Slovenski Kotiček (Slovenian Corner)

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Fenek
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Slovenski Kotiček (Slovenian Corner)

Postby Fenek » 2003-09-12, 10:26

To je kotiček za tiste, ki se učijo slovenščino.
Žal še ni "učitelja" - Slovenca, ki bi popravljal napake :(
Jaz malo govorim slovensko. Učim se slovenščino eno leto.
Last edited by Fenek on 2004-05-10, 13:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-12, 10:35

This is the corner for those who learn Slovene.
Unfortunately, there's no "teacher" (Slovenian who'd correct mistakes) yet :(
I can speak Slovene a little. I've been learning Slovene for a year.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-09-12, 12:55

Dober dan, Fenek!

Thanks for creating this Slovene corner! I'd be glad to participate! I'll invite Car and some other members who were interested as well...Hope we can have nice discussions here! I'll try and find some links for learning Slovenian later!
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Postby Car » 2003-09-12, 20:42

Great!

I already wanted to ask Expug again about the Slovenian books, but now I can ask everyone who's interested here. Any books to learn the language that are good? Any dictionaries?

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-09-13, 12:26

Car: Try the traditional Teach Yourself and Coloquial...they're written by the same author...Oh, and at these books the language is called Slovene, so it's Teach Yourself Slovene and Colloquial Slovene.

Fenek, does Slovenian has the phonem written in Russian with the letter bI? Is it spelt "ij"?

I've noticed that Slovenian does use the verb to be in the present...
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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-14, 7:47

Car wrote:I already wanted to ask Expug again about the Slovenian books, but now I can ask everyone who's interested here. Any books to learn the language that are good? Any dictionaries?


I'm afraid I can't help you much with this matter. I caught a glimpse of an array of Slovenian books for learning Slovene, but I didn't get to know them well enough to evaluate them. The book I use is quite good, but I don't have its cover, hence I don't know its authors.
I think a German-Slovene dictionary would be the most convenient for you. I'm sure you could easily find a lot of German-Slovene dictionaries in Slovenia. I don't know about their availability in Germany.
Last edited by Fenek on 2003-09-16, 12:32, edited 2 times in total.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-14, 7:57

E}{pugnator wrote:Fenek, does Slovenian has the phonem written in Russian with the letter bI? Is it spelt "ij"?


No, there's no phoneme "bI".
"ij" is pronounced either as [j], that is to say, as non-syllabic [i] (when unstressed), or as [ij] (when stressed)

E}{pugnator wrote:I've noticed that Slovenian does use the verb to be in the present...


As do all Western and South Slavic languages.
Last edited by Fenek on 2003-09-16, 12:33, edited 1 time in total.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-14, 8:30

Daniel wrote:Indeed, here is the list of the present tense of the Slovene verb 'to be':


The list is correct, but incomplete, because there are three numbers in Slovene: singular, dual and plural. Let me add dual forms.

jaz sem - I am
ti si - you are
on/ona/ono je - he/she is
midva/medve sva - we-two are
vidva/vedve sta - you-two are
onadva/onidve/onedve sta - they-two are
mi/me smo - we are
vi/ve ste - you are
oni/one/ona so - they are

jaz nisem
ti nisi
on ni
midva nisva
vidva nista
onadva nista
mi nismo
vi niste
oni niso
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-15, 11:34

A few facts about Slovene:
Slovene is spoken by about 2 million people (1.8 million in Slovenia, 100 thousand in Italy, 40 thousand in Austria).
There are many dialects of Slovene, and they are quite different from each other. Of course, there is also literary language, Standard Slovene.
Slovene is classified as belonging to the South Branch of the Slavic languages, but it shares many characteristics of the Western Slavic languages.
The closest to Slovene are Serbocroatian and Slovak.
For centuries Slovene was under the strong influence of German and this influence is clearly visible in the vocabulary.

Slovene has the smallest number of consonants of all the Slavic languages (22). In comparison with other Slavic languages, there are few palatalized consonants. Many Slovene dialects have melodic stress (similar to the Serbocroatian melodic stress), but Standard Slovene has not.
In Slovene there are 2 aspects (perfective and imperfective, as in all Slavic languages), 3 tenses, 6 cases. A specific trait of Slovene is that it has preserved the dual number, so there are three grammatical numbers: singular, dual and plural.
Last edited by Fenek on 2003-09-16, 12:35, edited 2 times in total.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-15, 12:31

Daniel wrote:Don't forget the three genders that Slovene possesses! Masculine, feminine and neuter! :lol: :wink:


Right, this is worth mentioning too :)
Last edited by Fenek on 2003-09-17, 19:49, edited 2 times in total.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
Vi sarò molto grato per ogni correzione!
Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby Car » 2003-09-15, 12:35

Fenek wrote:I think a German-Slovene dictionary would be the most convenient for you. I'm sure you could easily find a lot of German-Slovene dictionaries in Slovenia, I don't know what about their availability in Germany.


