Lengyel és magyar

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BezierCurve
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-12-17, 23:16

... already found a few similar words, like "patak", "medve" and I guess also the word for shepherd (can't remember it now, it's pasterz/pastuszek in Polish anyway) and a few others. That gives me some hope that Hungarian vocabulary is not as scary as it seemed :D

And, I was a bit surprised that Kukurydza was so similar too :)
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby ''' » 2008-12-18, 4:11

Shepherd is Pásztor like in English, and peasant is paraszt. I was surpised at how much vocabulary we stole from all the languages around us.
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Kenny » 2008-12-18, 13:19

Our relationship/friendship/whatever you want to call it with the Poles started hundreds of years ago, and we had a lot of other Slavic ethnic groups living here up until the last century, and there are still some villages full of Germans/Slavs etc. Hence the great influence/impact. (The other major source of our loanwords is Turkish but the reason for which we've borrowed so many words from them is pretty obvious, regarding our having been part of their empire for a century and a half).

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-12-18, 17:00

we had a lot of other Slavic ethnic groups living here up until the last century


That's what I was told yesterday by another Hungarian workmate.
Meanwhile I managed to decipher a few lines without looking into the English translation first :D It's getting more and more interesting now. I am also thankful for the short course of Hungarian, which ye put here in Unilang - it helps me to understand words in different forms at times (especially all the declination stuff with -ban, -ra etc.).

I could only wish that the translator had not been so poetic (a more word-for-word approach would be useful here). But it's great anyway.
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2008-12-21, 12:54

KennyHun wrote: The other major source of our loanwords is Turkish but the reason for which we've borrowed so many words from them is pretty obvious, regarding our having been part of their empire for a century and a half.

Vagy inkább amikor a finnugorokat (beleértve a permieket és a másik két ugor népet is) megszállták a csukcsos-török népek jóval azelőtt, hogy a Kárpát-medencébe jöttünk volna. Nem hiába vannak tele azok is ugyanazokkal a török jövevényszavakkal és nyelvtani sajátosságokkal. :ohwell:
Az oszmán törököktől már jóval kevesebb szót vettünk csak át.

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2008-12-21, 12:56

BezierCurve, I'm glad you you like that gift. :)
János Vitéz is a very good one too, it is compulsory for Hungarian pupils to read in fifth grade, and I think you can discover our Polish loanword "puszta" in the beginning. (pustinia or like that)

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Bondi » 2008-12-21, 22:19

+ bób‒bab, byk‒bika, cel‒cél, cud‒csoda, czapka‒sapka, czereśnia‒cseresznye, dziecko‒gyerek, gołąb‒galamb, klucz‒kulcs, kuchnia‒konyha, mak‒mák, malina‒málna, piekło‒pokol, rak‒rák, sąsiad‒szomszéd, siekiera‒szekerce, szabla‒szablya, taniec‒tánc, wiadro‒vödör/veder, wnok‒unoka... Just to name a few! There's too many common words to follow.

But the thing that fascinates me most is the logic: apart from the gender-orientation + cases (that obviously give you a serious headache), it is fairly easy for a Hungarian to understand the way to build up sentences in Polish, the difference between imperfect/perfect verbs etc... and the past/present/future tenses are far not as complicated as in English. :mrgreen:

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-12-21, 22:45

it is fairly easy for a Hungarian to understand the way to build up sentences in Polish, the difference between imperfect/perfect verbs etc... and the past/present/future tenses are far not as complicated as in English.


I've recently read a short article on how the focus of a sentence impacts the word order in Hungarian and I was also amazed how logical and familiar it seemed to be. Good for me :)

@Levo: Yes, actually already in school - during geography classes - we were taught about Hungarian "pusztas" - specific name just for that region; it works in Polish as a word on its own. However, it's pronunciation is adjusted to the Polish spelling rules, so we read it "pushta" [puʂta]

BTW, my girflriend thinks that "csókol" is a lovely word. It instantly brings chocolate to our minds...
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2008-12-22, 10:44

BezierCurve wrote:
BTW, my girflriend thinks that "csókol" is a lovely word. It instantly brings chocolate to our minds...

:lol:

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-12-24, 5:36

Hmm... I'm trying to comprehend the difference in verb forms (definite vs. indefinite). So, "Látok." alone means "I see you." - (because the verb is not followed by any specific object we can tell that it doesn't refer to any 3rd person object, and so it implies "you" - object in 2nd person, right?).

If so, then my question is: if I wanted to say "I see myself" would I still have to use indefinite conjugation? Would it be "magamat látok"? :hmm:
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby CoBB » 2008-12-24, 7:11

BezierCurve wrote:Hmm... I'm trying to comprehend the difference in verb forms (definite vs. indefinite). So, "Látok." alone means "I see you." - (because the verb is not followed by any specific object we can tell that it doesn't refer to any 3rd person object, and so it implies "you" - object in 2nd person, right?).

