Turkish Study Group

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-25, 22:51

Saim wrote:I don't really understand Çocuk çok, yatarım yok, oynayan aç ayı yok/Olmayan façası yok or how it relates to the translation provided.

They are three idioms:
1) http://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/hapiste%20yatmak

In Turkish slang, you "lie" in jail*. In that sentence, yatar is used as a noun. The translation makes sense if you slightly change the sentence:
Çocuk, çok yatarın yok.

2) http://tureng.com/en/turkish-english/aç%20ayı%20oynamaz

3) https://www.uludagsozluk.com/k/faça-atmak/

Besides face, faça also means a mark left when you cut yourself or someone else with a razor blade (see also jilet atmak).

*In Serbian, it is also ležati u zatvoru, right? In Russian, we say сидеть в тюрьме.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-26, 9:14

voron wrote:
Saim wrote:I don't really understand Çocuk çok, yatarım yok, oynayan aç ayı yok/Olmayan façası yok or how it relates to the translation provided.

They are three idioms:
1) http://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/hapiste%20yatmak

In Turkish slang, you "lie" in jail*. In that sentence, yatar is used as a noun. The translation makes sense if you slightly change the sentence:
Çocuk, çok yatarın yok.


Why the -ım, though?

*In Serbian, it is also ležati u zatvoru, right? In Russian, we say сидеть в тюрьме.


Yes. In Polish they also say siedzieć w więzieniu, and in Hungarian börtönben ül (jail-in sit).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-26, 9:53

Saim wrote:Why the -ım, though?

On some websites you can find the lyrics with -ın (and that's what I hear, too):
Çocuk, çok yatarın yok.
Dude, your jail term is not long.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-26, 11:17

Thanks!

http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/cultu ... Friendship
http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/fileu ... d_z1e2.pdf

kısa - short
göçmen - immigrant
arasinda - between, amongst
vatandaş - citizen
devam etmek - to continue
hatta - as a matter of fact
göç - migration
x senesinde - in the year x
yarısı - one half
garip - strange (in Urdu the main meaning of غریب is "poor" but according to the dictionary it can also mean "strange", who knew?)
aslında - actually
itibaren - from, beginning from, as of
dolaşım - circulation, roaming
izinleri - permission
birlikte - together
dürüst - honest (in Urdu دُرُست means safe, accurate or correct)
güvenilir - trustworthy
sıkıcı - boring
çıkarcı - selfish

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-26, 17:37

Come to think of it, in Malayalam also, you lie (down) in jail, but I'm not sure whether that's the same thing because the word for 'to lie down' in Malayalam can also just mean 'to remain, be left'. Also I'm not sure it would make much sense in Malayalam without the direct object being specified.

All of these are new to me as well:
Saim wrote:mont - coat
kuruş - a subdivision of lira, equivalent to cents
zıplamak - to jump
depo - (here) tank
kafa - head
heyecan - excitement

kazanmak - to win
kaçarı olmayan nokta - point of no escape (kaçmak - to escape)

I guess I sort of knew kaçmak from ala kachuu but probably forgot, and I totally forgot sanki. :P I've probably seen kazanmak before, too, and maybe even some of these other words. Also:

vurmak - to beat, pound, hit, shoot
kazan kazan - win-win rule?
kaybetmek - to lose (totally forgot this word)
kaçarı yok - there's no escape

And is heyecanı meycanı just reduplication?
oynayan - playing?

:yep:
faça - face
paçayı kurtaran - escaper
hedef - goal

Also:

ayı - bear

Is that all we're doing of this song for now?

From LangMedia, these were also new to me:
Saim wrote:göçmen - immigrant
arasiında - between, amongst
vatandaş - citizen

Also:

sürü - herd, heap
bir sürü - a lot
hatta - as a matter of fact
göç - migration

Also:

parçalanmak - to be separated (I suppose the meaning is pretty clear as long as you know parça, from Serbian if not from Turkish, but I didn't actively know this term or anything)
yarısı - one half
garip - strange (in Urdu the main meaning of غریب is "poor" but according to the dictionary it can also mean "strange", who knew?)

Also:

Ocak - January
itibaren - from, beginning from, as of

Also:

doğal - natural
dolaşım - circulation, roaming
izinleri - permission
birlikte - together

I'd never seen birlikte in Turkish until now, only in Kazakh because it's the very last word of (the chorus of) Kazakhstan's former national anthem, which I memorized as a teenager. :lol: I think there, it means 'in unity'. (Kazakhstan changed its national anthem twelve years ago).

