Turkish Study Group

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-21, 19:40

vijayjohn wrote:I think English is like Turkish and Malayalam is like Russian. But I'm not sure, of course. :lol:

Yes, several Turks, when I got the verb wrong yet again, told me: "But it's just like in English!" Ok, they know better. But it's definitely not like in Russian. :P

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-21, 23:03

Wait, maybe I'm wrong about Malayalam, lol. In Malayalam, it's very normal to talk about "coming there" to an extent I'm not sure it is in English. I think. :silly: And apparently, other native speakers of English have trouble with these verbs, too, and it's not just (you or) me! :o

Anyway! I bet Turks get tripped up by little things sometimes, too. :whistle:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-22, 0:08

vijayjohn wrote:Wait, maybe I'm wrong about Malayalam, lol. In Malayalam, it's very normal to talk about "coming there" to an extent I'm not sure it is in English.

In Russian too. "Пришёл туда" or "приехал туда" is absolutely normal.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-22, 6:12

Anyway, the next part of the video:

Sonra düşündüm taşındım, eşim tek başına bunların üstesinden gelemeyeceği için eşime şöyle dedim "Ben işe başlayacağım. Çalışacağım." Gerçekten de çok zoruna gitti. Dedim ki "Yani hayatı paylaşmak güzel. Ama seninle paylaşmak daha güzel."

Then I thought about it; since my husband wouldn't be able to figure it all out on his own, I said to my husband, "I'll start working. I'll work," and he really took it very hard. I said, "I mean, sharing life is nice. :?: But sharing it with you is better!"

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-04-28, 13:35

vijayjohn wrote:Then I thought about it; since my husband wouldn't be able to figure it all out on his own, I said to my husband, "I'll start working. I'll work," and he really took it very hard. I said, "I mean, sharing life is nice. :?: But sharing it with you is better!"

This is correct. Why did you put the question mark? Doesn't it make sense in English?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-04-28, 17:36

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Then I thought about it; since my husband wouldn't be able to figure it all out on his own, I said to my husband, "I'll start working. I'll work," and he really took it very hard. I said, "I mean, sharing life is nice. :?: But sharing it with you is better!"

This is correct. Why did you put the question mark? Doesn't it make sense in English?

Because I have no idea what she means. It sounds like she's contrasting sharing life with her husband vs. sharing her life with someone else? But who is the "someone else"? Who is she talking about sharing her life with if not her husband especially if she's already married off all her kids? Or has she only married off some of them?

Next part:

Gerçekten eşim çok mükemmel bir insandır. Şimdiye kadar bizi hiçbir zaman ekonomik sıkıntısı... Komşularım daha iyi bilir bize bunları hissettirmemiş insana. "Nasıl ben destek olmam?" dedim. "Nereye gidelim, nereye gidelim?" derken bunlar aklıma geldi. Hele gece hayatı... Asla. Ben bir hafta gittiğimde eşimin gözleri dolu dolu beni işe gönderdiği anlara şahit oldum.

My husband is actually a really great guy. So far, he's never [troubled?] us with financial difficulties. My neighbors know them better than people like us who don't feel them. :?: "How can I not help out?" I said. I kept thinking about them, "Where should I go, where should I go?" Definitely not nightlife...never. :?: I saw with my own eyes the times that my husband dropped me off at work with his eyes welling up with tears because I'd be gone for a week.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-05-05, 16:15

Just discovered this resource, it has lots of short clips from Disney films with both subtitles and translations!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxnGgA05C2w

Today I studied this video.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-06, 0:56

Then I'll try to list new vocabulary from it. :)

konuk - guest
bitirmek - to finish (okay, I already kinda knew this word, but eh :P)
tam - whole
çılgınlık - madness
yaşamak - to go through (among other meanings)
pekala = peki?
resmen - officially
bulunuyor - (something like 'is in the state of', apparently)
yemin etmek - to take an oath
köpekbalığı - shark
beyin - brain
pis - dirty
yunus - dolphin
hariç - excluding
sevimli - cute
numara - trick, stunt
madde - subject
yalan - lie
aynen - ditto
sıra - row, line
Sırada (kim var)? - (Who's) next?
Söz sende - The floor is yours
itiraf etmek - to confess
rahatlamak - to feel relieved
ahbap - dude, buddy, friend, chap, etc. (but also beggar)
palyaço - clown
fıkra - joke
bayılmak (after noun in dative case) - to really like
doğru (also after noun in dative case) - near, closer to
dalgıç - diver
zavallı - poor
örnek - exemplary
sarılmak - to hug
Kes! - Cut it out!
kanamak - to bleed

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-05-06, 14:29

I've commented on the etymologies of some of these words, in other cases associating them with other words within Turkish or with similar expressions in other languages. Since you've studied all the languages mentioned I think you could get something out of this too.

vijayjohn wrote:tam - whole


From Arabic تَامّ, related to Arabic تمام, whence also Turkish tamam (complete, "OK!") and Urdu تمام (all, whole).

yaşamak - to go through (among other meanings)


Reminds me of Polish przeżyć, which can mean either "survive" or "experience".

