Turkish Study Group

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-10, 12:31

Sure, sounds good! :y:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-14, 5:51

voron wrote:
Taşınırken ne tür problemler ile karşılaşabilirsiniz? - Aslında bilmiyorum, yirmi üç yıllardır taşınmadım.

Using plural with numbers. :nono:

Oopsie :lol:

Anyway, I tried to do the exercises on p. 9 (without the ya siz? part :P):

1. Kiralık bir ev arıyor.
2. İki ev öneriyor. Bir evin kirası 1000 lira ve metrekaresi daha büyük. Diğerin kirası 1250 lira, deniz manzaralı ve (metro, tramvay, otobüs gibi) ulaşım araçlarına daha yakın.
3. Ulaşım araçlarına yakınlığı bir ev aradığın için 1250 liralık evi görmek istiyor.
4. Belki beğenecek.

And from LangMedia, I learned these words:

gelişmiş - developed
durum - situation, status, condition
hitap - address, salutation
hitap etmek - to address, appeal to
gidip - where you (...) go (I know roughly what gidip means but didn't know it could be used this particular way, especially right after a finite verb)

And from "Bangır Bangır," I learned:
yan - side

yanım - around me
ses - voice, sound, letter

I also forgot that kalabalık means 'crowded'. :pff:
bağırmak - to shout

son ses - at full blast
bangır bangır - loudly (bangır bangır bağırmak, bangır bangır çalmak)
tutmak - to hold, keep

Forgot about tutmak in this context, too. I've only seen it in the context of a cartoon on learnpracticalturkish.com where this guy is talking about literally holding a horse. :P
ağzı bozuk - profine (ağzı bozukluk - profanity)
saldırmak - to attack

uyandırmak - to wake up (tr.; intr. uyanmak)

garanti bilmek - to take for granted
havalanmak - to lift, take off; to act flirtatiously
yürek - heart
yemiş - fruit (?)
sanki - as if, like
güvenmek - to trust
evladım - son, boy
etkisiz - ineffective
eleman - element, component

kaldırmak - remove, lift

teslim - surrender, delivery (teslim olmak - to surrender, ar. تسليم, ur. تسلیم)
etraf - surroundings (cognate to ur. اطراف, from ar. أطراف; synonyms taraflar, yanlar)
sarılı - wrapped, covered
sabret! - be patient! (related to ur. صبر کرنا?)

Yeah, I think it's a contraction of sabır et! Tureng translates it as 'hold your horses!'.
af çıksın sana - not sure about the construction here

af - forgiveness
af çıkmak - for amnesty/forgiveness to be granted
Af çıksın! - May amnesty/forgiveness be granted!
(And of course, sana is just 'to you').

Cool song btw :D

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-07-14, 7:26

I don't think I'm going to have time to do any Turkish this week. :?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-14, 12:36

It's okay, we can just postpone it until the next time you do have time. :)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-13, 8:16

All right, so what do we do for Turkish next and by when? :whistle:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-13, 9:24

vijayjohn wrote:All right, so what do we do for Turkish next and by when? :whistle:


Shouldn't I catch up to you first?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-13, 14:14

Oh OK, sure! :)

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-19, 8:55

Music for Many Tastes (paragraph 1)

gelişmiş - developed
hitap etmek - to address, appeal to
içki - drink (alcoholic)
canlı - alive, live (canlı müzik - live music)

EDIT: Actually, I might just finish it. It's not as hard as I thought it would be.

beri - since
geleneksel - traditional
gürültüsüz - silent
saygılı - respectful

vijayjohn wrote:gidip - where you (...) go (I know roughly what gidip means but didn't know it could be used this particular way, especially right after a finite verb)


I think gidip has roughly the same meaning as Urdu جاکے (i.e. "go and + verb"). -ip is a suffix appended on the verb root gid- for gitmek.

EDIT: Voron already explained this in my Turkish thread:

voron wrote:It's not a tense, it's a subordinating suffix. It is just a native Turkish way of saying "and" for verbs* (given that "ve" is an Arabic borrowing):
Gidip gördüm - I went and saw, alıp satacağım - I will buy and sell.

In other words, 'ip' replaces any tense/aspect/modality suffixes in a sequence of conjoined verbs. Only the last verb in the sequence carries the suffixes.

