Svenskt uttal / Swedish pronunciation

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby dEhiN » 2014-05-30, 22:43

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
dEhiN wrote:But I think mostly I didn't expect there to be so much dialectical variation. After all the discussion about dialect pronunciations, I'm kinda confused on which pronunciation I should learn and stick with for the vowel sounds.

The dialectal variation is VERY small these days, so you do not have to bother about local differences, since they are mostly in intonation of sentences. You do have to decide between Southern Swedish (Scanian) and Central Swedish, but I suppose you are heading for Central Swedish.


Yeah I'm going for Central Swedish.
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby dEhiN » 2014-05-30, 22:49

Johanna wrote:I wouldn't worry about getting the exact pronunciation of vowels right for one single accent, since when you've got rid of all the other things that betray that you're not a native speaker, you will most likely have picked up an accent along the way without thinking :)

Thanks Johanna, that helps put my mind at ease.


Johanna wrote:Otherwise, the standard pronunciation is usually said to be this:

a - [ɑː], [ä]
e - [eː], [ɛ]
i - [iː], [ɪ]
o - [uː], [ʊ]
u - [ʉ̟ː], [ɵ]
y - [yː], [ʏ]
å - [oː], [ɔ]
ä - [ɛː], [ɛ]
ö - [øː], [œ]


Going by how Swedes think of the pronunciation of these vowels because of the letters' names in the alphabet. But as you probably already know, ⟨o⟩ can be /oː/, /ɔ/ too.

That helps me greatly. As for alphabet names, I'm still getting used to them. Again, for some reason with the vowels mostly, my brain keeps defaulting to the English alphabet names.
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-31, 10:50

For my part, I am curious about whether you (all of you) will be able to distinguish these vowels in speech. Some learners do not bother, but just make their own simplified version, which works for them, but that seems so defeatist, and it should not be that hard to learn them.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Grytolle » 2014-05-31, 13:44

Wow, you just blew my mind with i and äj being pronounced the same, Jurgen :lol:

Pronouncing /sj/ like an English /wh/ like someone suggested above is a very good idea if you have troubles learning the sound perfectly. As long as you have the w-element (=rounded lips), it doesn't matter much whether the rest of it is a sh-sound or an [x]-sound, as long as it doesn't get pronounced so far ahead in your mouth as a /tj/.

Johanna, do you really say "fascist" with a ([x]-ish) /sj/? It doesn't sound familiar to me like dusja or garasj. :hmm:

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Johanna » 2014-05-31, 13:52

Grytolle wrote:Johanna, do you really say "fascist" with a ([x]-ish) /sj/? It doesn't sound familiar to me like dusja or garasj. :hmm:

Me no, but I had a teacher who did, she was from the Halmstad area somewhere.

I'm also pretty sure that I've heard people from the northern part of the country use [ʂ] in that word, and I doubt any Finland-Swede would use an affricate.
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby TeneReef » 2014-05-31, 14:57

dEhiN wrote:
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
dEhiN wrote:But I think mostly I didn't expect there to be so much dialectical variation. After all the discussion about dialect pronunciations, I'm kinda confused on which pronunciation I should learn and stick with for the vowel sounds.

The dialectal variation is VERY small these days, so you do not have to bother about local differences, since they are mostly in intonation of sentences. You do have to decide between Southern Swedish (Scanian) and Central Swedish, but I suppose you are heading for Central Swedish.


Yeah I'm going for Central Swedish.


Just make sure you get the tones right. :wink:
And don't overdo the 2nd tone (like most foreigners attempting at East Central Swedish do).
In Sweden, the ''tamest'' (flattest) tones (and overall intonation) are found in Småland (because it's a region bordering three 3 completely different dialectal/intonational areas, which led to softening of all three influences and mixing them into some cute mix).
Some TTS programs offer different voices for Swedish (for example this one http://www.acapela-group.com/
: I got a Scanian voice, a Göta voice and a Stockholm voice (I didn't get the Finland Swedish voice)).

The problem with Swedish: no two Swedes speak the same. :doggy:
So the best approach is choose one person, and copy their accent. :mrgreen:
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To all you guys learning Swedish, which word sounds the sexiest to you, when pronounced by the Swedes?
I love the word Lund [lɵnd]. :oops:
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-31, 15:19

Grytolle wrote:Wow, you just blew my mind with i and äj being pronounced the same, Jurgen

You have not heard that one? I have even seen it spelt from time to time, i.e. Peja/Pia.

I seem to have that pronunciation too, actually.

It is a Maelardalian thing, but it might be closely related to the diphthongisation of four long vowels in Southern Swedish (which I myself acquired in my teens when laying off the following fricatives for some odd reason):

u > öu
o > öo
i > äi
y > öy
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby TeneReef » 2014-05-31, 15:52

How do you like it? :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZUgt6R7iY

I've heard synthetic voices are used for announcing an arriving train in Sweden. :mrgreen:
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Grytolle » 2014-05-31, 17:54

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
Grytolle wrote:Wow, you just blew my mind with i and äj being pronounced the same, Jurgen

You have not heard that one? I have even seen it spelt from time to time, i.e. Peja/Pia.

