The Hungarians

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby ''' » 2010-04-04, 12:57

Hungary, not Hungaria, and would someone kindly explain the cartoon? It's been confusing me. I think the comment however was that we came and conquered pannonia in 850AD-ish and were given legal possession of that land in 1000/1001AD whereas Slovakia didn't exist until recently so the claim of the nation of Slovakia to that land is lesser than our claim even though the claim of the Slovak people to live there is irrefutable.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Rasa » 2010-04-04, 13:14

''' wrote:A peasant's only cow dies. A fairy comes along and says "I'm having a good day, I'll grant you one wish". The peasant looks at his dead cow and says: "I want my neighbour's cow to die too"
No, this must a lithuanian anecdote :lol:

''' wrote:"Hedgehog is a real asshole because he won't lend me his lawnmower". When hedgehog opens the door to ask rabbit what he wants, rabbit says "fuck you and your lawnmower" and goes home.
:haha: hilarious

''' wrote:...Later st Peter sees Kádár (our guy) crying on the steps of the Országház and comes down and cries with him.
Cool, that's also sounds so familiar. Do you think irony is a characteristic feature of hungarians? I mean not only in anecdotes, but let say in literature, theater, cinema, everyday life etc. I find quite a big portion of irony in lithuanian stuff, it's often something like Roberto Benigni's La vita è bella - covering hard feelings with humor. La vita è bella reminds much of one book written by lithuanian writer B.Sruoga, who was in the concentration camp. The thing is that reading his memoirs is really...fun.

And I know who was Kádár. Oh, and Nagy. I wander what other famous people from Hungary I know. Please remind me. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby kotrcka » 2010-04-04, 13:15

''' wrote:Hungary, not Hungaria, and would someone kindly explain the cartoon? It's been confusing me. I think the comment however was that we came and conquered pannonia in 850AD-ish and were given legal possession of that land in 1000/1001AD whereas Slovakia didn't exist until recently so the claim of the nation of Slovakia to that land is lesser than our claim even though the claim of the Slovak people to live there is irrefutable.


Yes, Hungary.

So, cartoon - I will try to explain.

There is a table near to mosquito with two parts - "Komárno" and "Komárom" - normaly we (in Slovakia) use tables with names of towns in two languages, where the population of second nation (in this case - hungarian) is more than 20 percent. So first one is "Komárno" - name of town in slovak language and "Komárom" is the name of the same town in hugarian. But why is there a mosquito? Because if you read it as a sentence and not as a two names of towns, it is "Komárno komárom", which means in English something like "Komárno belongs to mosquitos".

On other side there is (probably) some Slovak guy with table "Slovensko Slovákom", which is similar - it means something like "Slovakia belongs to Slovaks". It is a joke mainly for Slovak people, because these two names of that town together makes a little bit funny sentence.

And to those dates. Yes, we did not had any country called Slovakia in these times, but do not forget to "Veľká Morava". There was no "Hungary" in year 1000 too.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Kenny » 2010-04-04, 17:13

There was a Hungarian Kingdom though ;).

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Merlin » 2010-04-04, 18:01

I'm also beginning to see some differences between French and Hungarian humor, but for now all I have to compare the two is the Romeo and Juliet musical.
The Hungarian version is absolutely crazy, with a lot of irony that kind of "deconstructs" the Romance stuff - unlike the French.
I'm so looking forward to reading Hungarian literature and watching movies to dive into this culture :lol:

''', these jokes sound weird to a French ear (too dark!), but I like them.

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Levo » 2010-04-08, 20:23

Hey!
It's so interesting. Then it is not only me who sees this resemblence between Lithuanians and Hungarians.
When in my ancient times I read books about the Baltic countries, I thought that the Finno-Ugrian Estonians are the most different and Lithuanians are the most similar to Hungarians.
And I think there is more than just that traditionally most part of the population were catholic in both countries... There is something more.

I don't know, maybe there is something to do with that the states where we live in, were both once strong, militaristically powerful, proud states. (The actual living conditions of simple serfs or craftsmen is another issue :P ) And since history is a very important subject in Hungary, people learn about it already at a very early age, so they grow up with this pride somewhere deep inside. And now the state of Hungary is smaller, one-third of ethnic Hungarians live in the neighbouring countries, so it also contributes to that general feeling in Hungarians that "we are a sad nation". And that "once there were better times".
Note that the fact that our language is mutually not understandable at all by the speakers of any other language, and we cannot understand any other languages either, makes people have the feeling that "our language is special and cool". Of course, because of this, theories which would like to prove that Hungarian is actually a very ancient language, are quite popular among the population.

I don't know about the education of history in Lithuania. All I heard is that Lithuanians are also proud about their past. And it is true that The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was once very powerful.
Correct me if it is not so, I am telling again what I read only.
So I read that Lithuanians are also proud about their language, since it is the most archaic Indo-European language, preserving the original morphology and grammar the most out of the European branch.