No, indefinite conjugation doesn’t imply any object. ‘Látok’ on its own means that my vision is working at the moment. In fact, in most cases I’d translate it as ‘I can see’. :yep:

Also, if the subject is first person singular and the object is second person, the definite ending is -lak/-lek, so ‘I see you’ would be ‘látlak’ (or ‘látlak titeket’ with a plural object).

BezierCurve wrote:If so, then my question is: if I wanted to say "I see myself" would I still have to use indefinite conjugation? Would it be "magamat látok"? :hmm:

No, ‘self’ is a plain object, hence it is considered third person: ‘látom magamat’, ‘látod magadat’, ‘látjuk magunkat’ etc.
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby ornament » 2008-12-24, 11:13

that's very interesting topic! :) I used to study Polish and I can speak it on a quite decent level, been to Poland several time, have friends there. Now... some time ago I started Hungarian, which is now playing a big role in my life - I work in a Hungarian company and there are only 2 Russians there, the rest are Hungarians - I adore this language too. And... once upon a time, during my Hungarian studies, it was a big surprize to me, I realized that there is some mysterious connection between Poles and Hungarians... :)

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-12-27, 6:08

Thanks CoBB. Could you help me though to clarify this subject completely? I mean, does the definite/indefinite form depend merely on the existence of an object, or does the object have to be well-defined (like with a/az preceeding it)? I thought it was the second case, but then I found this sentence:

Igaz, hogy eddig csak szamarat ismértem (...)

Szamarat have no definite article, yet the verb seems to follow the definite conjugation. :hmm:
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby CoBB » 2008-12-27, 7:37

BezierCurve wrote:Thanks CoBB. Could you help me though to clarify this subject completely? I mean, does the definite/indefinite form depend merely on the existence of an object, or does the object have to be well-defined (like with a/az preceeding it)?

It’s roughly the second case, but it’s not always obvious what’s considered a definite object. As a rule of thumb you should consider noun phrases preceded by a definite article, names and subordinate clauses (which imply a demonstrative pronoun in the main clause, which doesn’t always appear explicitly) as such. As for the other side, an indefinite or a complete lack of article denotes an indefinite object, and relative pronouns are also indefinite.

BezierCurve wrote:Igaz, hogy eddig csak szamarat ismertem (...)

Szamarat have no definite article, yet the verb seems to follow the definite conjugation. :hmm:

No, that’s indefinite. They just happen to look the same in the first person singular past tense. :lol:
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2008-12-27, 22:25

ornament wrote:that's very interesting topic! :) I used to study Polish and I can speak it on a quite decent level, been to Poland several time, have friends there. Now... some time ago I started Hungarian, which is now playing a big role in my life - I work in a Hungarian company and there are only 2 Russians there, the rest are Hungarians - I adore this language too. And... once upon a time, during my Hungarian studies, it was a big surprize to me, I realized that there is some mysterious connection between Poles and Hungarians... :)

Van ám! :)
És még jobb lenne, ha ezt mégtöbb magyar érezné.

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby ornament » 2009-01-03, 10:54

Levo wrote:
ornament wrote:that's very interesting topic! :) I used to study Polish and I can speak it on a quite decent level, been to Poland several time, have friends there. Now... some time ago I started Hungarian, which is now playing a big role in my life - I work in a Hungarian company and there are only 2 Russians there, the rest are Hungarians - I adore this language too. And... once upon a time, during my Hungarian studies, it was a big surprize to me, I realized that there is some mysterious connection between Poles and Hungarians... :)

Van ám! :)
És még jobb lenne, ha ezt mégtöbb magyar érezné.

hát ez már nem függ tőlem :) btw a magyar főnököm is a Lengyelország-barát :D
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-03-14, 23:11

I've been looking for some old Omega's songs lately and I've found (among many other attempts) this, extremely Polish version of THE SONG. :)
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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2009-03-14, 23:59

BezierCurve wrote:I've been looking for some old Omega's songs lately and I've found (among many other attempts) this, extremely Polish version of THE SONG. :)

When can we expect anything like that from others?
It's very-very kind from Poles. :drunk: :cry:

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby Levo » 2009-03-15, 0:03

My brother is just guiding Poles in Szeged. I would take part so much, but I have no time to be in the city right now...
Though I also met Poles on Thursday night at another international event, though we had no possibility to talk.
So, on March 23rd it is the day of Polish-Hungarian friendship, right?

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Re: Lengyel és magyar

Postby BezierCurve » 2009-03-15, 3:44

One of very few occassions when all our politicians voted YES - that's how they agreed on March, 23 (as far as I remember our Parliament did it a few days after the Hungarian one). :yep:
Brejkam wszystkie rule.

"I love tautologies, they're so ... tautological." Hunef


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