Dialects and accents

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Kenny
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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby Kenny » 2010-01-28, 18:31

French "ai" is the same as "é", at least according to standard proncunciation, the way people actually pronounce those two is another matter (plus it also depends on the surrounding sounds soo..). Like in maison, it's /ɛ/ etc...but e.g. in the futur simple forms it's pronounced /e/. (The truth is that in contemporary northern (as opposed to southern where they like to keep things more traditional, at least pronunciation-wise) French pronunciation the ending of the first person singular futur and conditionnel forms merged to make a sound somewhere between the two so je ferai and je ferais are roughly pronounced the same.)

Here is some of what I found on Hungarian phonology and they all describe our "e" as /ɛ/. Are they all wrong? (Plus apparently I lived a lie for the last couple of years :P.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology
http://www.search.com/reference/Hungarian_phonology
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hungarian.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_f ... nded_vowel
http://www.speech.kth.se/prod/publicati ... 08-012.pdf

I also listened to a recording of an open-mid front unrounded vowel and it's very much like what I'd describe our "e" to be.

As for your question about the distinction of "flash" and "flesh": picked it up.

Meneldil
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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby Meneldil » 2010-01-30, 19:44

What I usually hear is definitively [ε], but I think I've heard Hungarians using a considerably more open vowel ([æ]) for <e> too. I guess it's dialectal.

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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby ''' » 2010-01-30, 20:46

The epsilon is used to describe the e of English and Hebrew. You can't tell me those are the magyar <e>. I'll check the sound files when i'm on my own computer hopefully tomorrow.
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Kenny
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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby Kenny » 2010-01-31, 11:19

Well, it definitely ain't no /æ/ either, I can tell you that. (At least not in standard Hungarian.)

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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby ''' » 2010-01-31, 13:41

if by /æ/ you mean the finnish/persian sound then no it isn't.
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ffrench
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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby ffrench » 2012-06-01, 13:35

Elnézést kérek hogy visszahozom ezt a nagyon régi lapot, de úgy gondoltam ide tartózik. Tipikus, szerintetek, a nyugati magyar tájszolástól, hogy a "miért"-et és a "mert"-et "mér" és "mer"-ként ejtik ki? Én mindig is így ejtettem ki ezeket, és a családom nyugatról származik.

A másik kerdésem az é betű kiejtéséről szól. Szerintem az e betű az [ɛ], de sose hittem el hogy az é az [e:] lenne. Én mindig is inkáb [ɪ:]-nek hallom. Legalább, az én fülemhez nem hasonlít a francia hanghoz. Talán ez is valami nyugati? Pedig nem hiszem, mert bármilyen magyaroktól így hallanám.

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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby Kenny » 2012-06-04, 11:24

Köznyelvileg a mert helytől függetlenül gyakran mer' lesz, a miért dettó -> mér' (sőt, mé-t is hallani sokszor). (Nyilván az efféle használat hivatalos helyzetben vagy mondjuk a tévében, rádióban elítélendő, illetve nevetséges lenne, legalábbis a bemondók stb. részéről.)
Az is igaz, hogy a mi é-nk nem ugyanaz, mint a francia [e] (a francia [e] zártabb, közelebb van az [i]-hez), és nem csak a hossza miatt. Ettől függetlenül szerintem [e:], viszont tájszólásban lehet hallani olyasmit, ami [ɪː]-nek hangozhat.

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Re: Dialects and accents

Postby ffrench » 2012-06-04, 11:38

Köszönöm szépen; az teljesen érthető.


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