Turkish Study Group

Moderator: voron

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-07, 17:07

What are i+1 sentences? Sentences that are slightly harder than what you can immediately decipher?

Also, what would we do with this channel? Just try to list out words we're not familiar with, like we do with other materials in this group?

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5368
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-04-07, 17:22

vijayjohn wrote:What are i+1 sentences? Sentences that are slightly harder than what you can immediately decipher?


Yes. In each of the sentences I listed there was only one word I didn't know at all beforehand: vaz geçmek, birden, bilmeden, hatırlamak, koruma. I decided to ignore sentences that were either too easy or too hard.

Also, what would we do with this channel? Just try to list out words we're not familiar with, like we do with other materials in this group?


Sure! I'm going to mostly try working on the sentence level but if you want to list new words that's cool too. :)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-07, 18:42

Having listened to it, now I'm a little tempted to try to decipher the other sentences. :hmm: I feel like this could almost be a good candidate for something to do in the King-Size Translation thread, except for transcription instead of translation (since they're already translated).

EDIT: Btw vazgeçtim is one word as far as I can tell.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5368
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-04-07, 19:41

vijayjohn wrote:Having listened to it, now I'm a little tempted to try to decipher the other sentences. :hmm: I feel like this could almost be a good candidate for something to do in the King-Size Translation thread, except for transcription instead of translation (since they're already translated).


At the moment I'm prioritising breadth of exposure over knowing specific texts really well, and I don't have the energy to go back through the video for what I missed, but if that's something that you'd enjoy go for it. :)

EDIT: Btw vazgeçtim is one word as far as I can tell.


Good eye!

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-09, 6:14

Well, I tried writing out the lines, and this is what I got so far. I'm not sure how much of it I actually got right:

- Evet? Devam etmecek misin cümleni?
- Yok, vazgeçtim.
- Peki böyle bana tepkili davrandığınızın sebebi var mı? Dün holding yere giderken şey normaldı. Sonra birden garip davranmaya başladınız. Bilmeden bir hata yaptım mı?
- Yok, yok. Hiç bir şey yapmadın...Aslında düşünümde, eh, biz ipin ucunu biraz fazla kaçırtık. Yani bu tür mü sağlık olmadığını düşünüyorum ben artık. Sen de zaten bir söz vermiştin hatırlarsan. Sadece korumam olacaktın.
- Teşekkür ederim, hatırlattığınız. Başka bir soru yok ya?
- Yok. Neyse, ben içine geçiyorum.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5368
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-04-09, 10:44

Nice!

vijayjohn wrote:Well, I tried writing out the lines, and this is what I got so far. I'm not sure how much of it I actually got right:

- Evet? Devam etmecek misin cümlenizi?
- Yok, vazgeçtim.
- Peki böyle bana tepkili davranmanızın sebebi var mı? Dün holding yere giderken şey normaldı. Sonra birden garip davranmaya başldınız. Bilmeden bir hata yaptım mı?
- Yok, yok. Hiç bir şey yapmadın...Aslında ben düşünümde, eh, biz ipin ucunu biraz fazla kaçırtık. Yani bu tür mü durumun sağlık olmadığını düşünüyorum ben artık. Sen de zaten bir söz vermiştin hatırlarsan. Sadece korumam olacaktın.
- Teşekkür ederim, hatırlattığınız. Başka bir soru yok ya?
- Yok. Neyse, ben içine içeri geçiyorum.


Here's what I heard.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5368
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-04-09, 17:23

I watched the first five minutes of the BBC video Voron recommended and managed to figure out these two sentences:

Her zaman Rabbimize hamd ederek başlamamız lazım.
We always must start by praising [our] God.

Akşam 9'da işbaşı, sabah 6'da paydos.
Work starts at nine in the evening, ends at six in the morning.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-10, 4:37

I'm going to be lazy and just post the new words I can find from that. :P (Actually, I'm not just being lazy; I was thinking of trying to translate the video at first, but I've probably already given poor voron too many things to check by now...all my mistakes in Kurdish and Turkish in the respective study groups plus the KST thread :whistle:).

hamdetmek - to praise
işbaşı yapmak - to start work
paydos - rest, break

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4846
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-10, 4:46

Adding a few minor corrections (and I had to use VPN to watch this video, because it's not available for viewing in Turkey).

- Evet? Devam etmeyecek misiniz cümlenize?
- Yok, vazgeçtim.
- Peki böyle bana bana böyle tepkili davranmanızın bir sebebi var mı? Dün holdinge yere giderken her şey normaldi. Sonra birden garip davranmaya başladınız. Bilmeden bir hata yaptım ben?
- Yok, yok. Hiç bir şey yapmadın...Aslında ben düşündüm de, eh, biz ipin ucunu biraz fazla kaçırdık. Yani bu durumun sağlık olmadığını düşünüyorum ben artık. Sen de zaten bir söz vermiştin hatırlarsan. Sadece korumam olacaktın.
- Teşekkür ederim, hatırlattığınız için. Başka bir soru yok ya?
- Yok. Neyse, ben içeri geçiyorum.

vijayjohn wrote: (Actually, I'm not just being lazy; I was thinking of trying to translate the video at first, but I've probably already given poor voron too many things to check by now...all my mistakes in Kurdish and Turkish in the respective study groups plus the KST thread :whistle:).