*For nouns, you have "ile": elmayla armut - apples and pears

An interesting parallel with Russian. You know in Russian we have 3 aspects for the verbs of motion, of which 2 are distinguished, in particular, by whether you went just one way or there and back. So, я пошёл is "I went (and possibly didn't return)" and я сходил is "I went and returned". I noticed that in Turkish, my friends routinely used this "ip" construction exactly where I would use the "there and back" Russian verb:
Я схожу в мазагин - Dükkana gidip geleceğim.


Istanbul p.9

camındaki - ?
mevki - position, location
gezdirmek - to show around
Last edited by Saim on 2018-08-19, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-19, 11:02

Saim wrote:camındaki - ?

Cam is glass or window, so camındaki is 'in your/his/her window'; but I couldn't find this word in the text on p.9.

vijayjohn wrote:3. Ulaşım araçlarına yakınlığı bir ev aradığın için 1250 liralık evi görmek istiyor.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-19, 13:08

voron wrote:
Saim wrote:camındaki - ?

Cam is glass or window, so camındaki is 'in your/his/her window'; but I couldn't find this word in the text on p.9.


"Dükkânınızın camındaki ev ilanlarını görüp geldim."

Oh, "I came after seeing the ads for houses in your store's window". :lol:

cam - window
dükkânınızın camın - your store's window
dükkânınızın camında - in your store's window
dükkânınızın camındaki - (something that is) in your store's window (i.e. adjectival form)
dükkânınızın camındaki ilanlar - the advertisements in your store's window

Yes?

Suggestions for what to do next:

-another LangMedia video
-a Euronews article
-p.10 of the Istanbul textbook

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-19, 14:31

Saim wrote:"Dükkânınızın camındaki ev ilanlarını görüp geldim."

Oh ok, I must be having a different edition where they simplified the sentence.
Image

Oh, "I came after seeing the ads for houses in your store's window".

cam - window
dükkânınızın camın - your store's window
dükkânınızın camında - in your store's window
dükkânınızın camındaki - (something that is) in your store's window (i.e. adjectival form)
dükkânınızın camındaki ilanlar - the advertisements in your store's window

Yes?

:yep:

Suggestions for what to do next:

How about a song? :) I heard this on the beach yesterday and I liked it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcjoGIoErdE

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-20, 5:45

voron wrote:How about a song? :) I heard this on the beach yesterday and I liked it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcjoGIoErdE


I like it too! But I dunno if I want to bore Vijay with some more rap since our last Urdu activity was also a rap verse.

vijayjohn wrote:


What do you think?

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-20, 6:23

Oh, that's okay! We can do another rap song! :D I mean, our approach in both study groups is pretty much the same no matter what kind of resource we're dealing with anyway...it's basically identifying new vocab (and sometimes also translating into English). :)

It's pretty hard for me to be bored with anything as long as languages are involved anyway. :lol: (Except grammars or something, but then it can't be easy to write a grammar, either, so then they sort of took the effort to make me bored :silly:).
Saim wrote:I think gidip has roughly the same meaning as Urdu جاکے (i.e. "go and + verb"). -ip is a suffix appended on the verb root gid- for gitmek.

I know, but here, it seems that the meaning is slightly different...or maybe I'm just misled by the English translation. Idk. :P

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-20, 8:59

Ok, great!

vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:I think gidip has roughly the same meaning as Urdu جاکے (i.e. "go and + verb"). -ip is a suffix appended on the verb root gid- for gitmek.

I know, but here, it seems that the meaning is slightly different...or maybe I'm just misled by the English translation. Idk. :P


gidip dinleyebilirsiniz.

You can go and listen.

آپ (اُدھر) جاکے (ترکی موسیقی) سُن سکتے ہیں۔

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-20, 9:34

Right, but the phrase that threw me off was a different one:

Örneğin yabancı müzikler çalan diskolar var gidip dans edebileceğiniz...
For example there are discos that play foreign music where you can go at night and dance...

Now that I'm looking at it again, I think maybe it's the word order that threw me off. I would have expected something more like örneğin gidip dans edebileceğiniz yabancı müzikler çalan diskolar var, but maybe the subordinate clause in this sentence is long enough to be postposed. :hmm: Or maybe it's because there are two clauses (that play foreign music where...), and if this particular clause wasn't postposed, it could sound like it was referring to müzikler rather than diskolar (she's saying you can dance at the discos rather than dance at the music, not that it makes much of a difference in this context, but still). :idea:

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-20, 10:26

I don't think the where is expressed explicitly anywhere in this sentence. Maybe voron can help explain it.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-20, 10:52

Vijay is right. The normal word order in that sentence should be:
Örneğin gidip dans edebileceğiniz yabancı müzikler çalan diskolar var.