I seem to have that pronunciation too, actually.

It is a Maelardalian thing, but it might be closely related to the diphthongisation of four long vowels in Southern Swedish (which I myself acquired in my teens when laying off the following fricatives for some odd reason):

u > öu
o > öo
i > äi
y > öy

I just never realized that they can sound the same :-) Pronounced "mejl" like "mil" in my head and it sounded OK as long as I didn't use my normal i

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-31, 19:37

TeneReef wrote:How do you like it?

I lost my breath and felt insane and wanted to flee, actually. It would be horrible to hear that for any prolonged time. :shock:
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-31, 19:44

Grytolle wrote:it sounded OK as long as I didn't use my normal i

And your normal i is of what character, pray tell, "viby-i" or "normalsvenskt i" or similar to "utländskt i"?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Grytolle » 2014-05-31, 21:47


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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby TeneReef » 2014-05-31, 22:05

Pay attention to this word: :wink:

http://www.forvo.com/word/kanske/
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby TeneReef » 2014-05-31, 22:07

Grytolle wrote:You tell me! http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ftiorOk1UU :mrgreen:


It sounds a bit Vibysh, but not too Vibysh.
I can't do a Viby-i without flexing my platysma (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platysma).

I found this diagram very useful:
Image
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-06-01, 7:55

I do not understand what the diagram depicts, and "normal/hard/softened" do not exactly convey any real information concerning what particular sounds are shown. :| How is it useful? :?:

How can a [x] be described as "normal h"? :?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby TeneReef » 2014-06-01, 9:07

I guess it's a vague layman explanation, from this blog: http://kamykk.wordpress.com/
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Johanna » 2014-06-01, 13:55

And why is there an arrow from 'sj' to the affricate, when that one is the Finland-Swedish realisation of the tj-sound and has nothing to do with the sj-sound :?
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby jahimees » 2014-06-04, 18:48

Hej allihopa!

Kan ni rätta mitt uttal? Jag har lärt mig svenska sedan jag var 13 år. Då min familj bor där tyckte jag att det skulle vara väldigt konstigt att inte kunna kommunicera med dem. Jag vet inte om det överhuvudtaget är något slags accent. Jag lärde mig det här uttalet under min vistelse i södra Sverige. Texten som jag läser, kommer från http://swedia.ling.gu.se/. Länken till ljudfilen finns nedan.


http://vocaroo.com/i/s0t5QWpntr5E
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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-06-04, 21:02

jahimees wrote:Hej allihopa!

Kan ni rätta mitt uttal? Jag har lärt mig svenska sedan jag var 13 år. Då min familj bor där tyckte jag att det skulle vara väldigt konstigt att inte kunna kommunicera med dem. Jag vet inte om det överhuvudtaget är något slags accent. Jag lärde mig det här uttalet under min vistelse i södra Sverige. Texten som jag läser, kommer från http://swedia.ling.gu.se/. Länken till ljudfilen finns nedan.


http://vocaroo.com/i/s0t5QWpntr5E

Jag antar att du var i Blekinge eller runtikring där. Den accenten är ovan för mig, så vid en första genomlyssning märkte jag inte ens att det var en utländsk brytning, möjligen med undantag för att du låter litet för jämn i satsbetoningen, så det ger ett lite plattare intryck än normalt, och att du uttalar vissa stumma ljud, men det är ju vanligare bland yngre nuförtiden.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Swedish Pronunciation [formerly 'Swedish r']

Postby jahimees » 2014-06-04, 21:16

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
jahimees wrote:Hej allihopa!

Kan ni rätta mitt uttal? Jag har lärt mig svenska sedan jag var 13 år. Då min familj bor där tyckte jag att det skulle vara väldigt konstigt att inte kunna kommunicera med dem. Jag vet inte om det överhuvudtaget är något slags accent. Jag lärde mig det här uttalet under min vistelse i södra Sverige. Texten som jag läser, kommer från http://swedia.ling.gu.se/. Länken till ljudfilen finns nedan.


http://vocaroo.com/i/s0t5QWpntr5E

Jag antar att du var i Blekinge eller runtikring där. Den accenten är ovan för mig, så vid en första genomlyssning märkte jag inte ens att det var en utländsk brytning, möjligen med undantag för att du låter litet för jämn i satsbetoningen, så det ger ett lite plattare intryck än normalt, och att du uttalar vissa stumma ljud, men det är ju vanligare bland yngre nuförtiden.


Tack för ditt omdöme! :) Jag vet att det inte är utmärkt men jag gör min bästa för att förbättra det. Det är alltid viktigt när en person som har svenska som sitt modersmål visar sin synpunkt och uppfattning samt rättar ens fel.
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