Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby voron » 2018-02-20, 18:44

Karavinka wrote:Please feel free to correct as you see fit.

Perhaps you should post on lang-8 if you want corrections. I am the only one to correct here (if Multiturquoise doesn't show up), but I don't like correcting stuff, even in my native Russian.

I'll just note one interesting thing:
Bir hafta boyunca hava oldukça sıcaktı.

You cannot have a subject-less sentence in Turkish (unless the verb is passive), and you cannot have a dummy "it" as a subject -- that's why they say "the rain is raining" etc.

UPD: And one more thing (since you used it twice):
bunua "sıcak" demek oldukça normal

to call A B is A'ya B demek

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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-21, 10:02

2675 Kart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SIYD4e2FFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_InFXHbUL2U
And for mining purposes: http://kimyasal-reaksiyon.nedir.org/

For whatever reason, I find the main speaker of these series to be pretty easy to understand. Not all, but maybe 50-70% and enough to follow along, and pick up new words along the way. He does speak a bit slowly while he's explaining and writing, and the video certainly helps.

Why chemistry though? I kinda wanted to know how they read the chemical notations. CO2 is /co iki/, NaCl is like /nacıl/ according to this speaker. I expected /ce o/ or /na ce el/, but well, surprise.


And I started taking a peek at a third grade Türkçe textbook, thanks to voron. The book has the following TOC:

1. Tema: Birey ve Toplum
Kırlangıcın dostluğu
Anne
Şakacı fil
Çiftçi ve oğulları
Bütün çocuklar dondurma sever

2. Tema: Atatürk
Atatürk'ün yaşam öyküsü
Atatürk'ün doğa sevgisi
29 Ekim
Gözüm arkada kalmayacak
Cumhuriyet

3. Hayal gücü
Rüya bahçesi
Masal çocuk
Rengini arayan top
Gökkuşağından bir dünya
Ayçiçeği

Third grade seems about right. I do need to look up quite a bit of words, but it's not to a straining level. I've read the first story, Kırlangıcın dostluğu, whose full text is cut off in pieces and found way into Anki. While it is a children's story, it's meant to be moralizing and that makes it interesting. Once you start overthinking about what kind of value system the school wants the children to have, you can actually start having fun with such school books. I'm quite curious about the 2nd theme as well.

voron wrote:
Karavinka wrote:Please feel free to correct as you see fit.

Perhaps you should post on lang-8 if you want corrections. I am the only one to correct here (if Multiturquoise doesn't show up), but I don't like correcting stuff, even in my native Russian.


Neh, that's fine. Feel free to, but don't feel obliged to. I can kind of see myself doing more of these later.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-22, 3:50

2728 Kart

Bu noktaya... sonuçta geldim. 200'ün ötesinde beni beklenen bir dünyada titriyorum.

Image

Anki: Sivil, sorun var mı? Mutlusuz hissediyorsun mu acaba? Mutluluk yükümdür.
Karavinka: Ben her zaman mutluyum! Bu kadar çok çalışabileceğim için çok mutluyum! Ne kadar mutlu birisim!
Anki: Peki.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-23, 15:47

2820 Kart

Sanırım bana dilleri veya onların öğrenmeyi betimlemek için sözcük henüz yeterli değil. Ama Türkçe grameri Türkeçe'de okuyorsam bile, bu bir anlamda kurallara aykırı olur, değil mi? Bu kural ne kadar anlamsız saçmalık olursa olsun bile, henüz kırmak istemem de. Napıyorum ben? İnternette diğer dillerin gramerlerini aramaya ne dersim?
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-24, 8:04

2875 Kart

Biraz oynarken çalışmaya ne dersin? Amacı sadece bu: günlük çalışma bittikten sonra, yarının çalışması 200'ün üstunde kalmalı. Eğer kart toplanmayı hızlandırıyorsam, bu kaçınılmaz olabilir. Neden sadece eğlenmıyorum ki?

Why not make this into a little game. The goal is simple, not to let the next day's review count fall below 200. If I accelerate the card accumulation, this is inevitable, why not enjoy.