Dans edebileceğiniz is an attribute that modifies the noun diskolar. It normally goes before the noun. She added it after the noun as an afterthought. (Note: it's a participle and not a finite verb in the future tense. The future tense would be: dans edebileceksiniz).

As for the question of whether there is where or not: you guys know that Turkish dik and ecek participles can express all kinds of temporal and spatial relations, so yes, in this sentence we can translate it with where.

Btw when she was saying that meyhaneler have a long history behind them, I thought 'How could they survive certain periods of the Ottoman history when the capital punishment for drinking alcohol was applied?' And then I found an amusing explanation on Wiki:
Some sultans prohibited alcohol at various times but it didn't affect the number of meyhane. While the Muslim population usually complied with the religious rules, no one interfered in the conventions of the minority population. A major part of the minority population lived in Galata and, as a result, there were many meyhane in that district. But there were also many Muslim clients who went there secretly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyhane

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby voron » 2018-08-20, 11:32

voron wrote:How about a song? :) I heard this on the beach yesterday and I liked it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcjoGIoErdE

There is a nice saying used in this song that I didn't know.
oynayan aç ayı yok


The saying is: aç ayı oynamaz, literally, a hungry bear doesn't dance.
http://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/a ... 20ay%C4%B1

That is, there is no one who would do work without being fed (and paid) first.

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-20, 20:52

voron wrote:She added it after the noun as an afterthought.

This is actually really interesting to me. You see, Malayalam has exactly the same construction as the normal Turkish one. It's also possible in Malayalam to leave the relative clause at the end as an afterthought, more or less like in Turkish. However, in Malayalam, you have to do an extra step and leave a pronominal suffix at the end of the verb in the subordinate clause. (I could go into more detail, but only if you want me to because this is the Turkish Study Group, not the Malayalam Study Group! :P).
Btw when she was saying that meyhaneler have a long history behind them, I thought 'How could they survive certain periods of the Ottoman history when the capital punishment for drinking alcohol was applied?' And then I found an amusing explanation on Wiki:
Some sultans prohibited alcohol at various times but it didn't affect the number of meyhane. While the Muslim population usually complied with the religious rules, no one interfered in the conventions of the minority population. A major part of the minority population lived in Galata and, as a result, there were many meyhane in that district. But there were also many Muslim clients who went there secretly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyhane

That's kind of like why most people in Kerala eat beef (by now, almost half the population is either Christian or Muslim).

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Re: Turkish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-08-25, 15:50

The English translation is from the YouTube subtitles.

Montumun cebinde yok kuruş
Zıplıyor herkes kanguru sanki
Full depo Taunus'um
Bi' de kafamıza bass vurur ama yine yok
Bu hayatın heyecanı meycanı yok

No pennies [kuruş - Turkish equivalent of cents, subdivision of lira] in my coat’s pockets.
Everybody’s jumping like they’re kangaroos.
My Taunus’ full of gas
plus bass hits our heads!
But still there is no excitement for this life.
There is no excitement for this life!

mont - coat
kuruş - a subdivision of lira, equivalent to cents
zıplamak - to jump
depo - (here) tank
kafa - head
heyecan - excitement

Hah! Kazan kazan yok kaybed'cek birimiz kaçarı yok
Çocuk çok, yatarım yok, oynayan aç ayı yok
Olmayan façası yok, kurtaran paçayı yok
Gelecek için bir hedefin yok, yarının yok

There is no win-win rule here
One of us will lose, no escape!
You won’t stay long in jail kid
A hungry stomach has no ears.
No one without wound.
No one’s getting off.
No goals for your future.
You’ve no tomorrow!

kazanmak - to win
kaçarı olmayan nokta - point of no escape (kaçmak - to escape)
oynayan - playing?
faça - face
paçayı kurtaran - escaper
hedef - goal

I don't really understand Çocuk çok, yatarım yok, oynayan aç ayı yok/Olmayan façası yok or how it relates to the translation provided.


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