words and expressions

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undrentide
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words and expressions

Postby undrentide » 2007-02-08, 15:30

Sziasztok! :)

Recently I started a blog in Hungarian, to practice. But then I realize I really don't know many words and expressions.
I'm trying to use dictionaries and learn words and phrases so that I can express what I want. But often it is not easy and I decided to ask questions here.

Útban hazafelé a könyvboltba mentem.
Akkor könyveket veszek, akármikor könyvboltba megyek.
Nem tudom ellenállni! (Nagyon szeretek olvasni.)

Here's one of the entries.

Ma megvettem a Krasznahorkai László könyvét, „Északról hegy, Délről tó, Nyugatról utak, Keletről folyó”-t. ami a titkos kértről Kiotóban szól.
Perze, ez a könyv fordítás magyarról japánra. Ez a első könyve japánul. Csak keveset oldalt olvastam, ami kezdődött a második fejezettel. (Az első fejezet nincs!) Minden mondat nagyon hosszú, néha egy mondat egy oldalt takar be egész oldalnyi.
Szeretnék azt olvasni korán, mert nagyon érdekes látszik.


Today I bought a book by Krasznahorkai László, "Mountain in the north, lake in the south, road in the west, river in the east", which is about the secret garden in Kyoto.
Of course, this book is a translation from Hungarian to Japanese. This is his first book (published) in Japanese. I've read only a few pages, that begines with the 2nd chapter. (It has no first chapter!) All the sentences are very long, just one sentence fill up a whole page.
I'd like to read it soon, because it looks very interesting.

I wonder if my Hungarian makes sense.
This book is very peculiar, it has no first chapter and starts from the second chapter, and each sentence is quite long, and one sentence sometimes covers a whole page.

Any comments and corrections are welcome!

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CoBB
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Re: words and expressions

Postby CoBB » 2007-02-08, 22:02

undrentide wrote:Útban hazafelé a könyvesboltba mentem.
Mindig veszek könyveket, [s]akár[/s]mikor(/ha) a könyvesboltba megyek. - Moving the verb forward makes mindig stressed. Akármikor is not a good translation of ‘whenever’ in this sense. To convey the same meaning the sentence should be rewritten in its entirety, e.g.: ...mikor éppen a könyvesbolt felé visz az utam.
Nem tudok ellenállni! (Nagyon szeretek olvasni.)

...

Ma megvettem [s]a[/s] Krasznahorkai László egy könyvét, „Északról hegy, Délről tó, Nyugatról utak, Keletről folyó”-t, amely a kiotói titkos kertről szól.
Persze[s],[/s] ez a könyv fordítás magyarról japánra. Ez a első könyve japánul (‘japánul kiadott könyve’, if you want to add ‘published’). Csak kevés oldalt olvastam, ami a második fejezettel kezdődött. (Nincs első fejezet! (a slightly different alternative, which is just as close to your sentence: az első fejezet nem létezik = the first chapter doesn’t exist)) Minden mondat nagyon hosszú, néha egy mondat egy oldalt kitölt (this verb means ‘fill all the available space’).
Szeretném [s]azt[/s] [color=red]hamarosan elolvasni ([i]korán
means early or prematurely), mert nagyon érdekesnek látszik (rather tűnik).

Pretty good! :D

Kiváló! :D

undrentide wrote:I wonder if my Hungarian makes sense.

Yes, it does. :yep: I read the text before the translation, and it was perfectly comprehensible on the whole. :) The only thing that could be misunderstood is the sentence with ‘korán’. It sounds like you’d like to read it early in the mornings or something.

Naná! :yep: A fordítás előtt elolvastam a szöveget, és összességében tökéletesen érthető volt. :) Egyedül a „korán”-os mondatot lehet félreérteni. Úgy hangzik, mintha azt mondanád, hogy reggelente korán akarod olvasni, vagy valami hasonló.

undrentide wrote:Any comments and corrections are welcome!