I'm also trying to throw in some cloze deletions. The oldest clozed card is actually from Jan 21, so it's been a while, but I've been slow in adding them because I didn't really know what I wanted to cloze. As I attempt to write, I am noticing certain areas where I have my doubts. I don't want to add tons of clozes; I just need to pinpoint the areas where I feel like I must be making mistakes.

Currently, 64 cards are clozed. Though I'm only quoting the clozed parts below, they're parts of a longer cards where the context makes the answers sufficiently clear. Say, the first example's answer might as well be olduğunu instead, if the contexts weren't clear.

Kimse geçmişte ne old[...]u bilmiyor!
---------------------
olduğumu

Seni gör[...]m an Lanetli Göz'üm kaderimizi bana gösterdi.
---------------------
gördüğüm

Beni yanlış anlama. Sadece onları satmak için değerli olac[...]ı düşünüyorum.
---------------------
olacağını

The first group is of the verbal nouns, -ik. I think this would be something introduced near the end of a beginner textbook not to scare the learners too much, only to make them despair once they see the real Turkish.

Ama gözüm[...] gördüm. Aramızdaki bağlantı tamamlandı. Karanlığın kalbini paylaşıyoruz artık. Ruhlarımız bağlandı.
---------------------
gözümü

Ben en iyi[...] akşam yemeğini hazırlayayım.
---------------------
iyisi

Bu da sonuncu[...].
---------------------
sonuncusu

Another is the genitive. Say, "my eye saw" -- -üm already expresses the first person possession, what is the second ? I don't know. It's just the way it is. I have a feeling that this might be related to the idea of definiteness.

Havalı! Eğer onu arkana tak[...]n çok süper olurdu!
---------------------
taksaydın

Onlara çöp ol[...]ını söyledim ve dokunmayın dememe rağmen...
---------------------
olduklarını

And miscellaneous.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-26, 7:24

3000 Kart

Image

Ne bekliyordum başka? Durum daha da kötüleştiryordu.

2k statistics from a previous post:

102 Days since the deck was created
Studied 99% -- 101 of 102 days.
Total 13076 reviews
Average 130.8 reviews / day

Total review time: 72 hours
Average daily review time: 43.3 minutes/day
Average answer time: 19.8s per card

Added total: 2000 cards
Added average: 19.4 cards/day


And now, 3k statistics:

125 Days since the deck was created (122%)
Studied 99% - 124 of 125 days.
Total: 19425 reviews (148%)
Average 156.7 reviews / day (119%)

Total review time: 104 hours (144%)
Average daily review time: 50.7 minutes/day (117%)
Average answer time: 19.4s per card

Added total: 3000 cards
Added average: 24.0 cards/day


Image

So, the deck size increased by +50%. The total review count and the time increased in proportion, although the average daily review count and time only increased by +20%... though this is still a significant increase since the statistics is of the entire deck life. As of now, exactly 1100 cards are labeled "young", which means the 1,000 which were added in the last 23 days are still young and will come back. Since I do not see a significant change in the average answer time per card, does that mean I'm going to be facing even more reviews just bombarding me?

Kim bilir? Bakalım. En azından plandan öncede kalıyordum.

This second phase will last until either:

- I hit 4000 cards in Anki, or
- the date is March 31,

whichever happens first.


Ayrıca, Şubat senesi en kısa aydır, bu yüzden biraz merak ettim ama görünüşe göre sorun yokmuş. Eğer bu şekilde devam ediyorsam, Mart ayısın içerinde 4000'a ulaşabilirim. Neye karşı savaşacağımı bilmiyorum ama daha fazla savaşabileceğim.

Ben bir oyuncuyum. Video oyunlarının anlamında diyorum. Bence, bu istatikler RPG oyunlarından tecrübe puanlari gibi geliyor. Her an bir sayı yükselse, kahramanların öncekilerden daha kuvvetleniyor. Aynı bir şekilde, her an desteye yeni kartları eklerek, Türkçe'm kuvvetleniyor. Bu hissi seviyorum.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-26, 17:43

3012 Kart

Not much card since the last post since it was just last night, just something I noticed while clearing off some morning reviews.