:D Go ahead. Fixing things for Turkish and Kurdish is fun for me.

hamdetmek - to praise

You probably noticed the connection but just in case you didn't I wanted to point out that the first part of this verb is the Arabic حمد، the same hamd as in the expression alhamdulillah.

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2906
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-11, 1:02

voron wrote:
hamdetmek - to praise

You probably noticed the connection but just in case you didn't I wanted to point out that the first part of this verb is the Arabic حمد، the same hamd as in the expression alhamdulillah.

Is hamdetmek mostly used for praising God? Or can you use it in other contexts, such as to praise someone's cooking for example?
Currently away from Unilang.

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2906
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-11, 3:10

I really like this song, so I thought I'd try to translate the lyrics here and hopefully you all will chime in with corrections. It's obviously too advanced for my level so there's a bunch I didn't get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-PmOVdBKk

Bu derdimin dermanı sende kaldı sevgilim
Ne yağmur kâr ediyor ne de güneş gideyim

This is the cure for my pain, you also stayed, my love [why is it not kaldın?]
It's not snowing, nor will I go to the sun :?: :?:

Sensin arzum ümidim başka birşey istemem
Dünyaları verseler neye yarar gülemem

Without you, my wish, my hope, I don't want anything else
What use is all the money in the world, I won't be happy

İşte benim bu dünyam
sensin bana karanlık
Allah rızası için
sona ersin ayrılık

Behold this world of mine
[is] dark to me without you
for God's consent [could it mean "for God's sake"?] :?:
come to an end, separation! :?:

Silinmiyor ne yapsam gözlerimden anılar
Bu aşkıma her gece şahit olur yıldızlar

No matter what I do to wipe the memories from my eyes
Every night the stars witness these tears of mine

Kalbimdeki ateşi bilemezsin söylesem
Aşk derdini çekmedin
çekemezsin birgün sen

I'd say you can't know the fire that is in my heart :?:
You endured the pain of love
One day you won't be able to endure it
Last edited by eskandar on 2019-04-11, 20:18, edited 1 time in total.
Currently away from Unilang.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4846
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-11, 9:01

eskandar wrote:Is hamdetmek mostly used for praising God? Or can you use it in other contexts, such as to praise someone's cooking for example?

It's used only for praising God. In Saim's sentence as well:
Her zaman Rabbimize hamd ederek başlamamız lazım.
We always must start by praising [our] God.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-16, 0:34

Okay, so here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7pkRKnDYrw
It's pretty long (fourteen and a half minutes!), so I think I'll translate it in parts rather than doing the whole thing at once since that would take me forever. :P So instead, I've attempted a translation of the video up to 1:10. I skipped the bismillah part because I think all y'all know even better than I do what that means. :D I did attempt to translate (both variations of) the title, though:

(Title) A "Day" in Bağcılar: The Economy and Conservative Life (Of the Day)

"My God, may you share our food in health! We always must start by praising [our] God...And this is from Çorum: fresh beans my aunt sent me. May God be happy with it! In other words, these are fresh beans she brought up to my own door. We make them like this. We deep-freeze them. She brings them to me every year.

My name is Nurcan Celep. I'm 47 years old. I'm a mother of three children. My hometown is Çorum. I work in textiles as a subcontractor and such...Work starts at nine in the evening, ends at six in the morning. Our salary is 65 million. I am a mother who has never gone to work in all 47 years of my life. 'Why do you work?' you say. There's a debt (to pay) to our house since we got married." :?:

I'm also going to attempt to correct this for no other reason than the fact that no one else has yet. :para: I may be way off, though...and the lyrics already seem a bit oddly worded (I can't seem to find some of the phrases used in it anywhere else!):
eskandar wrote:Bu derdimin dermanı sende kaldı sevgilim
Ne yağmur kâr ediyor ne de güneş...gideyim

This is the cure for my pain, you also stayed, my love [why is it not kaldın?]
It's not snowing, nor will I go to the sun :?: :?:

This strength of my pain stayed in you, dear.
Neither the rain nor the sun profits (from it)...I can go.

(sen de = you, too/also
sende = in you)
Sensin arzum ümidim başka birşey istemem
Dünyaları verseler neye yarar? gGülemem

Without you, You are my wish, my hope, I don't want anything else
What use is all the money in the (would it be) if they gave me their world? I won't be happy

I think 'I won't be happy' is on the right track at the very least, but I also think gülemem literally means 'I can't smile' (or 'I can't laugh'). Here, it might mean something like 'I couldn't smile/be happy.'

sensiz = without you
sensin = you are
İşte benim bu dünyam
sensinz bana karanlık
Allah rızası için
sona ersin ayrılık

Behold this world of mine
[is] dark to me without you
for God's consent [could it mean "for God's sake"?] Yep!
come to an end, separation! May the separation come to an end!

