Saim - Malay

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Saim
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Saim - Malay

Postby Saim » 2017-01-17, 15:58

I'll probably go to Brunei twice this year because my mum is currently working there. There they actually speak Brunei Malay, but since there are essentially no resources for it I think I'll take the opportunity to learn some basic Malay (the official language) even though Malay and Brunei Malay aren't really more mutually intelligible than Malay and some of the other Austronesian languages spoken in the region.

I've been trying to get into Malay for the past couple of months, but I just couldn't bring myself to go beyond the second lesson of Routledge Colloquial Malay. Today I tried combining different resources, and I finally enjoyed it and was able to do a couple of hours of it. Below are my notes; I made sure to note down any Arabic and Sanskrit loans and their equivalents in Hindi-Urdu and Punjabi (I'm really surprised at how much Sanskrit there is in there, even grammatically important words like sudah and kerana!).

Routledge Colloquial Malay: 2 ini bukan anak Susan

hendak - to want
sudah - perfective particle (from Sanskrit शुद्ध)
yang - which, the one that

LangMedia - Teaching the Malay Language

haruslah - must
tahu - know

bertutur - speak, converse
bertutur dalam

mengajar - teach (student - pelajar; students - pelajar-pelajar)
tentang - about, regarding
walaupun - although
berlainan - diverse, different (different = berbeza)

bertumpu - focused
bertumpu kepada

mahu - want

merupakan - constitute, be
Rupa (form, appearance; from Sanskrit रूप) along with agent-focus prefix meng- and causative suffix -kan. Cognate to Urdu روپ/रूप and Punjabi روپ/ਰੂਪ.

memberi - give
(memberikan fokus kepada = bertumpu kepada?)

walaubagaimanapun - however
mengabaikan - neglect, overlook

ataupun - or (=atau; pun - also, even)
selain (itu) - besides, furthermore

antarabangsa - international
bangsa - nation; Sanskrit वंश. wangsa - dynasty also comes from वंश. Cognate to Urdu वंश/ونش - race, clan, lineage.
antara means between and comes from Sanskrit अन्तर, which funnily enough is related to the entre of many Romance languages, as well as English inter- and intra-.
kerana - because (from Sanskrit कारण, cognate to Urdu کارن/कारण and Punjabi کارن/ਕਾਰਨ - cause, reason)

kebangsaan - national
and others (and so on?) - dan lain-lain (lain - other)
iaitu - that is to say, namely
sama - same
dengan - with
sama dengan - equal to, same as
mahir - competent, proficient, skillful (cognate to Urdu ماہر/माहिर, from Arabic ماهر)
mempunyai (meng- + punya) - have, possess
tersendiri - individual, respective

Faizal Tahir - Bukan Yang Pertama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQWcvu_-uE
https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/Faiza ... ng-Pertama

kau - you (=anda?)
pertama - first, primary
kedua - second
hanya - only
terkini - latest (kini - now, current)
terakhir - last (from Arabic أخر)
selamanya - forever
tunggu - wait
dengar - hear
dahulu - before
jangan - do not
begitu - like that
berlalu - pass
cerita - story
dulu - first, formerly, before
diriku - me, myself
namun - however
ku - my (=saya?)
sewaktu - when (from Arabic وقت)
hati - heart
bagai - like, as if (~macam?)
pasti - certainly
kisah - story, legend, tale
mu - your (=anda?)

dah = sudah
biar - let, allow
lalu, berlalu - pass
yang dah lalu biar berlalu
that-which perfective pass let habitual-pass
Let what’s in the past stay in the past.

gadis - girl
perlu - need (tidak perlu - unnecessary)

sempurna - perfect, complete
I suspect this is cognate to Urdu پورا/पूरा and Punjabi پورا/ਪੂਰਾ (whole, entire, complete) which is from Sanskrit पुरण (filled, whole, fulfilled). According to Wiktionary this is also cognate to Germanic full/vol/voll, Romance plein/ple/lleno/pieno/cheio/plin and Slavic pun/pełny/полный/повний/poln.

menilai - judge, appraise
terburu - rush

jadikan - to turn into (transitive)
jadi (to become) + transitive suffix -kan. jadi comes from Sanskrit जाति, which means birth, rebirth or caste. Cognate to Urdu جاتی/जाति and Punjabi جاتی/ਜਾਤੀ (caste, community).

ratu - queen, monarch
hidup - life
menyakiti - hurt, inflict pain
disakiti - be hurt