Hangi kayıt yüklensin?
Bu kayıtı mı yükleyeceksin?


Seems like an important minimal pair or a giant false alarm that will make me waste a lot of glucose.



And I made a slight adjustment to the Anki's review schedule: Now the Turkish deck operates with 80% interval modifier. This can be found on the deck options, and this directly modifies the interval that Anki generates. So, by making it 80%, Anki will show me a card in 8 days instead of 10. This is because I'm quite sure I'm not using Anki the way it was originally intended: while the new cards of course contain new information, it is the old cards that gain more meaningful, and retainable information in the light of newer cards.

Günışığı gösteriyor gölgeleri, alacakaranlık renk değiştiriyor. (Oct 26)
Her şeyi mahvedebilirim. Ne kadar istemesem de. (Nov 11)

For example, the second instances of the highlighted words only came yesterday. Now they are not the problematic hapax legomena. It's a bit hard to explain, but these two words were like gaps with little information contents, as they could not be associated with anything. Now they do, the cards contain more information, but these old cards need to keep coming back at a regular interval. On that note, the maximum interval is also set to 180 days, so every card will come back at least once every six months. The longest interval is currently 5.2 months, and half a year seems good enough. I may raise this back to Anki default, but much later.

Anki doesn't seem to modify the existing intervals upon making this change, so this change will only effect the reviews and the intervals generated from now.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-27, 7:53

3060 Kart

One common problem with the "writing practice" is that one just runs out of things to write. I think I found a good use of the textbooks that voron linked. (Thank you again!) The one I chose is:

İlköğretim Türkçe 3
1. Kitap
Nova

The stories are, frankly, not a terribly good source for mining cards. But being school texts, I assume they are written (or chosen) not only to help children learn to read, but also to convey a certain system of value. I will react to them, but one thing: I'm not going to withhold my judgment. I may appreciate the message of a certain text, and I may call total bullshit on something else. After all, I'm not in the mood to reeducate myself to become a Turk.

But whether I like a story or not is not important at all. To me, when I read a text, it's more important (and more interesting) to think about who wrote this for what purpose, rather than what is written in it. Being a school text, I can at least assume this is meant to reflect the normative value system that the Turkish education wants to promote, and that alone makes it interesting to observe.

And of course, my writings will be below the third grade as my Turkish needs to evolve with it. Well, at least the words I use are mine; while I do use the online dictionary to check spelling, I try not to use the dictionary to find out a new word that I don't know how to say in Turkish, because that will much more likely to be just the wrong word. I don't know how often I'll post things like these, as they do demand quite some time and energy. But let this be the preface for +3000 milestone, and let's see how it goes.


Kırlangıcın Dostluğu

Konu: Arkadaşlık

Bir kırlangıç onun dostunun bulmak istiyor, fakat o dost, meşe ağacı, ormanda yoktu çünkü insanlar onu kesti ve masa yapılmıştı. Ama bu masa, insanalra işe yararlı olduğunu için mutluydu. Bence sorun burada.

Doğal varlıklar, insanlara yararlı olmak için var mı? Bu bakış açısı, ne kadar yaygın olsa bile, bana biraz şüpheli geliyor.

Şakacı Fil

Konu: İntikam Adalet

Şaka yapmak seviyen bir fil, başka hayvanların tarafından kötü bir şakayı uğraşmaktan sonra daha kötü şakalar yapmayacağına yemin etmiş.

Birincisi, bu tamamen lex talionis.
İkincisi, hikayede betimlenmiş bu 'şaka' bayağı tehlikeli görünüyor. Fil ölebiliyordu. Gerçekten bunu çocuklar için yazılmış mı?
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby voron » 2018-02-27, 20:11

Congrats on 3000 cards!

Karavinka wrote:Bu kayıtı mı yükleyeceksin?

The normative spelling is kaydı.