See here for a few translations of Allah rızası için. :)

This time, it seems pretty clear from both the recording of the song and context that *sensin was a typo (even though I also found the lyrics written the same way online).
Silinmiyor ne yapsam gözlerimden anılar
Bu aşkıma her gece şahit olur yıldızlar

No matter what I do to wipe the memories are not wiped away from my eyes
Every night the stars witness these tears this love of mine

Aşk in Turkish means not 'tear' but rather 'love', i.e. عشق (which is kind of weird given the vowel in the Turkish form, right?). Modern Turkish doesn't have اشک‎; instead, it has gözyaşı from göz 'eye' + yaş 'tear'. Ottoman Turkish had eşk as well as آبگینه (âbgîne), آبزه (âbzih), and سرشك (sirişk).
Kalbimdeki ateşi bilemezsin söylesem
Aşk derdini çekmedin
çekemezsin birgün sen

I'd say If I said you can't know the fire (that is) in my heart
You endured wouldn't suffer the pain of love
One day you won't be able to endure it

Dert çekmek apparently means 'to suffer', but I figure 'endure' is close enough.

Lovely song, by the way! :) It reminds me of Persian music. I'll give you three guesses where I'm about to post next. :lol:

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2906
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-21, 5:11

vijayjohn wrote:I'm also going to attempt to correct this for no other reason than the fact that no one else has yet.

Many thanks!

(sen de = you, too/also
sende = in you)

D'oh.......can't get more basic than that...

sensiz = without you
sensin = you are


....apparently it can...

Aşk in Turkish means not 'tear' but rather 'love', i.e. عشق (which is kind of weird given the vowel in the Turkish form, right?).

I get this one wrong just about every damn time the word comes up in my flashcards, too. :headbang:

Thanks for the corrections. Lots of careless mistakes on my part. I'm not embarrassed to mess up the parts I simply didn't understand, but the parts I quoted here was all stuff I should have parsed correctly :oops:
Currently away from Unilang.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-21, 8:28

Nah, that's just how Turkish is: one little letter or space out of place and you have a completely different word! :P I probably mess up little things like that in, like, every language ever? :lol: Even in English sometimes...like I'm not always sure when exactly other English-speakers would use come and when they'd use go instead, because apparently, Malayalam has a different distribution for these verbs.

I think with more practice, you'll be able to avoid mistakes like this more easily, though, especially since you'll get a sense of what to look out for so it doesn't throw you off. :)

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4846
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-21, 10:14

Vijay's corrections to the song are all good :goodjob:. I can add just one more thing:

dünyaları verseler
It's not "their world", it's "worlds" in the accusative. They are homonyms but if it were "their world" it would have the accusative suffix as well: dünyalarını verseler.

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4846
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-21, 10:31

vijayjohn wrote:like I'm not always sure when exactly other English-speakers would use come and when they'd use go instead

You know what, I am still having problems with these words in Turkish! In Russian they are used differently, and I know the difference; but I still get them wrong from time to time.

In Russian, they are used from the viewpoint of the actor. If my friend is travelling to Antalya and I am calling him to ask him if he has arrived yet or not, I will say: Ты уже приехал/прилетел в Анталью? ("Have you come to Antalya"?), no matter if I am in Antalya or not.

In Turkish, they are used from the viewpoint of the speaker. In the situation above, I need to ask: Antalya'ya geldin mi? ("Have you come to Antalya?") if I myself am in Antalya, and: Antalya'ya gittin mi? ("Have you gone to Antalya?") if I am not in Antalya.

EDIT: Wait, this description is wrong, because the answer will echo the question: Geldim, if we are both in Antalya, and Gittim, if we are in different locations. So the verb is chosen based on locations of both interlocutors. Or something like that. :D

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4846
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-21, 14:22

vijayjohn wrote:"My God, may you share our food in health!

It literally means, destine our food with health, that is, something like, bless us with a healthy meal.

these are fresh beans she brought up to my own door.

she grew them in front of her own door

There's a debt (to pay) to our house since we got married."

I think she married her children* (it's about time at the age of 47!), so she says "our house (that is, our family) has a debt because we organized a wedding" (and traditional weddings cost a fortune!).

*Is it a correct expression in English? I mean 'evlendirmek' obviously, to marry with the causative aspect. :)

User avatar
eskandar
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2906
Joined: 2006-12-15, 8:27
Real Name: Eskandar
Gender: male

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-04-21, 15:03

voron wrote:I think she married her children*

*Is it a correct expression in English? I mean 'evlendirmek' obviously, to marry with the causative aspect. :)

For this meaning we'd use "to marry off" in English, as in "she married her children off" (or a circumlocution like "she arranged her children's marriages," etc.)
Currently away from Unilang.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 24180
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-21, 15:09

Thanks, voron! :D
voron wrote:EDIT: Wait, this description is wrong, because the answer will echo the question: Geldim, if we are both in Antalya, and Gittim, if we are in different locations. So the verb is chosen based on locations of both interlocutors. Or something like that. :D

See how confusing it is?! I think English is like Turkish and Malayalam is like Russian. But I'm not sure, of course. :lol:


Return to “Turkish (Türkçe)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest