Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

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lyzazel
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Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby lyzazel » 2016-12-12, 2:16

Hej alla! Hur mår ni?

I know Swedish conjugation is probably not the hardest nut to crack for Swedish learners (I, for one, did not have many particular problems with conjugation when learning the language in Stockholm), but we have been making verb conjugators with lots of examples and grammatical info in different languages, and we decided to make one in Swedish too, which I would like to present to you: http://cooljugator.com/sv

The conjugator gives you approximate English translations and multiple examples of each verb and almost each of its forms (at least for common verbs), so it serves not only as a purely grammatical reference but also provides usage info. Moreover, it also has a list of Swedish verbs and translations.

We are also working on including a more accurate list of verbs on the top page - the current list is sort of random and pulled for demonstration purposes only. Regardless, you can still use the search bar on the top, which should find any form.

I would appreciate your feedback to see if we can make this resource better for Swedish learners.

Tack!
Check out my project with interlinear translations (or, you could say, 'subtitled books') at Interlinear Books

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hashi
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby hashi » 2016-12-12, 3:09

First thing I immediately noticed was "skrifva" xD Should be "skriva" if you meant "to write". A lot of its conjugations are also incorrect (eg. "skrif" for imperative instead of "skriv").

The same mistake appears to have been applied to "blifva" also. Additionally, some words have incorrect infinitives (like "lär" instead of "lära". Speaking of, will you also have the transitive verbs include "sig" (or "mig" for the "jag ___" versions)?

(I note that "lär" means "learn" on your site. This is not entirely correct as "lära" means "teach", "lära sig" is "learn")

Do you think it would also be useful to include the participles as well? (eg. "åka" > "åkande").

Furthermore, is there a reason you're not able to highlight/select the conjugated text? I mean, if you're wanting people to use this for conjugation, surely you'd be able to highlight to be able to copy and paste into text instead of having to memorise/transcribe manually?

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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby h34 » 2016-12-12, 4:09

hashi wrote:First thing I immediately noticed was "skrifva" xD Should be "skriva" if you meant "to write". A lot of its conjugations are also incorrect (eg. "skrif" for imperative instead of "skriv").

The same mistake appears to have been applied to "blifva" also.

As far as I know, -fv- between vowels and -f in word-final position (instead of -v-) is an old spelling, as in the name of the newspaper Hufvudstadsbladet.
Thanks for all corrections!

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Jurgen Wullenwever
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2016-12-12, 18:49

The information on that site seems very odd, really, with lots of both obsolete archaisms and faults. I wonder what sources they have used.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby hashi » 2016-12-13, 0:25

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:The information on that site seems very odd, really, with lots of both obsolete archaisms and faults. I wonder what sources they have used.

I did wonder that myself.

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lyzazel
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby lyzazel » 2016-12-13, 21:11

Hi.

Thanks for the feedback, very helpful.

First, we do have skriva as well - http://cooljugator.com/sv/skriva - but I can see how the fact that 'skrifva' is listed on the main page might confuse you. Same for 'bliva' : http://cooljugator.com/sv/bliva

We used a script to select the most common verbs by searching for their translations, but we did not think to optimise enough to select the more common one among verbs with the same translation, thus essentially our script just picked the first verb it could find with a given translation - so some archaic versions of verbs exist. This problem only concerns the front page of some languages, however, and it is scheduled to be resolved soon. Mowever, we have optimised that part for search purposes, so if you search 'write' in the search bar above, you will get 'skriva' first (and that counts for all the other verbs). See:
Image

We should probably really change the list on the top page, as I can see why that confused you.

A good comment about 'lär', although, as I understand, learn can be used to mean 'to teach' in English in a somewhat odd sense (like: 'let me learn you how to do this properly'? But we should probably change it to 'teach' for clarity regardless.

It's true some of our sources are oldish and translations a bit rough - in order not to infringe anyone's copyright, we used older public domain resources or those freely available online, and therefore there might be some issues and older forms with them. Importantly, we have tried to make sure that the old forms are supplemented by newer ones (thus both 'skriva' and 'bliva' and 'bli').