And if I might go on, I would like to share with you some other things in which Lithuania and Hungary seems to be similar to each other while different from other countries in the neighbourhood.

In the late 1930's Hungary was still a country with a mainly agrarian profile, though with a quite modern food processing industry. While Czechoslovakia was among the 10 most industrialized countries of the world.
On the contrary with Estonia and Latvia, by the end of the free republic, Lithuania also remained an agrarian country, though it's industry developed a lot too since 1920.

While Czechoslovakia remained a more or less democratic country between the two world wars, in other countries democracy fell apart. Hungary had an authoritarian leadership already from the beginning of the 1920's, Lithuania from 1926. In Estonia it started only in 1934 and ended in 1938 when parliamentary democracy was reinstalled. Note that Konstantin Päts wasn't a really hard leader either.
Kárlis Ulmanis's rule in Latvia cannot be judged so unambiguously, but as for what I read about this age in Latvia from 1934 to 1940, it wasn't so authoritarian as let's say the Lithuanian or Hungarian one. Well-being was also bigger there with a relatively higher living standard.

For the first, these last things can seem unimportant, but if you look deeper into the psychology of a nation, you know that "culture" consists of quite a lot of hidden things which have roots in history.
Just for an example, it is different to have parents/grandparents who were grown up under an authoritarian regime than parents who were already grown up in democracy. Especially, when we are talking about generations, like in the case of a nation.

And now that I said all these, I can add the other things which are not any special in the region but can still be worth mentioning:

The bigger part of Hungarians used to be catholic, so inherited the behavioural marks also in the modern ages. Lithuanians were and still are mostly catholics as far as I know.

We both had Nazi and Soviet oppression, as well as decades of forced socialism and the latter one ending more or less at the same time.


Think about how big impact all these can be on people and their behaviour, their views, their trust and humour. Now that I collected all these, actually don't wonder anymore why we seem to be so similar in some aspects :)

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Rasa » 2010-04-10, 14:37

I don't know, maybe there is something to do with that the states where we live in, were both once strong, militaristically powerful, proud states. (The actual living conditions of simple serfs or craftsmen is another issue :P ) And since history is a very important subject in Hungary, people learn about it already at a very early age, so they grow up with this pride somewhere deep inside. And now the state of Hungary is smaller, one-third of ethnic Hungarians live in the neighbouring countries, so it also contributes to that general feeling in Hungarians that "we are a sad nation". And that "once there were better times".


People in Lithuania also have that pride and really idealize the period of The Grand Duchy of Lithuania. But I think nowadays this pride contradicts with the reality – we are just a small country with lost of economic, political and even mental problems caused by the following tough centuries, in which Lithuanians tried to survive being oppressed and having no independence, to survive those big changes of regimes and policies, that constantly disturbed the coherent development of our nation.

I think speaking about historical achievements is vital for all national states and writing history books stressing the things that we must be proud of is a usual practice in most countries I guess (I wander if one day nations would manage to write one common book of European history..). Putting things so as to have something to be proud of is important to enforce unity, but at the same time “the greater” our history is, the more we feel obliged to prove that we are worth to call ourselves Hungarians/Lithuanians and that we are worth the independence that we have now.

At least in Lithuania as a result of this “great history” we raise ourselves big tasks and have high expectations from everything we do. But the reality is very different from the times of our great ancestors. As our development was constantly interrupted, we firstly have to achieve many things that other countries achieved long time ago. We have very little experience in democracy and market economy, we don’t have one interpretation of the soviet era, we lost our intelligentsia in soviet times and the new one is weak, people have to leave their homes in countryside, where their ancestors lived for ages, and start a new life in cities, etc. So it seems not only our language is archaic but we lack modern skills in many other important fields. Perhaps that really makes us unique and interesting for some scholars and tourists, but that doesn’t help in a real everyday life.

So on one hand, it seems having the past, when we were strong independent political unit, gives us a right to have that freedom once again, but on the other hand, it enforces high expectations nowadays which don’t comply with the reality. Failing to deal with the new reality (as effectively as we would like to) makes us quite depressed, pessimistic and self-critical. :?
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby ''' » 2010-04-11, 4:17

Rasa wrote:So on one hand, it seems having the past, when we were strong independent political unit, gives us a right to have that freedom once again, but on the other hand, it enforces high expectations nowadays which don’t comply with the reality. Failing to deal with the new reality (as effectively as we would like to) makes us quite depressed, pessimistic and self-critical. :?


I think we can all sympathise with that.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Levo » 2010-04-14, 19:15

''' wrote:
Rasa wrote:So on one hand, it seems having the past, when we were strong independent political unit, gives us a right to have that freedom once again, but on the other hand, it enforces high expectations nowadays which don’t comply with the reality. Failing to deal with the new reality (as effectively as we would like to) makes us quite depressed, pessimistic and self-critical. :?