Bir kırlangıç onun dostunun bulmak istiyor, fakat o dost, meşe ağacı, ormanda yoktu çünkü insanlar onu kesti ve masa yapılmıştıtı. Ama bu masa, insanlara işe yararlı* olduğunu için mutluydu. Bence sorun burada.

Doğal varlıklar, insanlara yararlı olmak için mi var ? Bu bakış açısı, ne kadar yaygın olsa bile, bana biraz şüpheli geliyor.

*birine yararlı olmak or birinin işine yaramak.

Aslında ben bu hikayeyi okuduktan sonra aklıma başka bir fikir geldi. Hikayenin bize öğrettiği, kendi ihtiyaçlarımıza öncelik vermektense topluma yararlı olmak. Yani Parti bize ne dese onu yapmalıyız. :)

Şaka yapmakyı seviyen bir fil, başka hayvanların tarafından düzenlenen kötü bir şakayıa uğraşmakdıktan sonra bir daha kötü şakalar yapmayacağına yemin etmiş.

Birincisi, bu tamamen lex talionis.
İkincisi, hikayede betimlenmiş bu 'şaka' bayağı tehlikeli görünüyor. Fil ölebiliyordu. Gerçekten bunu çocuklar için mi yazılmış?


Btw why did you decide to start working on production? You mentioned that based on your experience with Japanese, you would rather postpone developing productive skills until you accumulate thousands of hours of listening; otherwise you would make mistakes which would later be difficult to eradicate.

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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-28, 6:41

3087 Kart

voron wrote:Congrats on 3000 cards!

Btw why did you decide to start working on production? You mentioned that based on your experience with Japanese, you would rather postpone developing productive skills until you accumulate thousands of hours of listening; otherwise you would make mistakes which would later be difficult to eradicate.


Thanks! And I appreciate the correction, I think something clicked about the confusing placement of the question particle mi.

The reason is that I wanted to try it. Even as basic and error-prone it is now, I feel quite different when I try to write Turkish compared to other languages I learned by the book. Say, I cannot really think of the grammatical rules because I don't know the rules. Sure, there are my guesses but I've been purposefully avoiding my old grammar notes which were largely bare morphology anyways. When it comes to how those morphemes fit together to create a meaningful sentence, I can only depend on my gut.

I'm not conscious about the grammar, probably because I don't have the grammar to be conscious of. I just think about what I want to say and try to recall something -- a pattern -- that I can emulate. This feels very different from, say, writing in French or German.

And even at this basic stage, I find myself attempting to think in Turkish. It doesn't always go well of course, and it's not like I'm forcing myself to consciously do so. My brain just wants to produce Turkish. Honestly, it's strange. I'm still more expressive in French, but I just don't feel my brain gravitating towards French, even in Montreal. Whereas with Turkish, I need to withhold myself, to suppress Turkish when I should be using a different language. Even. Right. Now. I don't know what to call the unconscious drive, but it probably is why I am cutting down other projects to make more room just for Turkish.

It's weird, and I'll need to see how this goes. I may stop writing practices soon enough, if I feel like this is getting dangerous. Or I may push it further to make this thread go monolingual. I honestly don't know and cannot plan ahead.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-28, 21:19

3128 Kart


Ah, Saturday. I recently changed my phone's primary language to Turkish, and out of curiosity, I checked a few news articles. It seems that I can catch the gist of what's being reported, though it's still quite dicey. I was reading about a gym teacher, a schoolgirl and her sister, and I would not have been able to follow if I didn't recognize the word taciz. The word appeared once in the deck.

And wasting life on YouTube. The comprehension rate fluctuates between 50 and 80%. I often played stuff in the background from early on, it seems I can at least pick up most words that are familiar to me if spoken clearly with no background noises. Not having to deal with the prepositions made of single consonants or liaison between words certainly helps.


Uygur pazarında Türkçe konuşarak alışveriş deneyimi
"Anlaşabiliyoruz"? Come on, if the man has to show you the number on the calculator it doesn't seem like you really understood each other. Well, anlaşmak means "to have a deal/agree", so I guess in that sense right.