I already looked and it seems that neither in Germany nor in Austria, many dictionaries are available. Just a few and I know one of them will definitely not be sufficient enough (too small).

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-09-15, 12:40

Daniel, do invite your Slovenian friend to Unilang!
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Postby pa-integral » 2003-09-17, 11:13

Hey! I'm back from Slovenia!

I loved that country. I bought:

- An English - Slovene dictionary
- A Slovene Basic Phrase Book
- The Colloquial Slovene (that thick book!)


I was impressed to see that someone opened an Slovene Course in VSL when I was in Slovenia! So when I came back, it was a great surprise.

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-09-19, 8:25

Živio!

This Slovenian Corner seems to be a bit dead... I finished reading the first lesson of my book Colloquial Slovene, and I had some doubts about it >>

1. How do you actually know when a v is pronounced /w/, /u/ or /v/? How is it pronounced when it goes alone in a sentence?

2. How do you know what's the strong syllab of a word? Actually, I read that was not possible to know, but... how am I supposed to discover it?

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Postby Car » 2003-09-19, 9:10

pa-integral wrote:1. How do you actually know when a v is pronounced /w/, /u/ or /v/? How is it pronounced when it goes alone in a sentence?

2. How do you know what's the strong syllab of a word? Actually, I read that was not possible to know, but... how am I supposed to discover it?


1. The World Gazetteer says:
standard 'v'
Slovene: at the end of word or before consonant like English 'w' "
.

2. I think the way to discover it is listening, listening and listening...

@Daniel and pa: Could you, if it's possible for you, tell me what you like about the "Colloquial" book and what you dislike? TIA!

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-09-19, 9:25

Car wrote:@Daniel and pa: Could you, if it's possible for you, tell me what you like about the "Colloquial" book and what you dislike? TIA!

I only have Colloquial Slovene, not TYSlovene, so I can't compare it to anything, but I'll try to give you my opinion.

I bought Colloquial Slovene (I think the price was 30E) without tapes, just the book. It is similar to Teach Yoursealf books I have seen: usually there's 3 dialogs per lesson, although they doesn't follow a story, just different dialogs. There are some drawings, but not many (1 per lesson, I hoped there would be more!). There are also different exercices. In the end of the book, you can find their solutions and also a short dictionary.

The book is quite thick (maybe no more than 2 cms). There are 13 lessons. In the end of it, there is also a review of grammar.

I can't give you a long opinion because I only read the first lesson, but until now I like the book. Maybe later it gets a bit boring, but until now it's been okay. They can't do miracles if the book has got only text and few drawings ;)

I used to have Teach Yourself Esperanto and I liked more than this because it had more drawings, more stories, etc. But this depends on the person. I'm sure you'll like Colloquial Slovene, I find it okay.

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Postby Fenek » 2003-09-19, 9:42

pa-integral wrote:1. How do you actually know when a v is pronounced /w/, /u/ or /v/? How is it pronounced when it goes alone in a sentence?

2. How do you know what's the strong syllab of a word? Actually, I read that was not possible to know, but... how am I supposed to discover it


1. /w/ at the end of word or before consonant
/u/ in the middle of consonantal cluster (that happens rarely)
/v/ before vowel
The word v is pronounced /w/ .

2. Do you mean the stressed syllable? If so, there are two ways:
- listening to the native speakers
- looking for the word in a dictionary
BTW Please notice that the Slovenian stress is shifting, so it may fall on different syllables in different forms of the same word (it rarely happens though)
Last edited by Fenek on 2004-02-13, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.
I'd appreciate any corrections to my messages!
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Zelo vam bom hvaležen za popravke!
Aş fi recunoscător pentru orice corectare!
Bio bih vam veoma zahvalan na ispravkama!

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-09-19, 13:08

If Colloquial Slovene is thick and it has only 13 lessons, I think it's not worth buying it. I'd rather try TY, which is cheaper (at least for me). But at least at Amazon.com TY Slovene has got a bad grade from the reades: 2-3 out of 5 stars. So, we got a problem. Well, Colloquial Slovene has been rated 5 stars! And they are both from the same author...a reader even analise all books from the same author at once at a review at TY. And I'm afraid I can only buy TY Slovene, Colloquial Slovene is much more expensive, even without the cassettes. Now I'm completely lost!!!
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Postby Car » 2003-09-19, 13:25

Yes, I've read those reviews as well by now. I think I'll wait until I've finished other course (I'll finish my French brush up course tomorrow or on Sunday :)), before I buy "Colloquial Slovene" then. It's just too expensive to buy it now without starting it immediately. But then again, 13 lessons isn't really much. How much does it teach in each lesson? What level should one reach at the end of it? Do they mention anything like that?

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-09-19, 13:47

Well, at least there's enough resources for learning Slovene at the internet...There's the big forum at Thezaurus, that site plenty of sound files...
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