Let me give you a short summary then: :praise:.

Akkor hadd foglaljam össze röviden: :praise:
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

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undrentide
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Postby undrentide » 2007-02-10, 5:52

Szia, CoBB!

Nagyon köszönöm szépen!
It really helps a lot!! :)
(Hogy mondják magyarul? Nagyon készséges? Any other expression I can use?)

Now I have some questions.

Ma megvettem [s]a[/s] Krasznahorkai László egy könyvét, „Északról hegy, Délről tó, Nyugatról utak, Keletről folyó”-t, amely a kiotói titkos kertről szól.


1. I noted that egy is appropriate here, I guess because the book I bought is one of the many books Krasznahorkai wrote.
The reason I used "a" is because I bought the particular book (Északról hegy...) but because the name of the book is in a separate clause, so it should be "egy".
Is my understanding correct?

2. Why "egy" is placed in front of könyvét, not in front of Krasznahorkai László könyvét?

3. What is the difference between ami and amely? When should I use which?

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Postby CoBB » 2007-02-10, 8:19

undrentide wrote:Szia, CoBB!

Nagyon szépen köszönöm!
It really helps a lot!! :)
(Hogy mondják magyarul? Nagyon készséges? Any other expression I can use?)

Készséges means ‘eager to help’, it can only be applied to a person, and I’d say that it is preferably used in the past tense (készséges volt, készségesnek bizonyult/mutatkozott etc.). You could simply say ‘ez nagyon sokat segít’ or ‘ez hatalmas segítség’.

undrentide wrote:Ma megvettem [s]a[/s] Krasznahorkai László egy könyvét, az „Északról hegy, Délről tó, Nyugatról utak, Keletről folyó”-t, amely a kiotói titkos kertről szól.

Oops, in the correction above I forgot the definite article before the title.

undrentide wrote:1. I noted that egy is appropriate here, I guess because the book I bought is one of the many books Krasznahorkai wrote.

At least that was my idea.

undrentide wrote:The reason I used "a" is because I bought the particular book (Északról hegy...) but because the name of the book is in a separate clause, so it should be "egy".
Is my understanding correct?

Frankly, I made a mistake here. :oops: The egy should not be used if it’s about a particular book whose title you mention in the same sentence. It would only be correct if the sentence stopped there. You could leave it out even in that case, which would imply that you have a particular book in mind, and saying it that way literally begs for the question ‘which one?’.

On the other hand, it is necessary to add the definite article before the title, unless the title starts with one.

undrentide wrote:2. Why "egy" is placed in front of könyvét, not in front of Krasznahorkai László könyvét?

You have to understand that possessive constructs are not indivisible the same way as adjectives and similar components. If you put egy before the name, it means ‘the book of a Krasznahorkai László’, as if there were many Krasznahorkai Lászlós. ;)

undrentide wrote:3. What is the difference between ami and amely? When should I use which?

Amely is used to refer to the subject of the main clause, but only if it’s something definite. If you want to refer to the whole clause, or the subject is general (e.g. minden, valami), you need ami. On another note, amely is often substituted with ami in spoken language, so don’t worry about it while talking.

Today I saw the book I’ve been looking for lately. - Ma láttam a könyvet, amelyet mostanában keresek. (can also be amelyiket mostanában keresem)
Today I saw the book, which made me very happy. - Ma láttam a könyvet, aminek nagyon megörültem. (but because of the increasing role of ami in spoken language this is somewhat ambiguous, and you can understand that the book was what made you happy, not the fact that you saw it)
Today I saw something I’ve been looking for lately. - Ma láttam valamit, amit mostanában keresek.

By the way, the correct form is blogom. :) I listened to your voiceblog, and I have to tell you that your pronunciation is very good! :D I can easily understand everything without looking at the text.
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!