2. Yabancı Dil olarak hangi dili öğrenmeli?
This man speaks quite fast, but the pronunciation sounds quite clear to me. The more interesting part was the comments section, though, as Arabic was a small minority and the majority seem to recommend the major European languages, followed by the Far Eastern.

One comment pickup: Korece olmalı bence çünkü korece bir türkün öğreneceği en kolay dil -- For one reason or another, it seems the other Turkic languages don't even come as candidates. Whether because of not caring at all, or because they're just dialects of Turkish.

İKİNCİ YABANCI DİL - HANGİ DİLİ ÖĞRENMELİSİNİZ?
I can't believe Ura-Altaic and even Altaic is still passing as a concept. And Hangi Korece? Is that even a valid question that gives a learner a serious question in Turkey? No, the speaker dismisses one of them. That said, even as the speaker groups Turkish, Japanese adn Korean as "Altaic" and thus similar, no mention is made of the other Turkic. Hm, maybe this suggests a general attitude towards them.

Most beautiful comment: Java dilini öğrenmek istiyorum hocam her yerde kullanılıyor TRUTH

Öğrenilmesi En Zor 8 Dil
It lists Korean and Japanese and I kind of understand if that was made for English-speaking audiences, but it seems quite a few comments seem to disagree with their inclusion. Well, if I saw Turkish listed on a video made for the Japanese or Koreans, I'd probably disagree. And Polish and Thai, um... I think you're confusing "scary" and "hard." And who are you to complain about long words coming out of agglutination.

Most beautiful comment: (Japonca hakkında) Anime İzleyince Kolay Gelir I swear this isn't me.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby voron » 2018-02-28, 22:04

Karavinka wrote:I can't believe Ura-Altaic and even Altaic is still passing as a concept.


Well, Turks have their own idea about lingustics. Most people -- those who have an idea about language families -- are 100% sure that the Altaic language family is an established fact. I had a hard time explaining that it's not a widely accepted theory. I guess it's what mass media teaches people... (you can often hear on TV that Turks, Japanese and Korean are brothers).

Also their knowledge of English is a complete disaster. I worked in a software company with about 40 people, and only a couple knew English relatively well. Others created sentences like "your name what?". Interestingly enough, I see many more Syrians with a decent knowledge of English than Turks. I guess it's a combination of two factors: better teaching and structural closeness of Arabic and English. Many of my Turkish friends complained that they have trouble understanding the concept of creating relative clauses with that.

Speaking of Arabic: it's aggravating how Arabic dialects are not considered worth learning by the whole Turkish academia. There are no books; and I think dialects are not taught at universities either. Given that this country currently hosts more than 3 mln Syrians (official number), it's a very unfortunate fact.

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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-02-28, 22:48

voron wrote:
Karavinka wrote:I can't believe Ura-Altaic and even Altaic is still passing as a concept.


Well, Turks have their own idea about lingustics. Most people -- those who have an idea about language families -- are 100% sure that the Altaic language family is an established fact. I had a hard time explaining that it's not a widely accepted theory. I guess it's what mass media teaches people... (you can often hear on TV that Turks, Japanese and Korean are brothers).

Also their knowledge of English is a complete disaster. I worked in a software company with about 40 people, and only a couple knew English relatively well. Others created sentences like "your name what?". Interestingly enough, I see many more Syrians with a decent knowledge of English than Turks. I guess it's a combination of two factors: better teaching and structural closeness of Arabic and English. Many of my Turkish friends complained that they have trouble understanding the concept of creating relative clauses with that.

Speaking of Arabic: it's aggravating how Arabic dialects are not considered worth learning by the whole Turkish academia. There are no books; and I think dialects are not taught at universities either. Given that this country currently hosts more than 3 mln Syrians (official number), it's a very unfortunate fact.


