Southern Sweden

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Dingbats
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Postby Dingbats » 2007-05-23, 20:03

Oh, that /r/. I always assumed it was a speech impediment... I've only ever heard that one you posted a picture of use it, and maybe a couple others. Many of my peers are from Stockholm, and that's just half an hour from here anyway, so I hear people from there's speech a lot.

EDIT: The sound sample you posted is a pure alveolar approximant, as in English... that's got nothing to do with palatal. And the "palatal" /r/ that woman has is not the same as the one in that sample anyway, its much closer to being purely palatal.

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0stsee
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Re: Shift

Postby 0stsee » 2007-05-30, 17:44

Hunef wrote:
Dingbats wrote:
Hunef wrote:BTW, it's not the trilling r which is winning terrain, but rather the "Stockholm" r which is like a palatal r. This is why more and more swedes say something that sounds like e.g. "jymden" 'the space' instead of rymden.

Palatal?? The only /r/ I hear around here is a raised alveolar approximant. Sound files of that palatal /r/?

You're from Gustavsberg, not Stockholm. The "palatal" r I am referring to is the same as the Faroese r, that is, the one described in this article. Sound sample of the "palatal" r from the article can be downloaded here. The reason why this phoneme is somewhat incorrectly called "palatal" is obvious. How would you explain the r ~ j confusion as in e.g. jymden which many Stockholmers definitely say, e.g. Emma Gray Munthe the movie reviewer?
    Image
    Emma Gray Munthe, Stockholmer, who uses a typical Stockholmish r of the slightly exaggerated j-like version.


I haven't heard the sound file, and I don't have much idea about phonetics, but I think I know which R you mean, the one that sounds in the direction of J.


Mark

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óðinn
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Re: Shift

Postby óðinn » 2007-06-06, 17:48

0stsee wrote:
Johanna wrote:
0stsee wrote:And that the tendency to shift is already visible in Lund, which is located pretty deep in the South.

Lund is a special case since one of the biggest universities in Sweden is located there, so a lot of the inhabitants aren't even from Scania originally.


You also see this phenomenon in Tübingen, or other university cities in Southern Germany, I guess.
So that the young people in Tübingen are starting to speak Hochdeutsch with barely an "accent", and the process is even pretty much completed in München, so that among Müncheners 25 years and younger, you wouldn't even know they come from Bavaria if they hadn't told you.


So is this process actually happening and noticeable in Southern Sweden as well, in view of younger people abandoning the Tungrots-R?
(In München it's the other way around, they don't use the typical Bavarian Zungen-R anymore).


Mark


That's a shame there is no dialect as awsome as Bavarian no wonder Hitler was such a good speaker it must has been his cool high german dialect.

Seriously Boarisch [bavaraian] rocks!

Listen to this: http://www3.germanistik.uni-halle.de/prinz/sprachen/094.htm

Hochdeutsch is ugly in comparison with it's crappy french R, soft ach and the lack of a difference between long ei [former i:] and ei [former eI].

Boarisch wrote:Ah, kloaner Prinz, so noch und noch hob i die kloans traurigs Lebm vostandn. A lange Zeit host du koa andere Abwechslung ghot ois wia d Freid an de scheena Sonneuntergang. Dees is mia am viertn Tog in da Friah aafganga, wiast zu mir gsogt host: I hob d Sonnenuntergang so gern.


The new swedish palatal R is ugly as well it sounds like babytalk but then again they say that evulotion is always good but I still think that Dinosaurs were way cooler than birds. :lol:

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Re: Shift

Postby Travis B. » 2007-07-25, 4:49

óðinn wrote:Hochdeutsch is ugly in comparison with it's crappy french R, soft ach and the lack of a difference between long ei [former i:] and ei [former eI].


Hey - I myself like the uvular R used here in my weirdass English dialect (as opposed to the comparatively soft alveolar and postalveolar Rs typical of most English dialects). It's not exactly the French R, though, as it normally is an approximant unless I emphasize it, but it's close enough alright.
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Re:

Postby TeneReef » 2012-10-03, 23:48

Bjarn wrote:There are two women and a man.
I would think people from Skåne would retain that R, regardless of age.


Eric Saade is from this area, but he speaks with an alveolar R.
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Johanna
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Re: Re:

Postby Johanna » 2012-10-04, 1:37

TeneReef wrote:
Bjarn wrote:There are two women and a man.
I would think people from Skåne would retain that R, regardless of age.

Eric Saade is from this area, but he speaks with an alveolar R.

Look at the Scanians as the Lowland Scots of Sweden when it comes to the rhotic consonant ;)

Most will retain the traditional rhotic consonant of the area, but some will try to use the one of the current national capital. Also, that most have to move to Stockholm, or at least work there, doesn't help in keeping their native dialect.
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Re: Southern Sweden

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2012-10-04, 16:58

A few generations back, Scanian did not have the back r, so it is not that traditional.
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