I think we can all sympathise with that.

Maybe that also contributes to that Lithuanians have the second highest and Hungary the 11th highest suicide rates in the world.

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Satsuma » 2010-04-14, 20:12

Levo wrote:Maybe that also contributes to that Lithuanians have the second highest and Hungary the 11th highest suicide rates in the world.

Who has the first?

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby ''' » 2010-04-15, 4:59

it's usually japan
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Varislintu » 2010-04-15, 13:13

''' wrote:it's usually japan


Or Russia. I think it's usually Russia nowadays.

This Wikipedia article sort of agrees with me, but the data are collected a decade apart in some cases, so I don't know how well they describe the reality in, say, 2009. Not to mention the reliability of the data in the first place.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Rasa » 2010-04-15, 15:02

Varislintu wrote:This Wikipedia article sort of agrees with me, but the data are collected a decade apart in some cases, so I don't know how well they describe the reality in, say, 2009. Not to mention the reliability of the data in the first place.

As far as I know, Lithuanian men indeed leave others far behind in suicide rates, while the number of women suicide could be smaller. But it seems that it's not because they can deal with stress better, as it is usually thought. Women attempt to commit suicide more often than men but they are not so "successful" in doing that, and that is most probably due to the different means that men and women choose to do that. Women usually take medicine, while men choose more aggressive means like shooting, hanging oneself, jumping off the bridge or building. China is the only one country where women commit suicide more often than men. While Lithuania is extraordinary in the percent of men who hang themselves - 90% (!). So it's difficult to say, if Lithuanians are really the most pessimistic nation, because the probability of death by hanging oneself is 90%, while it's only 6-7% by taking medicine or drugs (popular in Scandinavia and many Asian countries). Lithuanians have an old saying which is used in most helpless situations, sounds smth like "..there's nothing to do, just to hang yourself (belieka tik pasikarti)". So I guess suicide rates have something to do also with traditions, as well as many other factors like education, urbanization, religion, overturns of economic, political, social structures, etc. I don't know what are "traditions of suicide" in Hungary, but I guess Hungarians also tend to choose quite reliable means to do that.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby ''' » 2010-04-15, 16:29

knife through the heart usually but my uncle hanged himself
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Varislintu » 2010-04-15, 16:34

''' wrote:knife through the heart usually but my uncle hanged himself


What, really? Knife through the heart :o? I've never even heard of such a thing outside of female seppuku in ancient Japan (and there it was the belly I think?). It takes a lot of "courage" (not trying to glorify it) or determination to do something so immediately harmful and painful to oneself.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby ''' » 2010-04-15, 18:57

yeah I thought it strange too, and certainly I'd go for my neck but apparently we're very passionate when we commit suicide and the heart thing works symbolically or sth. But this is just what I've heard.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Rasa » 2010-04-15, 19:43

:para: :shock: interesting..

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Levo » 2010-04-16, 15:13

What? No way!

I read a book about it with lots of statistics also.

In Hungary:

Women hang themselves the most times (over 80%) and it is a really effective way to be honest.
While men, make other things too: electroshock, jumping from high places, and other kind of things. For example a guy in my old student's hostel committed suicide the way that he pulled a sack on his head and pumped CO2 gas into it from a soda syphone.
Well, yeah, he had willpower not to stop it, but otherwise such methods always have the opt to stop, while if you hang yourself, you are already hanging...
But still this way, we also have the international X4,5 number of male suiciders compared to women.

But I have never heard about this stubbing in the heart :S

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Re: The Hungarians

Postby mszegedy » 2011-10-06, 4:59

Here's a joke. I think it's exclusively Hungarian. Not true anymore (we all know English now, and a lot of people know Russian, Slovak, and/or Polish).

A weary traveler is staying in Hungary, but has gotten lost. He pulls up next to a pair of Hungarians. He asks them, in English, where he might find the nearest hotel. They just stare mutely at him. He tries German. No response. He thinks back to his high school years, and, with considerable effort, clumsily puts together the question in French. And yet, still no response. Finally, in desperation, he draws upon his last vestige, a smattering of Russian. But still no response. He goes and leaves, in disgust.
Hungarian I: Finally! I thought he'd never leave.
Hungarian II: Yeah, he looked like he was going to go on all night.
Hungarian I: Hey, don't you suppose we should be learning some foreign languages?
Hungarian II: Why? He knew four languages, and look what good it did him!

And while we're on the subject of Hungarians, read A Country Of Aliens. Good stuff.
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Re: The Hungarians

Postby Prosper_Youplaboum » 2011-10-06, 9:58

While Lithuania is extraordinary in the percent of men who hang themselves - 90% (!).


90% of Lithuanian men hang themselves? How come there are still Lithuanians left? Normally within less than 2 years they should all be dead! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :rotfl:



sorry............................. :oops: :mrgreen:
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