Why am I not shocked. I actually remember "Ural-Altaic" being a thing back in the 90s in South Korea, as I was still going to school there back then, and it's not rare to find people who still believe that. (After all, that's what the school taught them) I heard that's not the case anymore in South Korean schools now at least.

And that also reminds me of this video I laughed as I watched it a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh17FAdXw78&

I don't think this is a purposeful editing, this is what I'd expect from the South Koreans. I guess the propaganda is mutual, though I don't have the faintest idea what purpose it serves. I mean, I guess it's better than hate propaganda, I don't really mind this, it's not harmful -- just puzzling. On the Korean side, the commonly cited reasons include the ancient Göktürk-Koguryo alliance against China and Turkey's participation in the Korean War.

And the whole idea of the relative clauses IS very difficult if your language incorporates everything into the main clause. I had that problem, I had students that had that problem, I can't really blame that.

Regarding Arabic in Turkey -- I'll spare my words. I don't know much about the situation, and generally I'm not a fan of criticizing domestic affairs of other nations.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby voron » 2018-03-01, 4:06

Karavinka wrote:I mean, I guess it's better than hate propaganda, I don't really mind this, it's not harmful -- just puzzling.

Yeah sure, and it has some nice benefits, such as:
- The entry to Japan is visa-free for Turks (and reciprocally)
- Japanese is taught at İSMEK, free government courses for professional eduation.
At these courses, you can choose from dozens of offices, and dozens of educational programs - from knitting to woodwork to languages to music. Here is the full list of programs:
http://www.ismek.ist/tr/branslar3.aspx

And here is the list of languages (it has both Japanese and Korean!):
http://www.ismek.ist/tr/brans_alan.aspx?alanId=27

(The courses accept foreigners as well; so it's a pretty cool opportunity to socialize and use Turkish in an academic environment for free.)

There is no lack of interesting videos in Turkish on youtube, but let me mildly suggest a channel that I like a lot:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCsECvuwn_UviZl-nvq7uflQ

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Karavinka
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-03-03, 6:33

3279 Kart

Özbilinç, gurur, amaç, kararlılık, hepsi sahte, bomboşluk, boşuna çalışma. Baksana, gülünç bir piyero sen. Baştan senin yazdığın şeyi bir kez daha okumana ne dersin? Bu sadece bir deneydir. Çoktan bitti, değil mi? Yoksa ne zaman bittecek bu? Ayrıca, kim senin daha fazla edeceksini bekliyor?

Sanırım hiç kimse yok.

Neden Türkçe'yi seçtiğini hatrlıyorsun sen, değil mi?

Elbette hatrlıyorum.

Artık yetti mi?

Hayır.

Ne kaldı?

Eylemsizlik.

Bu eğlenceli mi? Neden bu şekilde boşuna çalışan kendini zahmet edersin? Aptal mısın?

Bana bir mazoşist falan mı demeye çalışıyorsun? Sanırım bu doğru.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby voron » 2018-03-04, 19:18

Karavinka wrote:Yoksa ne zaman bittecek bu? Ayrıca, kim senin daha fazla edeceksini etmeni bekliyor?

"Etmeni" should be replaced with a meaningful verb (like çalışmanı).

Neden bu şekilde boşuna çalışanrak kendini zahmet edersin?

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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-03-09, 10:29

3481 Kart

Image

This is what happens when you miss a single day. SRS can be brutal. (Well, it's my fault that the max review limit is 999)

Image

I was only able to do ~80 reviews yesterday, despite being my Sunday. I think I'm feeling burnout; new cards ("learn") have dropped sharply the last few days. Let's take things more slowly over the next week. A few of the recent cards might need to be trimmed as well.

The cards vary in length, but in average it comes down to 3-4 sentences per card (conservative estimate), forming a paragraph or a piece of conversation. If a card on average contains 15-25 words, that'd mean 4725-7815 words per day. A paperback novel might contain anywhere between 250-400 words per page (in English at least), and assuming 300 per page, that'd mean 16~26 pages of reading per day.