resmen - officially


From Arabic رَسَمَ (to record; رسمي official, رسميا officially). Related to Hebrew רִשְׁמִי (official).

köpekbalığı - shark


Similar to Serbian morski pas ("sea dog"), although the Old Norse loan ajkula is IME a bit more common at least in the spoken language in Serbia.

hariç - excluding


From Arabic خارج (outside).

numara - trick, stunt


Clearly from a Romance language, although Nişanyan can't decide whether this is from Italian or French.

madde - subject


From Arabic مادة (matter, material), whence also Urdu مادہ.

aynen - ditto


In other contexts it seems to mean something more like "in the same way" or "likewise".

itiraf etmek - to confess


Urdu اِعتراف, from Arabic إعتراف. Verbal noun of اِعْتَرَفَ (to confess), from the same root as عَرَفَ‎ (to know).

palyaço - clown


Italian paglaccio (clownfish - pesce pagliaccio). Catalan peix pallasso, Spanish pez payaso. What's interesting is that this was borrowed into Catalan and Spanish through French paillasse, although in French the normal term for a clown is the Anglicism clown. Turkish got it directly from Italian.

fıkra - joke


From Arabic فقرة. Wiktionary gives the second meaning of this word as "the finest couplet in a poem, choicest saying in rhymed prose", which is where I imagine the Turkish meaning came from.

bayılmak (after noun in dative case) - to really like


Literally to faint, I found the following fragment in a novel on Google Books:

bayılmış olmalıyım
I must have fainted. :?:

dalgıç - diver


dalmak - to dive
dalga - wave

zavallı - poor


From Arabic زوالي, derived from the verb زَالَ (to go away, abandon, disappear).

Kes! - Cut it out!


kesmek also literally means "to cut"! Funny coincidence for a language so distant from English.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby eskandar » 2019-05-06, 23:46

A couple others with Arabic/Persian etymologies:

Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
aynen - ditto


In other contexts it seems to mean something more like "in the same way" or "likewise".

From Arabic عيناً , from عين in its sense of "exactly the..." or "the right..."

yemin etmek- to take an oath

From Arabic يمين "right".

pis - dirty

From Persian پیس "vile, ignoble".

yunus - dolphin

From Arabic يونس "Jonah" !

rahatlamak - to feel relieved

From Persian راحت "comfortable", from Arabic راحة .

ahbap - dude, buddy, friend, chap, etc. (but also beggar)

From Arabic احباب "friends, beloveds".
Currently away from Unilang.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-07, 7:43

Wow, thanks for all the etymologies! I love looking up word etymologies just in general. I often find that they help words stick in my brain. :D

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2019-05-07, 7:46

Thanks Eskandar!

vijayjohn wrote:Wow, thanks for all the etymologies! I love looking up word etymologies just in general. I often find that they help words stick in my brain. :D


Me too! One of the things I love about Turkish is all the connections to other languages I've studied.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-05-07, 13:16

vijayjohn wrote:It sounds like she's contrasting sharing life with her husband vs. sharing her life with someone else? But who is the "someone else"?

She just phrased it awkwardly. She meant something like "but I don't want it to be a one-sided sharing, I want to contribute as well".

Komşularım daha iyi bilir bize bunları hissettirmemiş insana. "Nasıl ben destek olmam?" dedim.

It should be punctuated a bit differently.
Komşularım daha iyi bilir. "Bize bunları hissettirmemiş insana nasıl ben destek olmam?" dedim.

My neighbors know better. I said "How can I not support someone who never made us feel them (=financial difficulties)"?

Hele gece hayatı... Asla.

Definitely not nightlife...never.

I don't really know what she means here, that working at night is unacceptable to her maybe?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-09, 3:40

Yeah, I figure she meant something like that. Maybe she meant that her husband already had so much trouble with her being away for one week, let alone every night.
Saim wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Wow, thanks for all the etymologies! I love looking up word etymologies just in general. I often find that they help words stick in my brain. :D


Me too! One of the things I love about Turkish is all the connections to other languages I've studied.

I think I'm getting to the point where I see this with all kinds of languages, but yeah, it does help that Ataturk's language reform was not that successful. :lol: The morphological/syntactic similarities with Dravidian don't hurt for me, either. I think learning character etymologies in Chinese was what really made me try to track down etymologies more often.

Here's the next part of the video:

Ekonomik kriz şöyle etkiledi. Mesela benim bir günlüğümde matematiksel hesaplara ben çok takılırım. Benim en büyük evin ihtiyacı nedir? Çaydır. Yağdır. Şekerdir. Bunlar evde varsa ufak tefek de olsa idare edersin ama 23 milyona aldığım yağ bugün 37 milyon olduysa benim bir günlüğüme neler sığdırabilirim ben? Bir teneke yağ alacağım ben. Şekeri alamayacağım bu sefer de. Bu bir ağırdır. Benim iki kişilik şu anda borçlarım var. Düşün, 6 kişilik aile ne yapıyor?

