Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

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Mert
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Postby Mert » 2007-12-25, 12:04

Atatürk's Turkish revolution tried to remove all affects of Ottomanish on Turkish. Today we speak in purified Turkish. But Turks haven't been taught Ottomanish since 1928. i'd like to help you both in Ottomanish actively. i want to learn Ottomanish in the future.
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kalemiye
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Postby kalemiye » 2007-12-25, 12:21

Mert wrote:Atatürk's Turkish revolution tried to remove all affects of Ottomanish on Turkish. Today we speak in purified Turkish. But Turks haven't been taught Ottomanish since 1928. i'd like to help you both in Ottomanish actively. i want to learn Ottomanish in the future.


Download the book of the link, I think it is one with a Harvard sign in some of its pages. It is old, but many people learn from that book. You should learn a bit of farsi and arabic first, since many grammar structures and vocabulary are taken from there.
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Postby linguanima » 2008-03-18, 11:16

I've decided to start Ottoman Turkish! Hopefully this isn't just a whim across my brain. I managed to borrow these two ancient books from my uni library:

Image

Ottoman-Turkish Conversational Grammar
by V. H. Hagopian, Julius Groos, London & Heidelberg, 1907

Image

Image

Grammaire théorique et pratique de la langue turke, telle qu'elle est parlée à constantinople

by Artin Hindoglou, Librairie Orientale de Prosper Dondey-Dupré, Paris, 1834

The second book was rebound by the library so I put a picture of the title page here as well.
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

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Postby kalemiye » 2008-03-18, 12:12

how come you decide to study Ottoman Turkish? It seems that it is Yeni Osmanlica, which is very close to modern turkish. I've got a dictionary of ottoman, pm me your email and I'll send it to you.
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Postby linguanima » 2008-03-18, 12:16

renata wrote:how come you decide to study Ottoman Turkish? It seems that it is Yeni Osmanlica, which is very close to modern turkish. I've got a dictionary of ottoman, pm me your email and I'll send it to you.


Because I couldn't resist the charm of the Turkish language any more. It's seductive, especially when written in Arabic script.

Oh so there was an... Old Ottoman Turkish somewhere in history? I didn't know that.

Gracias por tu ayuda. :wink:
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

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Postby kalemiye » 2008-03-18, 14:38

linguanima wrote:
renata wrote:how come you decide to study Ottoman Turkish? It seems that it is Yeni Osmanlica, which is very close to modern turkish. I've got a dictionary of ottoman, pm me your email and I'll send it to you.


Because I couldn't resist the charm of the Turkish language any more. It's seductive, especially when written in Arabic script.

Oh so there was an... Old Ottoman Turkish somewhere in history? I didn't know that.

Gracias por tu ayuda. :wink:


De nada.

Yes, Classical Ottoman existed, but the language was reformed in the last times of the Ottoman Empire :). Later on I might send you a pm with mor einfo about it, I've got to check dates and some details :D.
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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby nadi » 2008-10-12, 15:05

Selam Arkadaşlar.

"Yavrumun Elifbası" was a book teaching the Ottoman alphabet to the first class students of primary schoolsbefore the alphabet change. I think it will be useful for those who wish to study Ottoman. Here are a few pages, and the zip file containing the whole book is here. I have limited knowledge about how the grammar and spelling rules work in Ottoman, but I can read the book quite easly. If you have parts that you can't read, I'll do my best to help you.

Image Image ImageImage

المده عثمانلیجه یازیلمش باشکا کتاپلار ده وار. اوماریم ایلریده اونلاری ده تارایپ سیزین استفادنیزه سونارم
.

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby kalemiye » 2008-10-13, 18:03

Azeri people from Iran can read and understand Ottoman Turkish perfectly. I showed a book on Ottoman to my friends and they could actually read everything. Its so amazing (and it makes me feel so stupid haha).

Thanks for posting, I'll have a look at it since I have a subject about Ottoman TUrkish this term :).
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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby nadi » 2008-10-13, 19:19

renata wrote:Azeri people from Iran can read and understand Ottoman Turkish perfectly. I showed a book on Ottoman to my friends and they could actually read everything. Its so amazing (and it makes me feel so stupid haha).

Thanks for posting, I'll have a look at it since I have a subject about Ottoman TUrkish this term :).


Yes, it seems that they still use many words that we stopped using. Besides, Azeri people in Iran use Arabic alphabet.

Since you are in Turkey, I am sure you can find those books teaching Ottoman Turkish. Like this, and this.

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby nadi » 2008-10-13, 19:29

I have come across this page with some examples of Ottoman script. Have a look.