A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

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undrentide
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Postby undrentide » 2007-02-13, 16:03

CoBB wrote:Készséges means ‘eager to help’, it can only be applied to a person, and I’d say that it is preferably used in the past tense (készséges volt, készségesnek bizonyult/mutatkozott etc.). You could simply say ‘ez nagyon sokat segít’ or ‘ez hatalmas segítség'.


Á, értem. Sometimes Hungarian-English/English-Hungarian dictionaries do not help because it gives only a few words but not the nuance/connotation.
Maybe I should say "Nagyon készséges voltal"? Thank you so much!

CoBB wrote:Frankly, I made a mistake here. :oops: The egy should not be used if it’s about a particular book whose title you mention in the same sentence. It would only be correct if the sentence stopped there. You could leave it out even in that case, which would imply that you have a particular book in mind, and saying it that way literally begs for the question ‘which one?’.

On the other hand, it is necessary to add the definite article before the title, unless the title starts with one.


I think now I understood it.
I always wonder what to do with the article, your explanation on the title and the definite article to go with is really useful.

CoBB wrote:You have to understand that possessive constructs are not indivisible the same way as adjectives and similar components. If you put egy before the name, it means ‘the book of a Krasznahorkai László’, as if there were many Krasznahorkai Lászlós. ;)


Thank you, I was wondering what is the rule about it. Now it is very clear, thank you for sorting it out for me.

CoBB wrote:Amely is used to refer to the subject of the main clause, but only if it’s something definite. If you want to refer to the whole clause, or the subject is general (e.g. minden, valami), you need ami. On another note, amely is often substituted with ami in spoken language, so don’t worry about it while talking.

Today I saw the book I’ve been looking for lately. - Ma láttam a könyvet, amelyet mostanában keresek. (can also be amelyiket mostanában keresem)
Today I saw the book, which made me very happy. - Ma láttam a könyvet, aminek nagyon megörültem. (but because of the increasing role of ami in spoken language this is somewhat ambiguous, and you can understand that the book was what made you happy, not the fact that you saw it)
Today I saw something I’ve been looking for lately. - Ma láttam valamit, amit mostanában keresek.


Thank you for clarification, CoBB!
(And I feel relieved to know that I should not worry about it too much as far as I'm talking... Lazy me... :oops: )

CoBB wrote:By the way, the correct form is blogom. :) I listened to your voiceblog, and I have to tell you that your pronunciation is very good! :D I can easily understand everything without looking at the text.


Thanks, I corrected it accordingly. I always get confused with a and o for nouns.
And thank you for your comments about my voiceblog, it is really encouraging - at least what I read (painstakingly, I must say) sound something not so remote from Hungarian language! :D

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Postby CoBB » 2007-02-19, 16:57

undrentide wrote:Maybe I should say "Nagyon készséges voltal"? Thank you so much!

No, it’s just a factual statement that carries no value judgement. It can be easily used in a negative statement too (like ‘he was very készséges, but he was really just ripping us off’). Something like ‘sokat segítettél’ has no such ambiguity.

Nem, ez csupán értékítélet nélküli tényállítás. Simán használható negatív állításban is (pl. „nagyon készséges volt, de igazából átvert minket”). Például a „sokat segítettél” nem ilyen kétértelmű.

undrentide wrote:(And I feel relieved to know that I should not worry about it too much as far as I'm talking... Lazy me... :oops: )

Everyone deserves a minute off. ;)

Mindenkinek jár egy szabad perc. ;)

undrentide wrote:Thanks, I corrected it accordingly. I always get confused with a and o for nouns.

Just keep in mind that it’s the same for the plural. If you know the plural, you know the possessive form too. And to learn the plural, well, you have to read and listen as much as you can.

Csak azt tartsd észben, hogy megegyezik a többes száméval. Ha tudod a többes számot, a birtokos alakot is tudod. A többes megtanulásához pedig, nos, annyit kell olvasnod és hallgatnod, amennyit csak tudsz.
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!



A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...


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