This is what I've been telling myself. 315 reviews per day sounds intimidating, but reading 20 pages of a paperback novel should be a 15 minute activity, not 2 hours as it has been. There's clearly a lot more work to be done, and maybe I was biting a little more than I could chew.
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Karavinka
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-03-12, 14:29

3544 Kart

Yürüyen Merdiven Birden Bire Ters Yönde Çalıştı! Gezi Grubundaki 8 Öğrenci Yaralandı

Ankara'dan Bursa'ya okul gezisi ile gelen grup bindikleri yürüyen merdivenin birden bire ters yöne çalışmasıyla üst üste devrildi. Yaralanan 7'si öğrenci 8 kişi çığlıklarla hastaneye kaldırıldı.


Zonguldak'ta Gözü Dönmüş Saldırgan, Bıçakla Yoldan Geçen Vatandaşlara Saldırdı

Zonguldak'ta gözü dönmüş saldırgan, elindeki bıçakla önce vatandaşlara sonra da polise saldırdı. Kuruyemişçide saklanan saldırgan vücuduna kesikler atarak polisi kendisinden uzaklaştırmaya çalıştı.


Hatay'da Askeri Araç Devrildi: 1 Askerimiz Şehit Oldu, 2 Askerimiz Yaralandı

Hatay'ın Yayladağı ilçesinde askeri kamyonun devrilmesi sonucu 1 askerimiz şehit oldu, 2 askerimiz yaralandı.


Yunanistan-Türkiye Sınırında İki Alman Gazeteci Gözaltına Alındı

Yunanistan-Türkiye sınırındaki yasak bölgede bulundukları belirtilen iki Alman gazeteci, gözaltına alındı.

Ancak gazetecilerin ARD için çalışıp çalışmadıklarının henüz teyit edilmediği belirtildi. Alman Dışişleri Bakanlığı tarafından Cuma gecesi Berlin'de yapılan açıklamada, vakadan haberdar olunduğu ve sürecin Almanya tarafından "diplomatik olarak yönetildiği" kaydedildi.


Farmable.

Doable.

But not interesting.

How do people even use news as their source and keep the interest?
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Karavinka
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-03-13, 5:20

3588 Kart

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/egit ... landi.html
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/egit ... yacak.html
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/turk ... gilim.html

I take my words back, some articles are kind of interesting. I don't feel like I'm safely in the intermediate level unless I can at least read the news. News is like the common denominator of all literate persons with a certain degree of education. The language is usually straightforward, albeit with some specialized words here and there. Which is also what often makes them boring to read, but I guess one step at a time.

The kind of articles that I find interesting are the ones that show a certain symptom in the society. Say, the cease order on school managers deciding lesson plans unannounced to the teachers -- the fact that this is a newsworthy article means that such was a practice in the Turkish school system, however widespread or marginal it may be (I don't know). While this alone is far from sufficient, multiple reports hinting at the organizational hierarchy in general can converge to form an image. Or the moral guardian in the bus preventing two people from kissing -- nuff said. Nutheads exist everywhere, but if public kissing can trigger a nuthead, then the threshold is pretty low.

I personally don't care much about the traditional cultures. Not even Japan, the "foreign" culture that I have studied the most and feel most intimate. I have no desire to even partake in a tea ceremony for the tourists, I cannot name all the traditional holidays and what they're meant for, and if I go see a kabuki I'll probably fall asleep. What triggers my interest is their modern culture, and the kind of things that the natives would rather not show outsiders.

I don't expect to see interesting things everyday though. Life isn't that perfect. And my understanding of Turkish isn't quite up there yet to survey the country the way I described above. It's getting there, though.

Yavaşça, hala bir çaylaksın. Durumunu bil.
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Re: Spoiler Alert: Turkish (Karavinka)

Postby Karavinka » 2018-03-15, 18:33

Leaving a short note (I'm outside)

Turkish seems to express definiteness in three ways

1. Accusative drop indicates indefinite
2. Plural noun ending for obviously singular (e.g. bir şeyler) is a sign of indefinite or general vagueness
3. Subject in genetive indicates definite

Subject to be reviewed later
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