Also:

ortaokul - middle school (again, obvious meaning, but didn't know this term existed in Turkish)

And I forgot the names of the seasons, so :oops:

yaz - summer

And finally, these:
dürüst - honest (in Urdu دُرُست means safe, accurate or correct)
güvenilir - trustworthy

çıkarcı - selfish

This LangMedia video was long!! :shock:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-26, 18:51

vijayjohn wrote:And is heyecanı meycanı just reduplication?

Yes.

Are you guys going to do Dinleme and Yazma exercises from the Istanbul book? Or go directly to the Okuma text Yeni bir hayat?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-26, 19:26

We're not that far yet; we're only on p. 10. :P Unless I misunderstood something.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-27, 5:49

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:And is heyecanı meycanı just reduplication?

Yes.

Are you guys going to do Dinleme and Yazma exercises from the Istanbul book? Or go directly to the Okuma text Yeni bir hayat?


Yeni bir hayat is the name of the chapter. The next okuma is Nereye gideceğiz as far as I can see.

Wıth yazma, I'm only going to make sure I understand the explanation of what the task is, I can't be bothered to do any writing. Dinleme is fine though, the more the better.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-27, 5:55

vijayjohn wrote:I guess I sort of knew kaçmak from ala kachuu but probably forgot, and I totally forgot sanki. :P I've probably seen kazanmak before, too, and maybe even some of these other words. Also:


I knew kaçmak from this song but I didn't recognise it here so I decided to write it out again.

And is heyecanı meycanı just reduplication?


I think so.

Is that all we're doing of this song for now?


Do as much as you want. I only had energy for that much yesterday. :)

parçalanmak - to be separated (I suppose the meaning is pretty clear as long as you know parça, from Serbian if not from Turkish, but I didn't actively know this term or anything)


I did already know this word but because I looked it up at some point (I also have the sentence Sanki bütün kolum parçalanmış gibi! in my cards). I hadn't associated it with Serbian parče. :shock:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-02, 21:19

Hadi, bu hafta (gelecek hafta?) neler yapalız? :P

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-03, 11:34

vijayjohn wrote:neler yapalız? :P

yapalım or yaparız

Hadi beyler, devam edelim!

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-09, 22:16

I guess I'll just try doing some more of the song?

Hah! Temel güvenin yok, illegal, legal, düzenin yok
Para kesesi yok, bekleme, rüzgarın esesi yok
Her şey boş yere tasarı yok, bak büyüdüğün sokakta masalın yok
Hah! Kollarından öte saranın yok
Dirisin ya da ölü arafı yok
Kapımın önünde polisler var
Elinde silahla komiser var
Üstümde, başımda kan izi var
Önümde kocaman valizler var
Bana tepeler, denizler dar
Bi' de sırtımda keneler var
Yarım kalır o şarkılar, bur'da Panda yok, Develer var

Translation from the video:

Hah! You've no basic confidence. You're illegal or legal, have no settled life.
No pouch. Don't wait, wind's not willing to blow.
Everything's meaningless, no new scheme. You grew up on streets, have no fairy tales.*
Hah! Have no one to hold you except your own arms.
You're alive or dead, there is no middle ground!
There're cops in my front door.
A police commissioner with a gun in his hands.
Trail of blood on my everywhere.
Have huge suitcases in front of me.
Hills, seas are nothing to me.
And there're acarids on my back.
Those songs will be left half-done. No panda in here but camels.

*I think "you have no fairy tales on the street(s?) where you grew up" might be a better translation.

New vocab for me:

temel - basic (so that's what it means!!)
güven - trust, confidence
güve - moth (not in the song, just something I found while trying to figure out the right word to look up :lol:)
düzen - settled life?
kese - pouch
rüzgarın esesi yok - wind's not willing to blow?
boş yere - meaningless, for nothing
tasar - scheme
masal - fairy tale
öte - beyond
sarmak - to hug, swaddle, embrace, wrap around (this is where sarma comes from!)
diri - alive
araf - middle ground?
silah - gun
komiser - police commissioner (I barely know what that means even in English :P)
üstümde, başımda - all over me?
kan - blood
iz - trace
kocaman - huge
valiz - suitcase (gee I wonder what language that might come from :silly:)
dar - narrow?
sırt - back
kene - tick (as in the bug)
deve - camel

What does esesi mean? How does it break down into morphemes? (Eses-i? Ese-si?).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-09, 23:47

vijayjohn wrote:What does esesi mean? How does it break down into morphemes? (Eses-i? Ese-si?).