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby Saim » 2017-01-18, 8:03

Faizal Tahir - Assalamualaikum

lihat - see
mengapa - why
bunuh - kill
kaca - glass (kaca TV = TV screen?)
darah - blood
air mata - tears (air - water, mata - eye)
agama - religion
jiwa - soul (probably cognate to Urdu جیون/जीवन and جیو/जीव and Punjabi جیون/ਜੀਵਨ and جیو/ਜੀਵ)
terasa - feel (from Sanskrit रस sap, juice, liquid, feeling; cognate to Urdu رس/रस juice and Punjabi رس/ਰਸ juice)
bakar - burn

terima - accept, receive
terima kasih means thank you, literally receive care

sahaja - only, just
bangunlah - get up, arise
diri kita - ourselves
serupa - similar, alike
damai - peace
manusia - human, humanity (from Sanskrit मनुष्य, cognate to Urdu مانو/मानव and مانس/मानस and Marathi माणूस, maybe also Punjabi منُکّھ/ਮਨੁੱਖ and منُکّھتا/ਮਨੁੱਖਤਾ)

bersaudara - relative, fraternal
warna - colour (from Sanskrit वर्ण, Urdu ورن/वर्ण; race, caste)
kulit - skin
kaum - community, ethnic roup (from Arabic قوم nation/people, cognate to Urdu قوم/कौम and Punjabi قوم/ਕੌਮ)
adakah - whether, interrogative particle
asal usul - origin
mengatasi - overcome, surpass
untuk - to, for

bersalah - guilty
selalu - always
leka - careless
ampuni - forgive
berdosa - sin
berubah - change
hari ini - today

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby eskandar » 2017-01-21, 18:52

Since you linked to it in your signature I thought I'd check out your Malay thread. It's a language I've long wanted to learn but probably won't ever get the chance to. It's cool to see all the Sanskrit and Arabic loans.

Saim wrote:kisah - story, legend, tale

cf. Arabic قصة , also used in Urdu and Punjabi.

sempurna - perfect, complete
I suspect this is cognate to Urdu پورا/पूरा and Punjabi پورا/ਪੂਰਾ (whole, entire, complete) which is from Sanskrit पुरण (filled, whole, fulfilled). According to Wiktionary this is also cognate to Germanic full/vol/voll, Romance plein/ple/lleno/pieno/cheio/plin and Slavic pun/pełny/полный/повний/poln.

Seems your suspicion is correct!

asal usul - origin

cf. Arabic اصل اصول , also used in Urdu and Punjabi.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby Saim » 2017-01-26, 9:00

eskandar wrote:Since you linked to it in your signature I thought I'd check out your Malay thread. It's a language I've long wanted to learn but probably won't ever get the chance to.


I'm not going to focus much on it either, because I want to put more time into Arabic and Turkish. Just thought it would be a good idea to get the basics down given that I've got the opportunity to visit the region.

It's cool to see all the Sanskrit and Arabic loans.


Yeah, it's awesome. I didn't expect there to be this much Sanskrit.

cf. Arabic قصة , also used in Urdu and Punjabi.
[...]
Seems your suspicion is correct!
[...]
cf. Arabic اصل اصول , also used in Urdu and Punjabi.


Thanks!

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby voron » 2017-02-07, 14:38

Faizal Tahir - Bukan Yang Pertama
Faizal Tahir - Assalamualaikum

Cool songs, I like them!
(My friends and I are considering visiting Indonesia this summer, so... some Indonesian may prove useful :))

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby eskandar » 2017-02-09, 0:54

Sanskrit Loanwords in Indonesian (found in this Wordreference thread).
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-03-24, 19:13

Isn't it neat how many Sanskrit loanwords there are in Malay/Indonesian? Malay is even crazier that way than Malayalam is. :P There's a lot of it in other Southeast Asian languages, too, but not quite this much, I don't think. India has been influencing Indonesia/Malaysia for a long time! (And now on top of it all, there are Indian immigrants there, too, especially in Malaysia).

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby eskandar » 2017-04-17, 19:35

Another stray observation about Sanskrit and Malay: it occurred to me that the capital of Brunei, Bandar Seri Begawan, sounded like it must have been derived from "Sri Bhagwan." Turns out...that's exactly right! Meanwhile "bandar" is originally from Persian.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby Meera » 2017-04-30, 16:31

Hey Saim!! You are learning Malay? That is awesome! How do you like the colloquial?
अहिंसा/เจ
True Love: (hi)
TAC 2017: (hi) (ja) (ko)

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-15, 3:07

Saim Bhai, I'm not sure whether this is going to be useful to you at all since I don't even see any variety of Malay on your profile. :hmm: But I'd like to comment on this stuff anyway (even though I probably should've done this earlier!):
Saim wrote:Below are my notes; I made sure to note down any Arabic and Sanskrit loans and their equivalents in Hindi-Urdu and Punjabi (I'm really surprised at how much Sanskrit there is in there, even grammatically important words like sudah and kerana!).

