Moderator:Johanna
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
onlyhuman wrote:I think this is an interesting conversation.
Some years ago I was obsessed with Swedish and Sweden in general. After studying Swedish at home and adult high school I was so proud of myself I could communicate with Swedes in simple and small sentences.The only place in Sweden I've seen so far is Göteborg and I thought the r-sound there was similar to the r in here in southern Germany.
Well, I gave Swedish up because of the sj-sound. It's just a sound that I simply can't reproduce, no matter how har I try. Some strange sound like our sch or h comes out of my mouth all the time. I do actually recognize the sj-sound when I heard it but I just can't pronounce it. Words like stjärna are either "scherna" or "huerna" in my mouth
mōdgethanc wrote:It's a voiceless trill? What?
onlyhuman wrote:So, tell me how you cope with the "sj" sound? I'm just curious and open for hints.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
Johanna wrote:The sj-sound varies a lot between accents, and even though in most of Sweden it's a big mess there are ways to get around it and find something that's both not too hard to wrap your tongue around and won't leave you wondering what type of sj-sound to use in that specific word Like these:
• Pronouncing the sj-sound like [x] and the tj-sound like [ɕ] or [ʃ], like they do in the southernmost part of Sweden.
• Pronouncing the sj-sound like [ʂ] and the tj-sound like [ɕ] or [ʃ], like they do in the northernmost part of Sweden.
• Pronouncing the sj-sound like [ɕ] or [ʃ] ([ʂ] might be a possibility as well, but I'm not sure) and the tj-sound like [t͡ɕ] or [t͡ʃ], like they do in Finland.
And even though they're this different, no one will have any trouble understanding you as long as you're consistent.
dEhiN wrote:1) Apart from sj and stj (or is it just tj?), are there any other consonant clusters that have their own unique sound?
onlyhuman wrote:Juergen, would you be so kind and make a recording of your pronunciation, please? Maybe some words with the sj-sound?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.
onlyhuman wrote:How is it pronounced in your dialect, Johanna?
Johanna wrote:onlyhuman wrote:How is it pronounced in your dialect, Johanna?
I speak one of the messy ones And my every-day Swedish is a regional form of Standard Swedish rather than the actual dialect of my area, although I can speak that too, but they don't really differ when it comes to the sj-sound and tj-sound anyway
I have two main ways of pronouncing the sj-sound, and they're simply 'back' and 'front'. The back one is [x], the front one can be [ɕ] or [ʃ] (possibly [ʂ] as well, I'm not sure), depending on exactly what sounds are next to it and where in the syllable you find it.
I use the back one when it's the first sound of a word root, in medial position anything goes, and in final position the front one rules supreme. As for the tj-sound, it's completely merged with the front sj-sound.
This works since it's only in initial position using the tj-sound instead of the sj-sound makes any difference in meaning, and this is also the most common way by far, and what you hear in media the most. The problem for learners is that there's no way to know which words get a front sj-sound medially and which get a back one, not to mention that that differs a bit depending on where in the country you are.
I made a recording: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/459 ... /Sj-tj.mp3
skina, människa, kanske, garage, känsla
Johanna wrote:onlyhuman wrote:How is it pronounced in your dialect, Johanna?
I speak one of the messy ones And my every-day Swedish is a regional form of Standard Swedish rather than the actual dialect of my area, although I can speak that too, but they don't really differ when it comes to the sj-sound and tj-sound anyway
I have two main ways of pronouncing the sj-sound, and they're simply 'back' and 'front'. The back one is [x], the front one can be [ɕ] or [ʃ] (possibly [ʂ] as well, I'm not sure), depending on exactly what sounds are next to it and where in the syllable you find it.
I use the back one when it's the first sound of a word root, in medial position anything goes, and in final position the front one rules supreme. As for the tj-sound, it's completely merged with the front sj-sound.
This works since it's only in initial position using the tj-sound instead of the sj-sound makes any difference in meaning, and this is also the most common way by far, and what you hear in media the most. The problem for learners is that there's no way to know which words get a front sj-sound medially and which get a back one, not to mention that that differs a bit depending on where in the country you are.
I made a recording: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/459 ... /Sj-tj.mp3
skina, människa, kanske, garage, känsla
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:dEhiN wrote:1) Apart from sj and stj (or is it just tj?), are there any other consonant clusters that have their own unique sound?
The spelling is not to be trusted. Stj is the same as sj, and there is a large number of other spellings for the sj-sound.
In addition to the ordinary latin letter sounds, b d f g h j k l m n p r s t v, Central Swedish has back sj, front sj, tj, ng, rs, rt, rn, rl, rd, thick l.
The vowel inventory is often ranged from seven short and nine long up to fourteen short and fourteen long.
All those might not appear together for any one person.onlyhuman wrote:Juergen, would you be so kind and make a recording of your pronunciation, please? Maybe some words with the sj-sound?
I will try as soon as possible.
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