Thanks for the suggestion on participles! We will consider including them on the next site update!

In regards to highlighting the text - that should work. It works on my browsers (see the highlight in the screenshot). Which browser / os are you using?
Image

Thanks for all the feedback, and please keep it coming! We'll try to make the resource better based on this.
Check out my project with interlinear translations (or, you could say, 'subtitled books') at Interlinear Books

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hashi
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby hashi » 2016-12-13, 23:59

Why don't you consider having user-inputted information rather than relying on freely available sources (which are outdated and possibly incorrect)? I know you couldn't possibly have every single verb ever that way, but really the tool is mainly used for the more commonly used verbs? Or a mixture of both? (eg. using the free resources to populate the database, but then having someone verify the information/fix mistakes prior to it being published).

Regarding the highlighting, I just realised that I can in fact highlight them, but it may be that if there's customised highlight colour (through CSS) that its not showing correctly in my browser and its not defaulting to the browser default. Or possibly the colour is too similar to the background to be seen on some screens? I'm using Firefox in Windows 7 currently if that helps.

I just noticed in the screenshot you provided with the drop down that there was a participle listed. Did I miss that originally, or something else? lol

I'm just being picky here, but I also find the hover-over bubble that says (for example) "The future forms of the verb skriva in Swedish" to be a bit redundant and obstructive. I mean, there's already a heading for the section that says "Future tense", and it's clearly Swedish, so why the need to repeat this in a pop up bubble?

Regarding "lär", yes "learn" can be used like that in English, but I feel it'd be more thorough to include the transitive forms also, since these don't always mean the same thing. Eg. "ge" means "to give", but "ge sig" means to "give up/surrender". (That and my main point about "lär" was that it was missing the final -a for its infinitive form - probably another symptom of using free sources :P). And just to complicate it more, there are prepositional verb combinations like "ge sig av" (which means "leave, depart, go away from").

Just curious, how are the various conjugations stored? Are they static in a database (ie. you have "skriva" and all its forms saved), or does it conjugate them on the fly based on known patterns, but with irregular ones statically defined? I'm not sure what your plans are with other languages, but consider for example Japanese, where there are significantly more conjugation possibilities, but where they are 99% regular. You could save yourself a considerable amount of work if they are produced dynamically.

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lyzazel
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby lyzazel » 2016-12-30, 22:47

These are great points! We've now made a blog post explaining some of these things: http://cooljugator.com/blog/2016/12/16/ ... rs-mission

We are considering introducing quality scores for unverified content - hopefully that can work. Currently the mission is to get more content out there, and we will work on refining it later - although we do want to make it clear to all the users that some inconsistencies might exist until then.

I've tried the highlight on a couple of devices, and you're right it's not clear enough. We have now changed the highlight colour to blue, and the change should apply site-wide: please let me know if that works better!

Yup, the participle is listed in the search tool (we've added it), but not on the site yet. :) Might do so with another edition.

You're right the hover-over is not terribly useful for many of these instances - do you think there's a way we could make its text more helpful?

I've added 'teach' as a clarification for lär for now. We'll probably replace it to 'teach' altogether in a next edition (we will have to regenerate that page).

Yup, all the conjugations are stored statically. We have conjugation scripts developed for some languages, those scripts are both systematic and ad hoc - depends on the language, really. We do have some scripts for Japanese too - it's true that the regular nature of the language makes it easy. :)
Check out my project with interlinear translations (or, you could say, 'subtitled books') at Interlinear Books

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hashi
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Re: Swedish verb conjugations and many examples resource

Postby hashi » 2017-01-06, 0:28

Ah yes, the highlighting colour is much better now - thanks :)

Re: the hover box. I don't really think so to be honest; I think the most sensible option would be to remove it all together since its not really providing any new information and any needed/relevant information is already on the page.


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