

Johanna wrote:Välkomna is either the infinitive, "to welcome", or the past participle (plural and definite)

Isn't välkomna also the definite version of the adjective välkommen? It is at least according to Wiktionary. Then can you think of a situation where you would use the definite form of välkommen?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-08-07, 6:26

The adjective and the past participle are the same, so I'm never sure when it counts as what :oops:

In any case, I edited my answer a bit, so you should be able to see an example now :)

Edit: I looked into it a bit, and välkommen seems to only count as an adjective these days, although it uses an older past participle that is still in use for the verb att komma. The current past participle is välkomnad, välkomnat, välkomna (common gender, neuter, plural/definite).

Stupid dialectal interference :P
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-07, 6:36

Johanna wrote:"a welcome sign" = en välkomstskylt (Remember, compounds in Swedish are always written as one word.)
"a sign that is welcome" = en välkommen skylt, en skylt som är välkommen (Sounds pretty weird though. I mean, how often do you find signs welcome?)

Okej, so now I have two more follow-up questions:

1) What's the difference in meaning, connotation, or usage between en välkomstskylt and en välkommen skylt? For me, as an English speaker, I want to naturally associate the second phrase with the English phrase "a welcome sign" and assume the first one is something else entirely, like a special kind of sign.

2) So if I want to say "the welcome sign", like for example "I love the welcome sign", could I say jag älskar välkomnaskylten? Or jag älskar välkomna skylten?
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-08-07, 6:54

Is it "a welcome-sign" or "a welcome sign"? The way you stress the words I mean.

In this case, I assume you meant the former, which means it's a compound made up from two nouns, it's not an adjective modifying a noun, which you seem to constantly confuse it with. And yeah, it is a special kind of sign, one that tells you "welcome" rather than one you are happy to lay your eyes upon.

So, if it is indeed a compound, everything except the very last part stays the same. And that last part is conjugated just like it is if it were to stand on its own.

en skylt - skylten - skyltar - skyltarna
en välkomstskylt - välkomstskylten - välkomstskyltar - välkomstskyltarna

The tricky part is making the compound in the first place. For this word it's easy since you just stick the two nouns together, but the cognate of "warehouse", varuhus, uses an old, frozen genitive (vara -> varu), and "table cloth", bordsduk is made up from noun + modern possessive clitic + noun. Or it is to our modern eyes anyway, depending on the noun in question, it may very well be the old frozen genitive that the modern clitic is based on :P
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2017-08-07, 21:08

Johanna wrote:Is it "a welcome-sign" or "a welcome sign"? The way you stress the words I mean.

In this case, I assume you meant the former, which means it's a compound made up from two nouns, it's not an adjective modifying a noun, which you seem to constantly confuse it with. And yeah, it is a special kind of sign, one that tells you "welcome" rather than one you are happy to lay your eyes upon.

Yes you're right; I do keep confusing them. I think it might be a carryover from my grade school grammar days, but I initially analyse most compound nouns as being able to be broken down into adjective + noun.

Tack så mycket for all the help!
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Johanna » 2017-08-09, 3:27

English is tricky that way ;)

Och det var så lite :)
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Re: Meera and dEhiN's Swedish Thread

Postby Meera » 2017-10-09, 1:36

I am still using duo for Swedish but I think soon I am going to have to find a good coursebook for it.
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