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby zhiguli » 2008-11-02, 6:16

The spelling (or spellings, since there is no standard) used by Azeris in Iran today is actually quite different from Ottoman spelling. The vowels are written out more fully (to the point that extra vowels get inserted in Arabic words), vowel harmony is respected and they use the normal nun ن instead of the "sağır nun" ڭ used in historical spellings (the sound it represents disappeared from Azeri and Turkish, but you can still hear it in Turkmen and other Turkic languages).
So for example "sizin", which would be spelled سیزین nowadays, was spelled سزك in Ottoman times.
So, likewise:

ben, beni, bana, bende, benden, benim
بن بنی بكا بنده بندن بنم
sen seni sana sende senden senin
سن سنی سكا سنده سندن سنك
o, onu, ona, onda, ondan, onun
او اونی اوكا اونده اوندن اونك

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby kalemiye » 2008-11-02, 19:29

zhiguli wrote:The spelling (or spellings, since there is no standard) used by Azeris in Iran today is actually quite different from Ottoman spelling. The vowels are written out more fully (to the point that extra vowels get inserted in Arabic words), vowel harmony is respected and they use the normal nun ن instead of the "sağır nun" ڭ used in historical spellings (the sound it represents disappeared from Azeri and Turkish, but you can still hear it in Turkmen and other Turkic languages).
So for example "sizin", which would be spelled سیزین nowadays, was spelled سزك in Ottoman times.
So, likewise:

ben, beni, bana, bende, benden, benim
بن بنی بكا بنده بندن بنم
sen seni sana sende senden senin
سن سنی سكا سنده سندن سنك
o, onu, ona, onda, ondan, onun
او اونی اوكا اونده اوندن اونك


My friends are illiterate in written Azeri, they can read it because they know Persian, Arabic, Azeri and Turkish, so they can guess easily everything.
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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby DANAY » 2008-11-10, 23:39

THE NUMBERS ARE WRITTEN FROM RIGHT TO LEFT BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW THE ARABIC STYLE, WHICH IS LIKE THE GERMAN/DUTCH/DANISH/BOKMAAL ONE....
SO, IF YOU WANT TO SAY 45 IN ARABIC, YOU SAY HAMS-WA 9ARBAIIN,YANI ...BEŞ VE KIRK...
SO, LOGICALLY YOU WRITE FIRST 5 AND THEN 4, BEGINNING FROM THE RIGHT.....
YALLAH, INSALAR, KITAPLAR VARKI....... :nope:

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby zhiguli » 2008-11-16, 2:29


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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby nadi » 2008-12-06, 20:11

Here are a few more sites related with Ottoman Turkish.

http://www.tarihiturkiyeturkcesi.blogspot.com/

http://www.os-ar.com/
This site is worth seeing because of its rich content. You can find many official documents of the Ottoman period here.


http://www.osmanlicaturkce.com/
I thought it would be useful to remind this dictionary site.

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby snovymgodom » 2009-04-07, 5:40

sen seni sana sende senden senin
سن سنی سكا سنده سندن سنك
o, onu, ona, onda, ondan, onun
او اونی اوكا اونده اوندن اونك


Why are senin and onun written with a kaaf rather than a nuun at the end?

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby kirildjourov » 2009-04-07, 9:08

Hello!

Can you help me to translate some phrases?

سند خاقاني

دفتر خانهء خاقاني

درون تذكره ده محرر رسوماته محسوباَ تسلمات

Thank you very much in advance!!!

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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby kalemiye » 2009-04-07, 18:47

snovymgodom wrote:
sen seni sana sende senden senin
سن سنی سكا سنده سندن سنك
o, onu, ona, onda, ondan, onun
او اونی اوكا اونده اوندن اونك


Why are senin and onun written with a kaaf rather than a nuun at the end?


It is not kef, it is nef, a kind of nasal sound lost in nowadays turkish, but that can still be found in other turkic languages like uyghur.
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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby kalemiye » 2009-04-07, 18:52

kirildjourov wrote:Hello!

Can you help me to translate some phrases?

سند خاقاني

دفتر خانهء خاقاني

درون تذكره ده محرر رسوماته محسوباَ تسلمات

Thank you very much in advance!!!


The last line does not make any sense. it is about a registry and it is supposed to tell its address, but the last line is meaningless.
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Re: Ottoman Turkish عثمانلی توركجه سی

Postby snovymgodom » 2009-04-08, 12:15

renata wrote:
snovymgodom wrote:
sen seni sana sende senden senin
سن سنی سكا سنده سندن سنك
o, onu, ona, onda, ondan, onun
او اونی اوكا اونده اوندن اونك


Why are senin and onun written with a kaaf rather than a nuun at the end?


It is not kef, it is nef, a kind of nasal sound lost in nowadays turkish, but that can still be found in other turkic languages like uyghur.


Odd. On my screen it looks identical to kaaf.
But I think I know what you're talking about. Is it the velar nasal? [N]


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