It's es-esi.

Es comes from esmek (to blow).
Esi is the suffix of ancient future, which has restricted use nowadays. One of its uses is in participles (i.e. possessive endings are added to it) in the following two expressions:
(y)esi+(possessive ending) geliyor/gelmiyor
(y)esi+(possessive ending) var/yok

which both mean 'to feel/not feel like'.

Examples:
Bir film izleyesim geliyor - I feel like watching a film.
Hiç çalışasım yok - I don't feel like working at all.

In the 3rd person, (y)esisi is normally contracted to (y)esi:
Onun hiç çalışası yok - He doesn't feel like working at all.

It's described in Lewis's grammar on page 165.

Rüzgarın esesi yok - 'the wind doesn't feel like blowing'.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-10, 5:24

Teşekkürler! :)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-11, 9:02

vijayjohn wrote:Teşekkürler! :)

Rica ederim.

How about this activity guys? Here's a street video where the reporter asks random people to sing an ilahi (a religious song; the Arabic equivalent is nasheed).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8506YHYQqgE

Can we identify the songs that people sing, at least a few of them? They are a part of general culture, so I thought they would be useful to know.

The guy at 0:40: Beş yüz yetmiş birde bir güneş doğdu... (about prophet Muhammad's birthday)
Lyrics: http://xn--ilahiszleri-wfb.com/grup-571 ... o%C4%9Fdu/
A rendition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqjOtO6noAE

I didn't know this ilahi before, and hopefully thanks to it I'll not forget the year of Muhammad's birth again. :)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-13, 0:29

The next one at 1:09 is "Bakma benim günahıma," which I guess is about devout religiosity?

Lyrics: http://xn--ilahiszleri-wfb.com/celaledd ... an%C4%B1m/
A rendition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To2Cq4EielI

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-13, 10:19

1:55 'Güzel Âşık'
Apparently it is written by the famous sufi poet Pir Sultan Abdal.

A rendition with on-screen lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOgJHDcpG2Q

vijayjohn wrote:The next one at 1:09 is "Bakma benim günahıma,"

The guy sings it beautifully in the video. This is how the astonished host comments on his singing:

Abi sanki biri ilahi oku dese de okusam diye bekliyormuşsun ya! - It's like you've been waiting for someone to say 'Sing an ilahi', and you would say 'Let me sing'.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-14, 1:28

Sağol, voron! :)
voron wrote:The guy sings it beautifully in the video.

Well, I'm not sure I'd say the same thing about this guy at 2:13. :lol: But it's "Medine'ye Varamadım."

Lyrics: https://www.mumsema.org/sozler-ve-mesaj ... zleri.html
A rendition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irxsn5bpzpU

This version of the song by Ali Ercan reminds me of late Azerbaijani singer Akif Islamzade's rendition of "Sarı Gəlin."

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-09-14, 14:59

vijayjohn wrote:I'm not sure I'd say the same thing about this guy at 2:13.

Yeah, it wasn't particularly beautiful. :)


I had to look up what "Hacerül Esved" is. Honestly I thought it's a person's name, but apparently it's just الحجر الأسود ("The black stone"), the stone that is located in Kaaba.

I couldn't find the next ilahi at 2:25. Apparently it's an ilahi sung by members of the Sufi order Menzil, which is a branch of Naqshbandi. Seems like members of this order, as a sort of pilgrimage, go to the village Menzil in Turkey, where they eat (in particular soup is a famous dish), talk and pray together. This video is about the pilgrimage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfd1Wp87_i8

Sufi orders actually have great influence on the social and political life of Turkey, but it's kind of hidden, and I only barely scratched the surface of this aspect of Turkey.

2:58 'Şol cennetin ırmakları' - it's a poem by Yunus Emre.

Lyrics: https://www.siir.gen.tr/siir/y/yunus_em ... aklari.htm
A rendition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDk0uLgJvZQ

The next ilahi at 4:05 is the same one. And the one after it is actually in Arabic. Vijay, would you be up to identifying it? You can post it in the Arabic Study Group if you like. :)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-09-17, 5:22

The song at 5:31 is in Turkish again. It's "Medet yâ sahib-el imdât," which I guess is like a love song addressed to God?

Rendition with lyrics in video description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZseUDhvrNc

Also, someone else started singing "Medine'ye varamadım" at 6:00.


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