I'm going to try to help you find some more. :)

Yeah, Southeast Asia in general has been heavily influenced by contact with Tamil-speakers for 2,000 years, and the earliest contact I'm aware of was with a kingdom located in modern-day Malaysia.
sudah - perfective particle (from Sanskrit शुद्ध)

You might've already known this, but this is also where Hindi सुधा, Urdu سدھا, and Punjabi ਸੁੱਧ/سدّھ come from.
mengajar - teach (student - pelajar; students - pelajar-pelajar)

(Meng)ajar 'to teach' comes from Sanskrit आचार्य and exists in Hindi as आचार्य and (alternatively) आचार्य्य (both tatsams) as well as अचारज (tadbhav); in Urdu as آچاريا, آچاريه, and اچارج; and in Punjabi as ਅਚਾਰਜ/اچارج.
walaupun - although

From Arabic ولو
different = berbeza

From Sanskrit भेद 'cleft, fissure, division, separation, distinction', attested in Hindi as भेद, भेव, and भेवा; in Urdu as بهيد, بهيو, and بهيوا; and in Punjabi as ਅਭੇਵ/ابهيو 'open, manifest, without distinction or separation; indistinguishable, having no difference; indivisible' and ਭੇਦ/بهيد 'secret, mystery, difference'
kepada

Pada 'at' comes from Sanskrit पाद 'foot', which of course is where the Hindi, Urdu, and Punjabi words for 'foot' come from.
walaubagaimanapun - however

Bagai 'as if, like' apparently comes from Sanskrit भाग 'part'. Only Punjabi has a tadbhav coming from this word: ਭਾ/بها.
sama - same

From Sanskrit सम 'same, equal' - compare English and the Slavic languages!
mempunyai (meng- + punya) - have, possess

Punya comes from पुण्य 'merit, virtue', attested in Hindi as पूण, पुनम, and पुण्य; in Urdu as پنم ,پون, and پنيه; and in Punjabi as ਪੁੱਨ/پنً 'alms, charity', ਪੁੰਨਾਵਰ/پنًاور 'virtuous, good, holy, pious', and ਪੁੱਨਿਆ 'full moon' (not sure how to write this in Shahmukhi, maybe پنًيه?).
kau - you (=anda?)

There are many words for 'you' in Indonesian and Malay depending on who is talking to who. Kau is short for engkau, which is an informal word for 'you'; Everyday Indonesian says it's used "for addressing children, close friends, or social inferiors." It's a bit like tu in Hindi/Urdu in that it's also used in poetry and songs and for addressing God, in which case it's capitalized (Engkau). Anda is a neutral word for 'you'.
pertama - first, primary

From Sanskrit प्रथम
begitu - like that

I wonder whether this might be from bagai itu.
cerita - story

From Sanskrit चरित
bagai - like, as if (~macam?)

Apparently from Sanskrit भाग 'part'. Only Punjabi has a tadbhav coming from this word: ਭਾ/بها.
kisah - story, legend, tale

From Arabic قصة, of course ;)
mu - your (=anda?)

No, this is short for kamu, which AFAIK is just as informal as (eng)kau.
sempurna - perfect, complete
I suspect this is cognate to Urdu پورا/पूरा and Punjabi پورا/ਪੂਰਾ (whole, entire, complete) which is from Sanskrit पुरण (filled, whole, fulfilled). According to Wiktionary this is also cognate to Germanic full/vol/voll, Romance plein/ple/lleno/pieno/cheio/plin and Slavic pun/pełny/полный/повний/poln.

Yes, this is cognate to those Urdu and Punjabi words, but they come from Sanskrit पूर, not *पुरण. *पुरण doesn't exist in Sanskrit. :) Sempurna comes from Sanskrit संपूर्ण 'completely filled'.
menilai - judge, appraise

Okay, this probably isn't really going to help you, but nilai is a Tamil loanword. :)

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby eskandar » 2017-10-15, 3:46

Your etymological remarks are making me wanderlust the shit out of Malay :doggy:
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Saim - Malay

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-10-15, 5:34

Do iiiit, do iiiit! :twisted:

Don't do it! Don't do it! :angel:


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