This is how the economic crisis affected us: For example, I really keep track :?: of the mathematical calculations for my expenses in a day. What is the biggest need I have for the house? It's tea. It's oil. It's sugar. If these are at home, even if there's only a little bit, we can make ends meet, but if the oil I bought for 23 million is 37 million today, what can I squeeze into my expenses for one day? I'll buy a canister of oil. I won't be able to buy sugar this time. This is a difficulty. I have debts (to pay) for two people right now. Just think: What is a family of six people to do?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-05-10, 13:19

vijayjohn wrote:Mesela benim bir günlüğümde matematiksel hesaplara ben çok takılırım.
For example, I really keep track :?: of the mathematical calculations for my expenses in a day.

'Takılmak' is something like 'to be hooked on', 'to be keen on', 'be obsessed with'.

I'm keen on making mathematical ( :D ) calculations of my daily expenses.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-05-15, 0:37

Thanks! :)

Next part:

Ekonomi demek üretim demek. Bizim üretimimiz yok; ben köylü kızıyım, mesela eskiden pancar ekerdik, mercimek ekerdik, nohut ekerdik. Günlüklere giderdik orada da. Oradan da bayâ bir şey alırdık. Şimdi markete gittiğimde poşeti elime alıyorum 'Acaba bizim mi yabancının mı?'. Bir bakıyorum yabancı. Durmadan üretmeyen ithal eden bir ülke sizce kalkınabilir mi? Kalkınamaz. Ki Türkiye demek, Anadolu demek. Her şeyiyle mükemmel, hayvancılığımızla, tarımımızla... Tarımımız şu anda yok. Marmaris'te jeepiyle gezen sosyete adam da alıyor 5 buçuk milyona mazotun litresini köyde eli tezekli, nasırlı traktör süren insan da çiftçi de 5 buçuk milyona. Bu adalet mi sizce?

Economy means production. We're not producing anything; I'm a village girl, (so) for example, we used to plant turnips, plant lentils, plant chickpeas. And we went for our daily chores there and really took a lot from there. :?: Now, when I go to the market, I take my bag into my hand (and think), "Is it ours or foreign?" I see one that's foreign. Do you think an importing country without steady production can progress? It can't progress. Because Turkey means Anatolia. It's perfect for everything, for our livestock, for our agriculture...We don't have any agriculture right now. Even a man about town riding around in a jeep in Marmaris takes a liter of gas at 5 and a half million in a village with his hands are covered in cowdung, and some stupid farmer guy driving a tractor does at 5 and a half million, too. :?: Do you think this is fair?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-05-29, 15:24

vijayjohn wrote:Günlüklere giderdik orada da. Oradan da bayâ bir şey alırdık.
And we went for our daily chores there and really took a lot from there.


This is how I understand it:
Günlük here means a job where you get paid at the end of each day.
Oradan da baya bir şey alırdık - we earned quite good money there as well.

nasırlı traktör süren insan
and some stupid farmer guy driving a tractor

Why stupid? :) Nasır is callus (his hand are calloused).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-07-05, 5:07

voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:nasırlı traktör süren insan
and some stupid farmer guy driving a tractor

Why stupid? :) Nasır is callus (his hand are calloused).

I have barely any idea what a callus is, so I'm not really sure why she specifically mentions it for a hypothetical person. :P I didn't realize she meant it literally.

Anyway, this time, I'm just doing a short part:

Hayvancılık. Ablamlar hayvanlara bakıyorlar. Torbanın yemi 100 lira. 15 tane malı var, hayvanları var. Ne yapar bu biliyor musun? Hesap et. 15 tane mal. 100 milyon (100 TL) günlük olarak yemiş olsa ne kadar tutar mesela? Ne yapıyoruz biz?

Husbandry. My older sisters look after animals. Feed from the bag is 100 lira. There are 15 units of property, animals. You know what this does? Work it out. 15 units of property. If, for example, we make 100 million (100 TL) a day, how much does that add up to? What do we do?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2019-08-23, 9:46

vijayjohn wrote:Ablamlar hayvanlara bakıyorlar.

Ablamlar is "my sister's family". Ablalarım though is "my older sisters" (note the affix order).

15 tane malı var

Mal here is another word for "hayvan".

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-09-01, 20:53

Elin beğenmediği, sağda solda gezen deli danalarını, deli mallarını getiriyoruz buraya. Asla yemiyorum. Asla yemiyorum. Zaten o eti göremiyoruz da! Ne yapıyoruz? Kurban Bayramı'nda işte komşum...komşumun verdiği eşime, Allah kabul etsin, kurbanlarını da bu arada, onların verdiklerini dolaplara koyuyoruz, onları yiyoruz. Paran olduğu zaman gidip alabilir misin? Güvenemiyorum. Acaba ne eti?

We bring mad cows, mad animals here that we didn't like nearby :?: walking left and right. I never eat them. I never eat them. We don't even see that meat in the first place! What do we do? The animals that my neighbor...my neighbor here gives my husband for Eid al-Adha (Kurban Bayramı), may Allah accept it, we put them in the cage :?: they gave us (and) eat them. Can you go get it when you have money? I can't rely on it. What meat, I wonder?


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